Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School Forum

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

I understood what you were trying to imply with your post, I just don't think one person proves it. I also think that BL+FC numbers go a long way in proxying name recognition in the legal community (as the most "preftegious" outcomes, they require a degree viewed positively by the hiring body).

[Nebby]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

I understood what you were trying to imply with your post, I just don't think one person proves it. I also think that BL+FC numbers go a long way in proxying name recognition in the legal community (as the most "preftegious" outcomes, they require a degree viewed positively by the hiring body).

ok

[Thelaw23]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

How many presidents has Columbia law graduated? Oh and hows your clerkship numbers?

Before I started looking into law schools I thought Duke was like a basketball school. I honestly had no idea it had academic prestige.


UVA I just always imagined baseball and kegs for some reason

Michigan reminds me of Harry Potter just because of their library.

[Thelaw23]

I was at a birthday last weekend and was telling a friend about the administration problems I've had with Columbia Law. This girl butts in and says "Well it makes sense since Columbia is on the lower end of the Ivys... Now if it was Cornell it would be a different story"

???????????????????????????

...I mean she's not wrong...out of the ivies with law schools, YLS, HLS and Cornell are all higher geographically than Columbia. Penn is the lowest.

Also Cornell is like 760 feet above sea level. Columbia? 34. Totally lower end.

I was at a birthday last weekend and was telling a friend about the administration problems I've had with Columbia Law. This girl butts in and says "Well it makes sense since Columbia is on the lower end of the Ivys... Now if it was Cornell it would be a different story"

???????????????????????????

...I mean she's not wrong...out of the ivies with law schools, YLS, HLS and Cornell are all higher geographically than Columbia. Penn is the lowest.

I love you guys

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

How many presidents has Columbia law graduated? Oh and hows your clerkship numbers?

Before I started looking into law schools I thought Duke was like a basketball school. I honestly had no idea it had academic prestige.


UVA I just always imagined baseball and kegs for some reason

Michigan reminds me of Harry Potter just because of their library.

Sure, but let's not fall back into a lay preftige argument, this is legal employment, let's stay squarely in the legal field.

Now, as a 0L you see the academic strength of all of those schools, yes?

[Thelaw23]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

How many presidents has Columbia law graduated? Oh and hows your clerkship numbers?

Before I started looking into law schools I thought Duke was like a basketball school. I honestly had no idea it had academic prestige.


UVA I just always imagined baseball and kegs for some reason

Michigan reminds me of Harry Potter just because of their library.

Sure, but let's not fall back into a lay preftige argument, this is legal employment, let's stay squarely in the legal field.

Now, as a 0L you see the academic strength of all of those schools, yes?

I'm just saying I had a very lay-person look at it when I just started the process and what I thought. I didn't aim at prestigious UG schools at all when I finished high school so I was pretty oblivious to everything.

Also growing up in the northeast has a lot to do with it.


But yeah with law school prestige, who knows. I think schools really need to be scared of losing their rankings so they don't get too comfortable and start not giving a crap (ahem cls ahem)

Then there's GULC who loses rankings and still doesn't give a crap



Also, this may sound completely retarded but I felt like Duke University or Duke sounds a lot like "take a duke"

[lawlzschool]

IVY League LST breakout
………………..Employ% • Big Law%

UPENN 89.8 • 66.3
CORNELL 89.6 • 62.8
COLUMBIA 87.2 • 73.6
HARVARD 85.7 • 51.8
YALE 81.2 • 38.5

Where's Princeton Law bruh

this past week i had someone ask me why i didnt apply to princeton law

"because... it doesn't...exist...?"

[PeanutsNJam]

Nebby could you add:

WashU: 45.1% [33.8%] (+11.3%)
UT Austin: 45.0% [45.8%] (-0.8%)

[registering]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

I understood what you were trying to imply with your post, I just don't think one person proves it. I also think that BL+FC numbers go a long way in proxying name recognition in the legal community (as the most "preftegious" outcomes, they require a degree viewed positively by the hiring body).

I mean, the percentages we're talking about are pretty trivial. It's not like the difference between Berkeley and Penn or something where 15% separates them - a 5% difference isn't going to make people see Duke as that much more prestigious. That's on top of the fact that BL+FC is just a TLS thing and not an actual industry metric, and on top of the fact that NYU has over twice as many students in each class compared to Duke.

[proteinshake]

even if NYU has more name recognition, does that really mean Duke (or another "less recognized" school) can't pass it in the rankings? I'm sure GULC has more name recognition than UT, and yet...

that being said I don't think Duke is gonna pass NYU just yet

[BigZuck]

Nebby could you add:

WashU: 45.1% [33.8%] (+11.3%)
UT Austin: 45.0% [45.8%] (-0.8%)

Actually just go ahead and leave UT off the list

Thanks!

[Tiny Rick!]

Nebby could you add:

WashU: 45.1% [33.8%] (+11.3%)
UT Austin: 45.0% [45.8%] (-0.8%)

Actually just go ahead and leave UT off the list

Thanks!

You should change your name to BigCuck

[BigZuck]

Nebby could you add:

WashU: 45.1% [33.8%] (+11.3%)
UT Austin: 45.0% [45.8%] (-0.8%)

Actually just go ahead and leave UT off the list

Thanks!

You should change your name to BigCuck

Good1 Tiny Rick!

(I loled 4 serious though)

[Nebby]

Thanks for helping me update. I've been getting swamped at work and too lazy to do all the bbcoding

[RParadela]

I find it really hard to believe that any big law firms dont know that Duke has a law school

[Dr.Degrees_Cr.Cash]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

I understood what you were trying to imply with your post, I just don't think one person proves it. I also think that BL+FC numbers go a long way in proxying name recognition in the legal community (as the most "preftegious" outcomes, they require a degree viewed positively by the hiring body).

I mean, the percentages we're talking about are pretty trivial. It's not like the difference between Berkeley and Penn or something where 15% separates them - a 5% difference isn't going to make people see Duke as that much more prestigious. That's on top of the fact that BL+FC is just a TLS thing and not an actual industry metric, and on top of the fact that NYU has over twice as many students in each class compared to Duke.

The argument is that NYU is more prestigious, not almost as prestigious. No one said BL + FC was an industry metric, but those prospects are the two most sought after positions and do drive USNW ranking.

Finally how do so many people have problems with percentages? Class size is unimportant when we discuss these things.

[TexasENG]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

I understood what you were trying to imply with your post, I just don't think one person proves it. I also think that BL+FC numbers go a long way in proxying name recognition in the legal community (as the most "preftegious" outcomes, they require a degree viewed positively by the hiring body).

I mean, the percentages we're talking about are pretty trivial. It's not like the difference between Berkeley and Penn or something where 15% separates them - a 5% difference isn't going to make people see Duke as that much more prestigious. That's on top of the fact that BL+FC is just a TLS thing and not an actual industry metric, and on top of the fact that NYU has over twice as many students in each class compared to Duke.

The argument is that NYU is more prestigious, not almost as prestigious. No one said BL + FC was an industry metric, but those prospects are the two most sought after positions and do drive USNW ranking.

Finally how do so many people have problems with percentages? Class size is unimportant when we discuss these things.

Class size = more people in the field. NYU graduates almost 2x Duke students, so that means 2x NYU grads in the law to add to prestige.

[grades??]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

I understood what you were trying to imply with your post, I just don't think one person proves it. I also think that BL+FC numbers go a long way in proxying name recognition in the legal community (as the most "preftegious" outcomes, they require a degree viewed positively by the hiring body).

I mean, the percentages we're talking about are pretty trivial. It's not like the difference between Berkeley and Penn or something where 15% separates them - a 5% difference isn't going to make people see Duke as that much more prestigious. That's on top of the fact that BL+FC is just a TLS thing and not an actual industry metric, and on top of the fact that NYU has over twice as many students in each class compared to Duke.

The argument is that NYU is more prestigious, not almost as prestigious. No one said BL + FC was an industry metric, but those prospects are the two most sought after positions and do drive USNW ranking.

Finally how do so many people have problems with percentages? Class size is unimportant when we discuss these things.

Class size = more people in the field. NYU graduates almost 2x Duke students, so that means 2x NYU grads in the law to add to prestige.

isn't that the unprestigious school judge judy graduated from?

[cavalier1138]

What are the odds that Duke (77.7%) and UVA (76.9%) pass NYU (74.5%) in the rankings in the next few years?

Assuming you're serious, no chance at all.

[proleteriate]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

isn't that the unprestigious school judge judy graduated from?

lol no, she went to NYLS, not NYU.

[goldenbear2020]

I find it really hard to believe that any big law firms dont know that Duke has a law school

+1. Certainly nobody in biglaw with any hiring input.

[grades??]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

isn't that the unprestigious school judge judy graduated from?

lol no, she went to NYLS, not NYU.

I know, but the point being NYU is as prestigious as NYLS.

[slurp]

USC up. 40%

[registering]

A friend of mine who went to Duke told me when she was interviewing for a competitive post grad job in NY the lawyer said: "Duke has a law school?"

That's why it won't knock off NYU.

Was this in PI? based on your word choice I'm assuming so. I'm not really sure one person in PI (sounds like not a firm) forgetting about them is why they can never jump NYU

Would be cool if we could see an empirical study of how the degrees are viewed by employers. Maybe some percentage indicating how well all students did when trying to get competitive post grad positions or something like that....

I don't think you understood the point of my post. My point was that Duke has less name recognition in the legal community at large, and name recognition is one of the primary factors in the USNWR.

I understood what you were trying to imply with your post, I just don't think one person proves it. I also think that BL+FC numbers go a long way in proxying name recognition in the legal community (as the most "preftegious" outcomes, they require a degree viewed positively by the hiring body).

I mean, the percentages we're talking about are pretty trivial. It's not like the difference between Berkeley and Penn or something where 15% separates them - a 5% difference isn't going to make people see Duke as that much more prestigious. That's on top of the fact that BL+FC is just a TLS thing and not an actual industry metric, and on top of the fact that NYU has over twice as many students in each class compared to Duke.

The argument is that NYU is more prestigious, not almost as prestigious. No one said BL + FC was an industry metric, but those prospects are the two most sought after positions and do drive USNW ranking.

Finally how do so many people have problems with percentages? Class size is unimportant when we discuss these things.

The impact on the rankings isn't going to be large as to a 3% difference like that. The larger NYU classes also help pay for preftigious faculty, which seems to be how the school is maintaining its ranking since it offers penthouse suites in a desirable part of Manhattan (hell, it even poaches CLS professors that way). Unless Duke's main school is losing money on the law school (which I doubt), it's going to have a harder time on that front. For students, location also matters and, if they're going to have a biglaw job either way, things that don't matter as much start becoming more important. As between a college town feel from Durham and living in the big city, I think millenials are attracted to the latter.

Percentages at this level of granularity don't really tell you much. Duke and UVA beat out HLS and SLS too - no one would use that as an example of why UVA is more or as prestigious than HLS. Duke having a higher % than NYU is literally the function of 10 more people at Duke landing biglaw or federal clerkships. That's MoE float for most schools, especially smaller ones.

[rpupkin]

What are the odds that Duke (77.7%) and UVA (76.9%) pass NYU (74.5%) in the rankings in the next few years?

The explicit goal of the Duke law dean has been to knock off NYU at #5. Whether it happens or not because of the ranking metrics, who knows. But the law school believes it can.

This is a game changer. I have long said that if Duke would just believe in itself, it could skyrocket up the rankings. After years of being satisfied with lingering on the fringes of the V10, the university has finally hired a law school dean with just the right combination of ambition and moxie. Penn, NYU, and CLS aren't going to know what hit them.