Dear O'Ls Forum

[AT9]

As someone in a similar situation to OP, just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Even if you do crush it at a regional school, your odds of biglaw (or at least a firm/market) are still not guaranteed. I finished 1L top 5% at a top 50 school and had one biglaw level offer out of a bunch of interviews. And it was in my pretty much last choice market. Friends of mine at T14 schools with otherwise comparable backgrounds and interviewing skills, but lower grades (maybe top 1/3 or so), fared way better in getting their offers of choice.

A decent regional for nearly free may be a decent idea, but know that it will be more difficult to get the job you want even if you end up with really good grades. Exhaust your retakes and aim for a decent scholarship at a T14 before you settle on a regional school w/$$$.

[ManoftheHour]

I did alright at a T-1 regional school. Top 20%. Took a full ride and then some. Completely struck out. I'm not the only one. My friend is top 15% with LR and she's currently jobless. While it isn't the end of the world (big law is not really my goal and I'm still on track for me "dream job"), it feels really uneasy heading into summer without a paid position that will turn into an offer before 3L year. I've had a lot of anxiety the past few months (and I still do).

If you want big law, definitely don't stop until you get a decent deal at a T-14. Even if you do well at a regional, it's far from guaranteed. It's certainly possible to get such positions at regional schools (I know a handful of people that did, but that number is around like 10), you will face an uphill battle.

[Zero99]

I did alright at a T-1 regional school. Top 20%. Took a full ride and then some. Completely struck out. I'm not the only one. My friend is top 15% with LR and she's currently jobless. While it isn't the end of the world (big law is not really my goal and I'm still on track for me "dream job"), it feels really uneasy heading into summer without a paid position that will turn into an offer before 3L year. I've had a lot of anxiety the past few months (and I still do).

If you want big law, definitely don't stop until you get a decent deal at a T-14. Even if you do well at a regional, it's far from guaranteed. It's certainly possible to get such positions at regional schools (I know a handful of people that did, but that number is around like 10), you will face an uphill battle.

Agree with this. Then again, it depends on the school. Regional schools can vary pretty widely for biglaw placement. People looking at biglaw from a regional school need to know that school's statistics, and need to honestly gauge their own personal/social skills. In my experience, offers went overwhelmingly to people who you'd expect would get them.

Edit: with the caveat that luck plays a significant factor as well.

[ManoftheHour]

I did alright at a T-1 regional school. Top 20%. Took a full ride and then some. Completely struck out. I'm not the only one. My friend is top 15% with LR and she's currently jobless. While it isn't the end of the world (big law is not really my goal and I'm still on track for me "dream job"), it feels really uneasy heading into summer without a paid position that will turn into an offer before 3L year. I've had a lot of anxiety the past few months (and I still do).

If you want big law, definitely don't stop until you get a decent deal at a T-14. Even if you do well at a regional, it's far from guaranteed. It's certainly possible to get such positions at regional schools (I know a handful of people that did, but that number is around like 10), you will face an uphill battle.

Agree with this. Then again, it depends on the school. Regional schools can vary pretty widely for biglaw placement. People looking at biglaw from a regional school need to know that school's statistics, and need to honestly gauge their own personal/social skills. In my experience, offers went overwhelmingly to people who you'd expect would get them.

Edit: with the caveat that luck plays a significant factor as well.

To pile on, TIES play an important part if you're going to some regional schools. Not just state-wise, but city-wise for some schools. At my regional, offers overwhelmingly went to locals before anyone else, even if everyone is from the same state. This is something that I think I greatly underestimated.

Ex: There's a big difference between northern CA and southern CA. If you're from LA, went to UG in LA, unless you totally killed 1L year, you're going to be fighting an uphill battle if you're targeting a place like SF/Sacramento/SV (and vice versa for LA/OC/SD).

[pancakes3]

1) Nobody dreams of doing the work that BL associates are handed, so the "passion for the law dictates happiness" argument is really a non-starter. "Passion" jobs like being an environmental lawyer for the EPA, or public defender are not on the 160k payscale.

2) People burn out of BL for the same reason people burn out of other high-stress 100+ hr workweek jobs. It's just an untenable lifestyle. Ibanking, doctoring, etc. nobody is putting in those ridiculous hours for more than a decade - tops.

3) On top of (a) your school's job placement stats (b) your grades, you have to factor in personality and hustle. Even if you have good grades at a good school, if you're a shit interviewer, you could still very well strike out. On top of that - expectations of what kind of jobs you want vs what kind of jobs you're competitive for, and the amount of hustle you put into the job-seeking process (if you don't put in effort and just rely on grades, you will strike out) all dictate employment outcomes. Also, as MotH said - ties also play a factor.

It's just a jumbled clusterfuck where there are twice as many graduates as job openings, and only 10-20% of those openings pay enough to make taking on debt worth it. It's gambling with your life/career.

Also, no. Second-hand smoke is not a thing.

[eagle2a]

For real though people, don't put yourself through this BS, especially at a bad school. A lot of work, a lot of time, and a lot of money, with only a small chance that you'll get even a decent paying job. This chance decreases exponentially the worse your school is.

[JCougar]

I'm surprised nobody's called flame on lil lawyer yet.

If it's too bad to be true, it's probably flame. And this is too bad to be true. Or am I underestimating the naivete of 0Ls?

[PoopyPants]

1) Nobody dreams of doing the work that BL associates are handed, so the "passion for the law dictates happiness" argument is really a non-starter. "Passion" jobs like being an environmental lawyer for the EPA, or public defender are not on the 160k payscale.

2) People burn out of BL for the same reason people burn out of other high-stress 100+ hr workweek jobs. It's just an untenable lifestyle. Ibanking, doctoring, etc. nobody is putting in those ridiculous hours for more than a decade - tops.

3) On top of (a) your school's job placement stats (b) your grades, you have to factor in personality and hustle. Even if you have good grades at a good school, if you're a shit interviewer, you could still very well strike out. On top of that - expectations of what kind of jobs you want vs what kind of jobs you're competitive for, and the amount of hustle you put into the job-seeking process (if you don't put in effort and just rely on grades, you will strike out) all dictate employment outcomes. Also, as MotH said - ties also play a factor.

It's just a jumbled clusterfuck where there are twice as many graduates as job openings, and only 10-20% of those openings pay enough to make taking on debt worth it. It's gambling with your life/career.

Also, no. Second-hand smoke is not a thing.

Great post, but you're joking about the secondhand smoke thing, right?

[eagle2a]

To anyone thinking of going to a T3/T4, unless you're going for free, don't. Even then, you've got cost of living/a high probability of completely wasting three years of your life. There are not enough jobs out there. This is not a myth. There are simply not enough jobs. Going go a T3/T4, you're at the very bottom of the totem pole, and likely will not be practicing law. I'm not being a douchebag, it is the truth. PLEASE do some research on job numbers and save yourself.

[jrass]

As someone in a similar situation to OP, just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Even if you do crush it at a regional school, your odds of biglaw (or at least a firm/market) are still not guaranteed. I finished 1L top 5% at a top 50 school and had one biglaw level offer out of a bunch of interviews. And it was in my pretty much last choice market. Friends of mine at T14 schools with otherwise comparable backgrounds and interviewing skills, but lower grades (maybe top 1/3 or so), fared way better in getting their offers of choice.

A decent regional for nearly free may be a decent idea, but know that it will be more difficult to get the job you want even if you end up with really good grades. Exhaust your retakes and aim for a decent scholarship at a T14 before you settle on a regional school w/$$$.

I don't think this is only true of regional schools, but I agree your odds will still be lower than someone with a comparable class rank at another school. The important thing students should keep in mind is that if 10% of a given class gets big law, every student outside the top 10% who gets big law means that one less student in the top 10% gets it.

[ManoftheHour]

As someone in a similar situation to OP, just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Even if you do crush it at a regional school, your odds of biglaw (or at least a firm/market) are still not guaranteed. I finished 1L top 5% at a top 50 school and had one biglaw level offer out of a bunch of interviews. And it was in my pretty much last choice market. Friends of mine at T14 schools with otherwise comparable backgrounds and interviewing skills, but lower grades (maybe top 1/3 or so), fared way better in getting their offers of choice.

A decent regional for nearly free may be a decent idea, but know that it will be more difficult to get the job you want even if you end up with really good grades. Exhaust your retakes and aim for a decent scholarship at a T14 before you settle on a regional school w/$$$.

This is solid advice. Saw the same thing happen at my school with people with top grades and LR.

Off tangent, but I thought you transferred.

[AT9]

As someone in a similar situation to OP, just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Even if you do crush it at a regional school, your odds of biglaw (or at least a firm/market) are still not guaranteed. I finished 1L top 5% at a top 50 school and had one biglaw level offer out of a bunch of interviews. And it was in my pretty much last choice market. Friends of mine at T14 schools with otherwise comparable backgrounds and interviewing skills, but lower grades (maybe top 1/3 or so), fared way better in getting their offers of choice.

A decent regional for nearly free may be a decent idea, but know that it will be more difficult to get the job you want even if you end up with really good grades. Exhaust your retakes and aim for a decent scholarship at a T14 before you settle on a regional school w/$$$.

This is solid advice. Saw the same thing happen at my school with people with top grades and LR.

Off tangent, but I thought you transferred.

I put in an app to HLS as a Hail Mary and one to CLS, but didn't get either. In retrospect I should have applied more broadly, as I probably would have had a better shot at something higher on my list even at Michigan or something, but I'm still not sure transferring would have been the best option given the extra $100K + price tag.

[AT9]

To pile on, TIES play an important part if you're going to some regional schools. Not just state-wise, but city-wise for some schools. At my regional, offers overwhelmingly went to locals before anyone else, even if everyone is from the same state. This is something that I think I greatly underestimated.

0Ls, take this to heart. I think a big part of my problem was not having ties to the state where I went to school, even though I had strong ties to "the south" generally. Take this to heart and learn from our mistakes.

[jrass]

I think schools should have to put a disclaimer when it comes to jobs statistics. I get that the #'s for some are so outrageous that a reasonably prudent purchaser wouldn't rely on them, which is the court's reasoning why schools like Cooley can advertise that 80% of grads make over 6 figures when only 1% do. That said, schools go out of their way to make the made up numbers look real by having graphs and well made websites. I'm not asking for the schools to be honest or saying that schools should be treated like other businesses. I'm all for letting them lie, and respect a good scam as much as I respect legitimate businesses - it takes brains to pull off a big scam. My only ask is they put a small print disclaimer that the numbers presented may not be accurate. Under the current system, it's conceivable students can investigate and never find any accurate data.

[eagle2a]

seriously guys, don't go to TTT's