Class of 2013 Employment Data Forum

[Doug_Johnson]

University of Arizona:

8.7% + 2.0% = 10.7%

[Sinatra]

Can we get this stickied?

[09042014]

Can we get this stickied?

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[Otunga]

Since 20% of UVA's grads do PI, would it be justified to say UVA's 'potential' fed clerk/biglaw percentage is closer to 70% than 60%? I'd think it'd be able to match Cornell's 68%, for instance, if NYC biglaw were as emphasized. Thoughts?

[bdubs]

Since 20% of UVA's grads do PI, would it be justified to say UVA's 'potential' fed clerk/biglaw percentage is closer to 70% than 60%? I'd think it'd be able to match Cornell's 68%, for instance, if NYC biglaw were as emphasized. Thoughts?

Pretty much anyone who wants to do PI should have tried to land a federal clerkship. I'm sure there are exceptions but it seems like the vast majority should have at least applied if they were competitive.

[jbagelboy]

Since 20% of UVA's grads do PI, would it be justified to say UVA's 'potential' fed clerk/biglaw percentage is closer to 70% than 60%? I'd think it'd be able to match Cornell's 68%, for instance, if NYC biglaw were as emphasized. Thoughts?

Nah, since most of that 20% are school funded gigs. I'm sure the two schools are considered peers by NYC firms, though.

[rayiner]

Since 20% of UVA's grads do PI, would it be justified to say UVA's 'potential' fed clerk/biglaw percentage is closer to 70% than 60%? I'd think it'd be able to match Cornell's 68%, for instance, if NYC biglaw were as emphasized. Thoughts?

Nah, since most of that 20% are school funded gigs. I'm sure the two schools are considered peers by NYC firms, though.

16% of UVA's class was in school-funded jobs. These apparently pay $30k/year (except for the one Powell fellowship awarded each year, which pays $40k). I would imagine students would not take these if they had real full-time PI/Gov positions on the table, because $30k is a low salary even for public sector jobs.

There's more in play than whether NYC firms consider the two schools peers (which they almost certainly do). OCI slots per student and callback slots per student matters. A firm will generally sign up for say 20-40 screening interviews, and tell interviewers to give say 5-10 callbacks. What generally hurts bigger schools like UVA is that firms don't necessarily account for the fact that UVA has almost twice as many people in each class as Cornell. They may allocate 10 target callbacks at each, or say 10 at Cornell and 15 at UVA.

I imagine the other issue is that UVA grads are more likely to target the tough DC market than Cornell grads.

[hcrimson2014]

I'd venture to say 50% of TLS is hoping for a market correction (or ABA action) that eliminates these TTT(T) schools entirely.

Amen to that, everyone's life would be easier with 100 instead 200 certified law schools.

[Otunga]

Since 20% of UVA's grads do PI, would it be justified to say UVA's 'potential' fed clerk/biglaw percentage is closer to 70% than 60%? I'd think it'd be able to match Cornell's 68%, for instance, if NYC biglaw were as emphasized. Thoughts?

Nah, since most of that 20% are school funded gigs. I'm sure the two schools are considered peers by NYC firms, though.

16% of UVA's class was in school-funded jobs. These apparently pay $30k/year (except for the one Powell fellowship awarded each year, which pays $40k). I would imagine students would not take these if they had real full-time PI/Gov positions on the table, because $30k is a low salary even for public sector jobs.

There's more in play than whether NYC firms consider the two schools peers (which they almost certainly do). OCI slots per student and callback slots per student matters. A firm will generally sign up for say 20-40 screening interviews, and tell interviewers to give say 5-10 callbacks. What generally hurts bigger schools like UVA is that firms don't necessarily account for the fact that UVA has almost twice as many people in each class as Cornell. They may allocate 10 target callbacks at each, or say 10 at Cornell and 15 at UVA.

I imagine the other issue is that UVA grads are more likely to target the tough DC market than Cornell grads.

Right. I'm after Boston/NYC firms. At comparable cost, I'd prefer to pick UVA over Cornell due to "Charlottesville seems better than Ithaca" thoughts, but the larger class size is problematic. Granted, after looking at the Boston firms listed on NALP database, I found that more come to UVA than to Cornell. In fact, it looks like as somebody pursuing Boston, I'd have to do the Cornell job fair in Boston in addition to OCI. But I'm from the area so that's not a downside if I'm doing 1L summer here.

I was just thinking that these people getting the school fellowship jobs were predominantly pursuing PI to begin with, as getting PI work appears to require demonstrated commitment, "belief in the cause" and so forth. As a counterpoint, since UVA is paying the grads and not the employers, it seems like they'd take anybody remotely competent, forget about "belief in the cause" and proven interest, etc.

[worldtraveler]

Since 20% of UVA's grads do PI, would it be justified to say UVA's 'potential' fed clerk/biglaw percentage is closer to 70% than 60%? I'd think it'd be able to match Cornell's 68%, for instance, if NYC biglaw were as emphasized. Thoughts?

Pretty much anyone who wants to do PI should have tried to land a federal clerkship. I'm sure there are exceptions but it seems like the vast majority should have at least applied if they were competitive.

Really not sure where you're getting this. For somebody who wants to work at legal aid a federal clerkship wouldn't do much for you.

[bdubs]

Since 20% of UVA's grads do PI, would it be justified to say UVA's 'potential' fed clerk/biglaw percentage is closer to 70% than 60%? I'd think it'd be able to match Cornell's 68%, for instance, if NYC biglaw were as emphasized. Thoughts?

Pretty much anyone who wants to do PI should have tried to land a federal clerkship. I'm sure there are exceptions but it seems like the vast majority should have at least applied if they were competitive.

Really not sure where you're getting this. For somebody who wants to work at legal aid a federal clerkship wouldn't do much for you.

Seems like many T14 "public interest" people want things like civil rights, environmental, freedom of speech, immigration, labor rights, etc... that are sexy, federal issues. Sure, for those who really want to do PD type work it probably makes little sense to do a federal clerkship, but my impression is that this is a minority of T14 grads who express a PI interest.

Also, the financial disincentive for an uninterested biglaw bound student doesn't exist. The pay will probably be equivalent or higher for a clerk than it would be for a PI bound student.

[chuckbass]

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Careers/prospect ... f_2013.pdf
GW is up:

32.8% in biglaw/fed clerkships

[mickey_mouse]

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Careers/prospect ... f_2013.pdf
GW is up:

32.8% in biglaw/fed clerkships

89/603 (14.7%) are school-funded, for those interested.

[jenesaislaw]

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Careers/prospect ... f_2013.pdf
GW is up:

32.8% in biglaw/fed clerkships

89/603 (14.7%) are school-funded, for those interested.

GW's LT, FT BPR school-funded jobs account for over 11.35% of all LT, FT BPR school-funded jobs for the class of 2013. Kind of shocking, especially compared to the 1.77% of all LT, FT BPR jobs GW accounts for.

[notactuallyposting]

So I mean, I've made my decision already, but really... Where are berkeley's employment numbers? Is there a due date?

[The Dark Shepard]

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Careers/prospect ... f_2013.pdf
GW is up:

32.8% in biglaw/fed clerkships

89/603 (14.7%) are school-funded, for those interested.

GW's LT, FT BPR school-funded jobs account for over 11.35% of all LT, FT BPR school-funded jobs for the class of 2013. Kind of shocking, especially compared to the 1.77% of all LT, FT BPR jobs GW accounts for.

I don't think it has the highest percentage of it's graduating class though. William and Mary's was pretty high too

[jenesaislaw]

So I mean, I've made my decision already, but really... Where are berkeley's employment numbers? Is there a due date?

55.8% for fed clerk + 101+.

[arklaw13]

So I mean, I've made my decision already, but really... Where are berkeley's employment numbers? Is there a due date?

55.8% for fed clerk + 101+.

Ouch. almost a 5% hit.

[jenesaislaw]

http://www.law.gwu.edu/Careers/prospect ... f_2013.pdf
GW is up:

32.8% in biglaw/fed clerkships

89/603 (14.7%) are school-funded, for those interested.

GW's LT, FT BPR school-funded jobs account for over 11.35% of all LT, FT BPR school-funded jobs for the class of 2013. Kind of shocking, especially compared to the 1.77% of all LT, FT BPR jobs GW accounts for.

I don't think it has the highest percentage of it's graduating class though. William and Mary's was pretty high too

I see how I was ambiguous. GW was responsible for 11.35% of all LT, FT BPR school-funded jobs across all law schools.

[lecsa]

So I mean, I've made my decision already, but really... Where are berkeley's employment numbers? Is there a due date?

55.8% for fed clerk + 101+.

Ouch. almost a 5% hit.

Yeah, ouch. Is Berkeley's info on the website?

[whereskyle]

So I mean, I've made my decision already, but really... Where are berkeley's employment numbers? Is there a due date?

55.8% for fed clerk + 101+.

What's the split? Was this Berk class uninterested in firm work?

[Mack.Hambleton]

a 5% hit isn't that bad since Berkeley is relatively small. That's a difference of like 12 people getting firm jobs or not

[arklaw13]

a 5% hit isn't that bad since Berkeley is relatively small. That's a difference of like 12 people getting firm jobs or not

Berkeley's class is like 300 people >.>

Not H or GULC, by any means, but neither is it small.

The concern isn't necessarily the 5% drop. It's the 5% drop when similarly ranked schools have better jobs numbers than the previous year. This puts B lower than Michigan in terms of biglaw + fed clerkship percentage. If we're shitting on Michigan for poor performance, I don't see how we can absolve Berkeley.

[20141023]

.

[jbagelboy]

You sure that's 101+ AND fed clerks?

Damn Cali, you fuckin' wit me.