UVA Dillard v Columbia v NYU Forum

[Nebby]

Exhibit A: the staff of Human Rights Watch.

Sorry to derail, but damn, they all just look so *intent* and *serious* in their photos.

"We is a serious human rights org" *has endless cocktail parties to raise funding*

The attorneys doing the work have nothing to do with development. Money doesn't raise itself, either.

[Pragmatic Gun]

Exhibit A: the staff of Human Rights Watch.

Sorry to derail, but damn, they all just look so *intent* and *serious* in their photos.

"We is a serious human rights org" *has endless cocktail parties to raise funding*

The attorneys doing the work have nothing to do with development. Money doesn't raise itself, either.

Did you have to ruin the joke? For the record, I think they do valuable work. I was just poking fun at the less glamorous side.

[UVA2B]

I really, really wish the people who voted for NYU/Columbia in this poll would explain their reasoning. If a communist, "I have much, others have little, I'll sacrifice my discount for them," that's one thing. If legitimately thinking it's a good decision to pick NYU/Columbia in this case...I just don't know what to do with that.

[Npret]

OP, I think a lot of people who voted UVA (including myself) simply don't come from your kind of money. I don't mean that critically, but it's important to factor in. For me (us) 200k is a colossal sum, way too much to spend on one product which is only marginally better than another. However, if this just isn't the case for you (which I'm guessing from the way you talk about $$), then I can see how the added benefit of living in NYC and going to Columbia could push you to choose it. I mean, some people spend 200k on a wedding, let alone a high-quality professional school.

People from money don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars needlessly. I agree OP will end up at Columbia and biglaw regardless. Maybe he's wealthier than he's admitted and has real family money. Maybe he has some rivalry with his brother he won't admit to here.

Congrats to whoever gets his full ride to UVa assuming they pass it on.

From everything that was said, OP's family has real money (or he/she's completely irrational, but I'll assume that's not the case).

Whether or not Dillards are literally given to someone else when they're passed up, that money will go back into the pool of cash UVA has allotted to scholarships, and will, in all likelihood, be redistributed to someone(s) who actually needs and appreciates it.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the $200,000 was all his remaining family savings for education for their kids and that's it. I thought the money for named scholarships was a separate pool from general scholarship money (kept separate by the terms of the gift) but I don't know.

[BoyJord]

OP, I think a lot of people who voted UVA (including myself) simply don't come from your kind of money. I don't mean that critically, but it's important to factor in. For me (us) 200k is a colossal sum, way too much to spend on one product which is only marginally better than another. However, if this just isn't the case for you (which I'm guessing from the way you talk about $$), then I can see how the added benefit of living in NYC and going to Columbia could push you to choose it. I mean, some people spend 200k on a wedding, let alone a high-quality professional school.

People from money don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars needlessly. I agree OP will end up at Columbia and biglaw regardless. Maybe he's wealthier than he's admitted and has real family money. Maybe he has some rivalry with his brother he won't admit to here.

Congrats to whoever gets his full ride to UVa assuming they pass it on.

From everything that was said, OP's family has real money (or he/she's completely irrational, but I'll assume that's not the case).

Whether or not Dillards are literally given to someone else when they're passed up, that money will go back into the pool of cash UVA has allotted to scholarships, and will, in all likelihood, be redistributed to someone(s) who actually needs and appreciates it.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the $200,000 was all his remaining family savings for education for their kids and that's it. I thought the money for named scholarships was a separate pool from general scholarship money (kept separate by the terms of the gift) but I don't know.

Either way, wouldn't UVA recycle the money? Would they pocket this user's Dillard if it is declined? Is it too optimistic to think they would find another competitive applicant and pass along the scholarship?

[Alexandros]

.

[BoyJord]

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the $200,000 was all his remaining family savings for education for their kids and that's it. I thought the money for named scholarships was a separate pool from general scholarship money (kept separate by the terms of the gift) but I don't know.

Either way, wouldn't UVA recycle the money? Would they pocket this user's Dillard if it is declined? Is it too optimistic to think they would find another competitive applicant and pass along the scholarship?

They'll recycle the money regardless.

so we are all in agreement, OP should go to CLS or NYU and leave the Dillard behind for a less fortunate TLSer

[LHS17]

OP, I think a lot of people who voted UVA (including myself) simply don't come from your kind of money. I don't mean that critically, but it's important to factor in. For me (us) 200k is a colossal sum, way too much to spend on one product which is only marginally better than another. However, if this just isn't the case for you (which I'm guessing from the way you talk about $$), then I can see how the added benefit of living in NYC and going to Columbia could push you to choose it. I mean, some people spend 200k on a wedding, let alone a high-quality professional school.

People from money don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars needlessly. I agree OP will end up at Columbia and biglaw regardless. Maybe he's wealthier than he's admitted and has real family money. Maybe he has some rivalry with his brother he won't admit to here.

Congrats to whoever gets his full ride to UVa assuming they pass it on.

From everything that was said, OP's family has real money (or he/she's completely irrational, but I'll assume that's not the case).

Whether or not Dillards are literally given to someone else when they're passed up, that money will go back into the pool of cash UVA has allotted to scholarships, and will, in all likelihood, be redistributed to someone(s) who actually needs and appreciates it.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the $200,000 was all his remaining family savings for education for their kids and that's it. I thought the money for named scholarships was a separate pool from general scholarship money (kept separate by the terms of the gift) but I don't know.

Either way, wouldn't UVA recycle the money? Would they pocket this user's Dillard if it is declined? Is it too optimistic to think they would find another competitive applicant and pass along the scholarship?

Yeah, I don't get what people find so offensive. It's a merit scholarship, not need. If their merit was so high despite lack of need, sounds even more meritorious to me. Provided they applied to UVA in good faith (i.e. if Columbia and NYU rejected them, they wouldn't turn down the Dillard), I don't see the issue.

[GreenEggs]

I mean I vote Dillard for the fact that its full ride, but if you're not paying anything either way yourself, then think about your goals. If you want to do international arbitration or other international work, CLS for the former and NYU the latter

[BoyJord]

OP, I think a lot of people who voted UVA (including myself) simply don't come from your kind of money. I don't mean that critically, but it's important to factor in. For me (us) 200k is a colossal sum, way too much to spend on one product which is only marginally better than another. However, if this just isn't the case for you (which I'm guessing from the way you talk about $$), then I can see how the added benefit of living in NYC and going to Columbia could push you to choose it. I mean, some people spend 200k on a wedding, let alone a high-quality professional school.

People from money don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars needlessly. I agree OP will end up at Columbia and biglaw regardless. Maybe he's wealthier than he's admitted and has real family money. Maybe he has some rivalry with his brother he won't admit to here.

Congrats to whoever gets his full ride to UVa assuming they pass it on.

From everything that was said, OP's family has real money (or he/she's completely irrational, but I'll assume that's not the case).

Whether or not Dillards are literally given to someone else when they're passed up, that money will go back into the pool of cash UVA has allotted to scholarships, and will, in all likelihood, be redistributed to someone(s) who actually needs and appreciates it.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the $200,000 was all his remaining family savings for education for their kids and that's it. I thought the money for named scholarships was a separate pool from general scholarship money (kept separate by the terms of the gift) but I don't know.

Either way, wouldn't UVA recycle the money? Would they pocket this user's Dillard if it is declined? Is it too optimistic to think they would find another competitive applicant and pass along the scholarship?

Yeah, I don't get what people find so offensive. It's a merit scholarship, not need. If their merit was so high despite lack of need, sounds even more meritorious to me. Provided they applied to UVA in good faith (i.e. if Columbia and NYU rejected them, they wouldn't turn down the Dillard), I don't see the issue.

I don't think anyone is disputing whether or not the award is deserved/earned in this instance. I think the "offense" is simply that OP seems to value marginal gains in prestige at around 200k.

[Po$eidon]

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the $200,000 was all his remaining family savings for education for their kids and that's it. I thought the money for named scholarships was a separate pool from general scholarship money (kept separate by the terms of the gift) but I don't know.

Either way, wouldn't UVA recycle the money? Would they pocket this user's Dillard if it is declined? Is it too optimistic to think they would find another competitive applicant and pass along the scholarship?

They'll recycle the money regardless.

so we are all in agreement, OP should go to CLS or NYU and leave the Dillard behind for a less fortunate TLSer

This. He wants CLS, it's marginally better for his unicorn goals, and he doesn't need the Dillard. Many others (including me) would kill for that so I say free up the money he doesn't want.

[LHS17]

OP, I think a lot of people who voted UVA (including myself) simply don't come from your kind of money. I don't mean that critically, but it's important to factor in. For me (us) 200k is a colossal sum, way too much to spend on one product which is only marginally better than another. However, if this just isn't the case for you (which I'm guessing from the way you talk about $$), then I can see how the added benefit of living in NYC and going to Columbia could push you to choose it. I mean, some people spend 200k on a wedding, let alone a high-quality professional school.

People from money don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars needlessly. I agree OP will end up at Columbia and biglaw regardless. Maybe he's wealthier than he's admitted and has real family money. Maybe he has some rivalry with his brother he won't admit to here.

Congrats to whoever gets his full ride to UVa assuming they pass it on.

From everything that was said, OP's family has real money (or he/she's completely irrational, but I'll assume that's not the case).

Whether or not Dillards are literally given to someone else when they're passed up, that money will go back into the pool of cash UVA has allotted to scholarships, and will, in all likelihood, be redistributed to someone(s) who actually needs and appreciates it.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if the $200,000 was all his remaining family savings for education for their kids and that's it. I thought the money for named scholarships was a separate pool from general scholarship money (kept separate by the terms of the gift) but I don't know.

Either way, wouldn't UVA recycle the money? Would they pocket this user's Dillard if it is declined? Is it too optimistic to think they would find another competitive applicant and pass along the scholarship?

Yeah, I don't get what people find so offensive. It's a merit scholarship, not need. If their merit was so high despite lack of need, sounds even more meritorious to me. Provided they applied to UVA in good faith (i.e. if Columbia and NYU rejected them, they wouldn't turn down the Dillard), I don't see the issue.

I don't think anyone is disputing whether or not the award is deserved/earned in this instance. I think the "offense" is simply that OP seems to value marginal gains in prestige at around 200k.

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

[BoyJord]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

[Po$eidon]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

But they're rich. The value of a 200k expense is relative to the wealth of the individual. For most? Indefensible. For OP? Makes sense imo

[LHS17]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

But they're rich. The value of a 200k expense is relative to the wealth of the individual. For most? Indefensible. For OP? Makes sense imo

Agree. Value is determined by the buyer. Perhaps our opinions should not be sought in the first place...

[BoyJord]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

But they're rich. The value of a 200k expense is relative to the wealth of the individual. For most? Indefensible. For OP? Makes sense imo

Agree. Value is determined by the buyer. Perhaps our opinions should not be sought in the first place...

I think this might be the answer. Although I'm sure another school X vs school Y thread will be posted tomorrow.

[UVA2B]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

But they're rich. The value of a 200k expense is relative to the wealth of the individual. For most? Indefensible. For OP? Makes sense imo

Really odd prestige whoring in this logic. You denounce UVA for having zero international lay prestige, but say nothing of whether the other option has similar lay-prestige.

The entire exercise of discussing outcomes is largely masturbatory. UVA places less graduates in firms, relatively speaking, who will be doing international arbitration. The sample size of those going into IHR is too small to make any particular generalizations about placement in that field. If you want to pay $200k for ill-defined prestige in a field that doesn't have a statistical pattern worth relying on, that's on you. But don't pretend CLS magically gives a statistically advantaged chance of getting those jobs.

Even jbagelboy, arguably the biggest proponent of CLS on this site, thinks UVA is the financially responsible decision.

It all changes when we're talking F U money from the family, but even then no one should rightfully propose it's the best choice. You're paying $200k for the most likely outcome to be substantially the same. That's irrational, and I'm not sure how you convince yourself it isn't.

[Po$eidon]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

But they're rich. The value of a 200k expense is relative to the wealth of the individual. For most? Indefensible. For OP? Makes sense imo

Agree. Value is determined by the buyer. Perhaps our opinions should not be sought in the first place...

I was thinking this: TLS skews high scoring but also working class. The advice this site gives is largely contingent on those two lenses but wealthy ppl don't take the risks of debt and spending in their position is defensible and reasonable in a way that it wouldn't be for ppl of more modest backgrounds. In fact the current law school model is built on rich ppl paying sticker while us poors pursue scholarship and kind of requires it. I say go to Columbia.

[Po$eidon]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

But they're rich. The value of a 200k expense is relative to the wealth of the individual. For most? Indefensible. For OP? Makes sense imo

Really odd prestige whoring in this logic. You denounce UVA for having zero international lay prestige, but say nothing of whether the other option has similar lay-prestige.

The entire exercise of discussing outcomes is largely masturbatory. UVA places less graduates in firms, relatively speaking, who will be doing international arbitration. The sample size of those going into IHR is too small to make any particular generalizations about placement in that field. If you want to pay $200k for ill-defined prestige in a field that doesn't have a statistical pattern worth relying on, that's on you. But don't pretend CLS magically gives a statistically advantaged chance of getting those jobs.

Even jbagelboy, arguably the biggest proponent of CLS on this site, thinks UVA is the financially responsible decision.

It all changes when we're talking F U money from the family, but even then no one should rightfully propose it's the best choice. You're paying $200k for the most likely outcome to be substantially the same. That's irrational, and I'm not sure how you convince yourself it isn't.

That's a serious straw man: I didn't say UVA has no prestige at all. I just said Columbia has marginal benefits (and I'd say it also has significantly more international prestige but I didn't say anything about prestige previously). If they were middle class I'd say take money. But they're not. They want CLS and they have money so let someone else get their Dillard shot

[UVA2B]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

But they're rich. The value of a 200k expense is relative to the wealth of the individual. For most? Indefensible. For OP? Makes sense imo

Really odd prestige whoring in this logic. You denounce UVA for having zero international lay prestige, but say nothing of whether the other option has similar lay-prestige.

The entire exercise of discussing outcomes is largely masturbatory. UVA places less graduates in firms, relatively speaking, who will be doing international arbitration. The sample size of those going into IHR is too small to make any particular generalizations about placement in that field. If you want to pay $200k for ill-defined prestige in a field that doesn't have a statistical pattern worth relying on, that's on you. But don't pretend CLS magically gives a statistically advantaged chance of getting those jobs.

Even jbagelboy, arguably the biggest proponent of CLS on this site, thinks UVA is the financially responsible decision.

It all changes when we're talking F U money from the family, but even then no one should rightfully propose it's the best choice. You're paying $200k for the most likely outcome to be substantially the same. That's irrational, and I'm not sure how you convince yourself it isn't.

That's a serious straw man: I didn't say UVA has no prestige at all. I just said Columbia has marginal benefits (and I'd say it also has significantly more international prestige but I didn't say anything about prestige previously). If they were middle class I'd say take money. But they're not. They want CLS and they have money so let someone else get their Dillard shot

Sorry, I meant the original post talking about Europeans and Asians responding to what UVA law is. I was responding more to the original post quoted, not yours, and that's on me.

The point still holds though: regardless of financial situation, it's not the financially prudent decision. You're right that the OP has every right to go against what is financially prudent, but it's foolish to say it makes sense financially. They're more than likely wasting money on the same outcome, but they are uniquely positioned to spend money unnecessarily for marginal benefits of prestige.

[Po$eidon]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

But they're rich. The value of a 200k expense is relative to the wealth of the individual. For most? Indefensible. For OP? Makes sense imo

Really odd prestige whoring in this logic. You denounce UVA for having zero international lay prestige, but say nothing of whether the other option has similar lay-prestige.

The entire exercise of discussing outcomes is largely masturbatory. UVA places less graduates in firms, relatively speaking, who will be doing international arbitration. The sample size of those going into IHR is too small to make any particular generalizations about placement in that field. If you want to pay $200k for ill-defined prestige in a field that doesn't have a statistical pattern worth relying on, that's on you. But don't pretend CLS magically gives a statistically advantaged chance of getting those jobs.

Even jbagelboy, arguably the biggest proponent of CLS on this site, thinks UVA is the financially responsible decision.

It all changes when we're talking F U money from the family, but even then no one should rightfully propose it's the best choice. You're paying $200k for the most likely outcome to be substantially the same. That's irrational, and I'm not sure how you convince yourself it isn't.

That's a serious straw man: I didn't say UVA has no prestige at all. I just said Columbia has marginal benefits (and I'd say it also has significantly more international prestige but I didn't say anything about prestige previously). If they were middle class I'd say take money. But they're not. They want CLS and they have money so let someone else get their Dillard shot

Sorry, I meant the original post talking about Europeans and Asians responding to what UVA law is. I was responding more to the original post quoted, not yours, and that's on me.

The point still holds though: regardless of financial situation, it's not the financially prudent decision. You're right that the OP has every right to go against what is financially prudent, but it's foolish to say it makes sense financially. They're more than likely wasting money on the same outcome, but they are uniquely positioned to spend money unnecessarily for marginal benefits of prestige.

You're right they're most likely wasting money. But that's not necessarily the case. CLS grads can be lower at CLS while getting the same job - it could matter. It's SMALL and entirely indefensible if you do not come from money BUT opportunity cost is a thing (not worth considering against debt, sure, but it exists). As OP is taking on no debt and seems to have a reliable safety net if everything goes to shit I think CLS is worth it for the miniscule prestige boost (ps I do think lay prestige matters in intl law more and oddly enough if OP was comparing Cornell vs UVA I'd prob say Cornell cuz the international lay prestige is weird and ivy-centric even if undeserved).

[Po$eidon]

*debt*

[Clemenceau]

The robin hood turn this thread took is pretty hilarious

[Npret]

I think if you ask the average person on the streets of Europe or Asia what UVA law is, they won't have a clue. "International" prestige can diverge widely from domestic prestige, but I admittedly don't know what is really being pursued here. Marginal gain is debatable to me.

Fair enough. "marginal" was probably not entirely accurate but I would stand by the fact that the gains are not worth the ~200k we are discussing.

But they're rich. The value of a 200k expense is relative to the wealth of the individual. For most? Indefensible. For OP? Makes sense imo

Really odd prestige whoring in this logic. You denounce UVA for having zero international lay prestige, but say nothing of whether the other option has similar lay-prestige.

The entire exercise of discussing outcomes is largely masturbatory. UVA places less graduates in firms, relatively speaking, who will be doing international arbitration. The sample size of those going into IHR is too small to make any particular generalizations about placement in that field. If you want to pay $200k for ill-defined prestige in a field that doesn't have a statistical pattern worth relying on, that's on you. But don't pretend CLS magically gives a statistically advantaged chance of getting those jobs.

Even jbagelboy, arguably the biggest proponent of CLS on this site, thinks UVA is the financially responsible decision.

It all changes when we're talking F U money from the family, but even then no one should rightfully propose it's the best choice. You're paying $200k for the most likely outcome to be substantially the same. That's irrational, and I'm not sure how you convince yourself it isn't.

That's a serious straw man: I didn't say UVA has no prestige at all. I just said Columbia has marginal benefits (and I'd say it also has significantly more international prestige but I didn't say anything about prestige previously). If they were middle class I'd say take money. But they're not. They want CLS and they have money so let someone else get their Dillard shot

I'm sure OP said that the money for school would take away from money available from parents for buying a house, etc. Where did that change? You have to be extremely wealthy to waste $200,000. I don't think OP is that rich. If OP were that rich, he wouldn't even be asking outside of some ridiculous humblebrag.

Here's what OP said:
Lol yeah exactly, it's nice to not be facing debt but after mine and my brothers (who's a 3L now) school expenses, if I pay sticker then whatever finances I could have used down the line for a safety net/house/adult things will be entirely used up.

But maybe his story changed.

I don't think Columbia is justified but OP seems to have his heart set on it.

[Po$eidon]

The robin hood turn this thread took is pretty hilarious

The leftists appeared. But in this case Robin Hood's victim wants to be robbed. Do the moral thing OP: go to your dream school CLS and give your money to the poors.