Class sizes and medians (c/o 2015) Forum

[Tom Joad]

Can anyone speculate on the impacts that the smaller class sizes will have on employment from each individual school? Like,it will obviously be good, but will certain firms still refuse to take below-median Columbia students, or will that change with 36 fewer students?

I assume things are slightly better if you are above the cut-offs since there are less desirable candidates, but probably not much different for those below cut-offs since there are still plenty of above cut-off people to choose from.

[Wakelaw15]

I would be interested to see data from 2008-2011 regarding attrition rates. It looks like there will be several thousand fewer students in class of 2015, and I'd guess that among those who go (especially at bloaTTTTed crappy law schools) the attrition will be higher than in years past.

[justonemoregame]

I would be interested to see data from 2008-2011 regarding attrition rates. It looks like there will be several thousand fewer students in class of 2015, and I'd guess that among those who go (especially at bloaTTTTed crappy law schools) the attrition will be higher than in years past.

This is something I've been curious about - we might be able to get something from the past few Official LSAC guides. I would also like to see if the percentage of students receiving at least half-tuition scholarships has gone up / will go up. I think this data can be culled from the LSAC guide, too. I may start something on that soon.

[iamrobk]

Can anyone speculate on the impacts that the smaller class sizes will have on employment from each individual school? Like,it will obviously be good, but will certain firms still refuse to take below-median Columbia students, or will that change with 36 fewer students?

I assume things are slightly better if you are above the cut-offs since there are less desirable candidates, but probably not much different for those below cut-offs since there are still plenty of above cut-off people to choose from.

Yeah, assuming law firms keep class sizes basically the same, I think this is how it'll work out.

[Betharl]

Can anyone speculate on the impacts that the smaller class sizes will have on employment from each individual school? Like,it will obviously be good, but will certain firms still refuse to take below-median Columbia students, or will that change with 36 fewer students?

I assume things are slightly better if you are above the cut-offs since there are less desirable candidates, but probably not much different for those below cut-offs since there are still plenty of above cut-off people to choose from.

Yeah, assuming law firms keep class sizes basically the same, I think this is how it'll work out.

That's probably true at any individual school that decreases class size, but the overall trend of decreasing class sizes will hopefully improve employment outcomes. I mean, if Big Law hiring stays the same and the combined class size of the t14 drops 5-10%, then a greater proportion of the students in the t14 should get BigLaw (assuming firms don't compensate by hiring more from outside of the t14, but those schools are dropping in class size too, which will mean less "qualified" candidates). This should lead to a trickle down effect of sorts, with more students getting BigLaw instead of working the jobs they would have gotten otherwise, leaving those jobs open for someone else and so on and so forth.

[HarlandBassett]

Oops, I was thinking of the Infilaw Group that owns Florida Coastal and a couple of others, I think.

Looked into it and the InfiLaw also owns Charlotte law school and Phoenix law school (all for profits). One of the Phoenix board members was the ABA president.

What a disgusting system.

i just saw this on a friend of an acquaintance's facebook (really).


Graduate School
Florida Coastal School of Law
International Law
Beginning my legal education.

[iamrobk]

Can anyone speculate on the impacts that the smaller class sizes will have on employment from each individual school? Like,it will obviously be good, but will certain firms still refuse to take below-median Columbia students, or will that change with 36 fewer students?

I assume things are slightly better if you are above the cut-offs since there are less desirable candidates, but probably not much different for those below cut-offs since there are still plenty of above cut-off people to choose from.

Yeah, assuming law firms keep class sizes basically the same, I think this is how it'll work out.

That's probably true at any individual school that decreases class size, but the overall trend of decreasing class sizes will hopefully improve employment outcomes. I mean, if Big Law hiring stays the same and the combined class size of the t14 drops 5-10%, then a greater proportion of the students in the t14 should get BigLaw (assuming firms don't compensate by hiring more from outside of the t14, but those schools are dropping in class size too, which will mean less "qualified" candidates). This should lead to a trickle down effect of sorts, with more students getting BigLaw instead of working the jobs they would have gotten otherwise, leaving those jobs open for someone else and so on and so forth.

Yeah, but the point I'm trying to make is that there are still some people at median and higher at T14's that strike out. I imagine those people would be the next ones up to get jobs, and it won't really trickle down at all to lower schools.

[NoodleyOne]

Yeah, I don't think this will effect Biglaw in non-T14 very much, but it could have a trickledown effect with shitlaw jobs that the JDs that strike out on Biglaw get stuck with.

[UtilityMonster]

Anyone suspect that Chicago is taking forever to release its stats because they are low?

[manofjustice]

Anyone know an easy way to make the class size change col I made do the calculation automatically for every row?

[20130312]

Anyone know an easy way to make the class size change col I made do the calculation automatically for every row?

Excel has this cool thing called formulas.

[Bildungsroman]

Anyone suspect that Chicago is taking forever to release its stats because they are low?

Chicago took this long last year, too, and stats certainly weren't low then. Keep in mind that Chicago 1Ls are still going through orientation because the school is on the quarter system, so if Chicago gets their final stats out a month after Harvard/Columbia/NYU/etc. they're still right on time.

[jne381]

This thread should use the spread sheet linked to in the OP of this thread http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=194489 or make one just like it.

[Pathika]

This thread should use the spread sheet linked to in the OP of this thread http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=194489 or make one just like it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... nUnc#gid=0

[Rahviveh]

What T14's are we still waiting on?

NYU
Chi
Penn
NW
HLS
SLS
Duke

Any others?

[Wakelaw15]

newest update: WFU. I give a lot of credit to the school for recruiting a smaller class and not only holding their numbers steady, but actually improving.
3.66/163 medians

[stillwater]

A reduction in class size is appreciated but lol at "giving a lot of credit"

[jne381]

This thread should use the spread sheet linked to in the OP of this thread http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=194489 or make one just like it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... nUnc#gid=0

Who is the dipshit that fucked up the order?

[LSATSCORES2012]

This thread should use the spread sheet linked to in the OP of this thread http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=194489 or make one just like it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... nUnc#gid=0

Who is the dipshit that fucked up the order?

Haha, seriously

I couldn't figure out how to fix it easily so I just restored a version from 3:52 today.

[danquayle]

Oops, I was thinking of the Infilaw Group that owns Florida Coastal and a couple of others, I think.

Looked into it and the InfiLaw also owns Charlotte law school and Phoenix law school (all for profits). One of the Phoenix board members was the ABA president.

What a disgusting system.

i just saw this on a friend of an acquaintance's facebook (really).


Graduate School
Florida Coastal School of Law
International Law
Beginning my legal education.

I don't normally suggest such things, but can't you casually strike up a conversation and drop hints that this is a bad idea? It's like watching someone walk off a cliff: it's so obvious that I feel I have a duty to rescue.

The few times I've tried to very gently intervene, the people have reacted so hostilely that any pity I had for them rapidly dissipates. After telling a good college friend (now facebook acquantaince) that BigLaw probably wasn't a possibility out of Cooley Law, he actually said "just because you failed in law school doesn't mean I will."

I googled him recently and see he's started his own firm so obviously I was wrong.

[KremeCheez]

C'mon, c'mon...daddy needs a -.02 from Northwestern and Duke....

[sconnielaw13]

University of Iowa

Median LSAT: 162(+1)

Median GPA: 3.66 (+.02)

Class size: 155 (-25)

[shifty_eyed]

A reduction in class size is appreciated but lol at "giving a lot of credit"

Especially since they were emailing June LSAT takers desperately to apply in late July to start this fall.

[redbullvodka]

Chicago:

167/171/173 (--/--/--)

3.65/3.90/3.96 (-.06/+.03/+.02)

--LinkRemoved--

EDIT: Was added earlier in thread, but class size of 184, which is 6 less than last year's 191.

[KevinP]

Oops, I was thinking of the Infilaw Group that owns Florida Coastal and a couple of others, I think.

Looked into it and the InfiLaw also owns Charlotte law school and Phoenix law school (all for profits). One of the Phoenix board members was the ABA president.

What a disgusting system.

i just saw this on a friend of an acquaintance's facebook (really).


Graduate School
Florida Coastal School of Law
International Law
Beginning my legal education.

Wow. Im still how to tell such ppl not to go w/o sounding like a dbag.