STUDY: People don't regret going to law schools outside the top 10. Forum

[pancakes3]

That line of arguing will circle back the fundamental difference Johann has with the "hivemind" re: debt.

Cav, you're all about "servicing debt" but to be fair to JDM, PAYE and PSLF do exist. Also, satisfaction is fluid and can be "deluded" into. See this-is-fine-meme.jpeg

I think what TLS should do is temper expectations re: employment outcomes but the safety nets exist for better or worse and people can just PAYE until the bubble bursts. If you don't like it, fault the legislators implementing PAYE but don't fault the students for taking advantage.

[Johann]

yeah im in agreement with pancakes.

lets start giving people the best advice we can and let them decide for themselves:

1) have they used all 3 LSAT attempts
2) are they sure they want to be a lawyer - have they talked to some? have they read a day in the life thread here front to back? what other alternatives do they have?
3) are their goals achievable? let's give them the LST numbers and then let them decide for themselves whether they will risk 10% biglaw employment at Temple or whatever. all we need to do is make sure they've seen the numbers at LST. if someone wants to bet on themselves being better than median - so be it as long as they are aware of law school graved curving.
4) do they have a plan for repaying the amount of money they borrow? if that includes PAYE or refi-ing with SOFI, why do we care?

[cavalier1138]

yeah im in agreement with pancakes.

lets start giving people the best advice we can and let them decide for themselves:

1) have they used all 3 LSAT attempts
2) are they sure they want to be a lawyer - have they talked to some? have they read a day in the life thread here front to back? what other alternatives do they have?
3) are their goals achievable? let's give them the LST numbers and then let them decide for themselves whether they will risk 10% biglaw employment at Temple or whatever. all we need to do is make sure they've seen the numbers at LST. if someone wants to bet on themselves being better than median - so be it as long as they are aware of law school graved curving.
4) do they have a plan for repaying the amount of money they borrow? if that includes PAYE or refi-ing with SOFI, why do we care?

Is anyone on this site preventing posters from deciding for themselves? Telling someone they're potentially throwing their life away with a bad decision is real (and in many cases, good) advice. That doesn't mean that they have to follow the advice. They voluntarily sought out advice here. But to respond to each criterion:

1. You get more than three attempts, but it involves waiting. And having seen the phrase, "I'm already 26, so it's too late for me to wait any longer," on this site, I'm comfortable saying that most people can afford to wait.
2. I can talk to as many lawyers as I like, but if I don't have a chance of getting hired as one from my school of choice, that's a problem. As you've already pointed out, life changes your outlook on things. So if I don't see any other option for me at the moment, that doesn't mean that I don't have other options. It just means I'm not seeing them.
3. I'm all for that. No one is twisting anyone's arm here. But there's nothing wrong (and a lot of things right) with telling someone, "No, you can't achieve your dreams from Cooley, and attending would be a bad idea."
4. If they have a plan for it, great. Most people who come here don't. And as much as you tout PAYE for non-PSLF employees, I'd wager that most people aren't comfortable with that long period of debt followed by a tax bomb. It may make financial sense, but there's a psychological reality to it that most people aren't willing to cope with. That said, there is still no one preventing people from taking that course of action.

What it comes down to is this: telling someone, "Don't do that thing," isn't bad advice just because that person doesn't want to hear it. If someone came to me and said, "Should I buy a few grand of heroin or cut off my arm," I'd tell them to do neither. I'm not dodging. I'm not forcing them to do anything. I'm not failing to offer them advice. I'm telling them that there are other options they need to consider that don't involve heroin or lost limbs.