GGU (accepted) or USF (wl but should know soon) Forum

[marksteere]

Jesus, this guy is serious.

Yes, I'm serious, and I'm open, and I don't hide behind nicknames, as do many of you.

And I'm a world class designer of a very narrow class of abstract games. Is that a problem?

[TheSpanishMain]

To be honest, I don't care about thousands of poor people. There really aren't any causes that I care about. Sorry, but again, just being honest. And I don't want to work with snotty socialites. That's something that would last about two weeks, at best.

God, you sound terrible. Go ahead and spend the 150k to buy an identity other than "spoiled child" for yourself.

[BigZuck]

Lol

This might be my favorite thread on TLS, ever

Just go to whichever you prefer, Mark. Both schools are scams, neither are going to give you appreciably better options than the other and you don't care about that anyway so choose whichever would make you happiest.

[marksteere]

Lol

This might be my favorite thread on TLS, ever

Just go to whichever you prefer, Mark. Both schools are scams, neither are going to give you appreciably better options than the other and you don't care about that anyway so choose whichever would make you happiest.

Ok, thanks.

[marksteere]

go wherever you like best and kill it.

Ok, thanks

[marksteere]

The meandering is mean-spirited.

It's ok. I think this is the most civilized, heated discussion I've ever engaged in, so I commend you guys for that. It's forcing me to confront issues in and about myself that I'll probably have to deal with in the "real world", so might as well hash it out here.

I'll check back tomorrow. The moderator must be getting itchy fingers about now, so let's cool down

[moneybagsphd]

This is a good post, and I appreciate what you're saying, HRomanus. I'm not so rich that I could be a philanthropist. The money I spend will be an investment in myself. To be honest, I don't care about thousands of poor people. There really aren't any causes that I care about. Sorry, but again, just being honest. And I don't want to work with snotty socialites. That's something that would last about two weeks, at best.

I'm getting mixed signals. You say money doesn't matter, but refer to this as an "investment in yourself." Which is it? Because I'm all for you going through with this IF AND ONLY IF you don't need any income from practicing law to live comfortably.

[timbs4339]

lining the pockets of the hucksters at [GGU]

They aren't hucksters and it's not a scam. Opportunity is not equivalent to scam. They're not promising you'll pass the bar and get a job. They aren't making a secret of their low bar passage and job placement rates. I knew about their stats from the get go. It's only a scam if they're misrepresenting themselves and you're fooled, which they're not and I'm not.

They are hucksters because the vast majority of students at GGU and FSU don't have the resources that you do (I know you don't care about poor people but you must recognize that you're in a category that describes 1% of law students) and are going into this trying to get a middle-class career for themselves. Without those students and their federal loans, these schools simply would not exist to provide you "opportunity" to feel good about yourself. Those students actually believe they'll make enough out of GGU and FSU to service their debt, and the law schools do nothing to dissuade them from that belief. In my mind, that makes them hucksters.

Just because you play Three Card Monte for fun doesn't mean you're like everyone else who does it.

[timbs4339]

The high-horseism here is unbelievable. I'd give the money to charity too, guys, but it's his money. He gets to do what he wants with it. He clearly understands that his employment prospects with a degree from either school will not be great, and he clearly doesn't really care. So why don't people stop trying to convince him to radically change who he is on the spot, and leave the thread for people who can give their opinions on his original question?

I think we've adequately covered his options already. We're just meandering now. This is the internet. If you don't like it go outside.

The meandering is mean-spirited. And I disagree that the options have been adequately covered. The only actually productive posts here are the ones that speak to the relative benefits and disadvantages of GGU and USF. To some people, there might actually be a difference between negative kajillion and negative bazillion.

Law school is not a high-risk investment for me, either, and I think a lot of people are having trouble understanding the mindset of someone who is very different from themselves.

The two schools are essentially the same for OP's purposes. Unless OP absolutely kills it (and even then the fact he's close to retirement age means that still might be enough) he'll be a solo, assuming he can pass the bar.

Oh, I understand it just fine. OP is in love with the lay prestige of "being a lawyer," the Paper Chase/Legally Blonde version of law school, and looks at this as something interesting to do for a few years that might give him some personal satisfaction and social respect. We're just saying there might be better ways he can achieve those goals than being a solo.

[rpupkin]

But in my case, as I've said, I don't care about the money.

There's a vast difference between having a disposable income and not caring about money. You certainly seem like the latter. How you want to live your life and what legacy you want to leave are entirely up to you. But I think it is socially irresponsible and morally reprehensible to throw abundant stacks of cash at a school so you can feel worthwhile saying you're a lawyer.

The sanctimony ITT is getting difficult to stomach. No, it is not "morally reprehensible" for the OP to decide he wants to pay the price a law school is charging to attend. Nor is it self-destructive or stupid. The OP is making a reasonably well-informed choice about trying out a career late in life. Yeah, he's making a few of the idealized assumptions that many 0Ls make, but his outlook, overall, seems realistic. He does not appear to be "delusional," "immoral," or any of the other pejoratives being hurled here.

As for the suggestion that the OP should attend a correspondence school, he says he wants to try the typical law school experience, with the socratic method and all the other traditional hazing that a law student goes through. Perhaps he'll find the experience annoying and pointless (as so many of you did). Or maybe he'll like it and find that the classroom experience makes learning law more enjoyable. (That was true for me.) Plus, going to GGU or USF will give him the opportunity to make friends in school, which is something else that a correspondence course wouldn't give him. I actually liked many of the people I went to law school with.

OP: It's your life, and you're financially secure. For the reasons stated by others, I don't think it matters whether you go to GGU or USF. I'd just pick the one you like more for whatever reason (nicer facilities, nicer part of the city, better vibe, whatever). Good luck.

[BigZuck]

But in my case, as I've said, I don't care about the money.

There's a vast difference between having a disposable income and not caring about money. You certainly seem like the latter. How you want to live your life and what legacy you want to leave are entirely up to you. But I think it is socially irresponsible and morally reprehensible to throw abundant stacks of cash at a school so you can feel worthwhile saying you're a lawyer.

The sanctimony ITT is getting difficult to stomach. No, it is not "morally reprehensible" for the OP to decide he wants to pay the price a law school is charging to attend. Nor is it self-destructive or stupid. The OP is making a reasonably well-informed choice about trying out a career late in life. Yeah, he's making a few of the idealized assumptions that many 0Ls make, but his outlook, overall, seems realistic. He does not appear to be "delusional," "immoral," or any of the other pejoratives being hurled here.

As for the suggestion that the OP should attend a correspondence school, he says he wants to try the typical law school experience, with the socratic method and all the other traditional hazing that a law student goes through. Perhaps he'll find the experience annoying and pointless (as so many of you did). Or maybe he'll like it and find that the classroom experience makes learning law more enjoyable. (That was true for me.) Plus, going to GGU or USF will give him the opportunity to make friends in school, which is something else that a correspondence course wouldn't give him. I actually liked many of the people I went to law school with.

OP: It's your life, and you're financially secure. For the reasons stated by others, I don't think it matters whether you go to GGU or USF. I'd just pick the one you like more for whatever reason (nicer facilities, nicer part of the city, better vibe, whatever). Good luck.

Objectively speaking, it is stupid to pay 100K+ to go to a school like GGU. There are lots of terrible law schools in this country. GGU is one of a handful of the very worst (arguably THE worst). USF is not far behind.

It's doubly stupid to go to one of these schools when one of the CA accredited schools will offer the same shitty product at a cheaper cost.

That's all objectively speaking.

I also think what the OP is doing is morally wrong, but I acknowledge that that might be more subjective so whatevs I guess.

The OP is probably a very charming and pleasant guy but also one hell of a sociopath based on what he has conveyed ITT. I think sticking up for him is kinda weird, but ok.

[HRomanus]

But in my case, as I've said, I don't care about the money.

There's a vast difference between having a disposable income and not caring about money. You certainly seem like the latter. How you want to live your life and what legacy you want to leave are entirely up to you. But I think it is socially irresponsible and morally reprehensible to throw abundant stacks of cash at a school so you can feel worthwhile saying you're a lawyer.

The sanctimony ITT is getting difficult to stomach. No, it is not "morally reprehensible" for the OP to decide he wants to pay the price a law school is charging to attend. Nor is it self-destructive or stupid. The OP is making a reasonably well-informed choice about trying out a career late in life. Yeah, he's making a few of the idealized assumptions that many 0Ls make, but his outlook, overall, seems realistic. He does not appear to be "delusional," "immoral," or any of the other pejoratives being hurled here.

As for the suggestion that the OP should attend a correspondence school, he says he wants to try the typical law school experience, with the socratic method and all the other traditional hazing that a law student goes through. Perhaps he'll find the experience annoying and pointless (as so many of you did). Or maybe he'll like it and find that the classroom experience makes learning law more enjoyable. (That was true for me.) Plus, going to GGU or USF will give him the opportunity to make friends in school, which is something else that a correspondence course wouldn't give him. I actually liked many of the people I went to law school with.

OP: It's your life, and you're financially secure. For the reasons stated by others, I don't think it matters whether you go to GGU or USF. I'd just pick the one you like more for whatever reason (nicer facilities, nicer part of the city, better vibe, whatever). Good luck.

OP's purpose is not to become a successful practicing attorney. OP's purpose is to tell his "friends" that he's lawyer for his self-esteem.

Honestly, after an above poster revealed this guy was a half-cocked board game designer I lost any interest. I was picturing the OP as a rich socialite who's being mocked by his social peers (who I imagined as wealthy businessmen) for not having a job. OP is just odd. And not sure you can say many positive things about someone who professes to not care about poor people and not care about any causes.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I have to admit I don't quite agree with the "don't give money to these scam schools" take. OP is perhaps one of the only people for whom these schools are an appropriate choice, and I don't think whether he attends or not is going to make or break these schools. There are a lot of problems with the system of legal education, but they need to be addressed in a systematic fashion, not by shaming individual behavior. (Educating people, sure - the problem I have with GGU and USF is that people go not understanding what they're getting into. But if they do understand that and have reasons for going anyway, then eh.)

Also, I'm not banning anyone because the OP did use his real name as a username, and I totally understand why people looked for it, but don't post links to people's real identities.

[tskela]

But in my case, as I've said, I don't care about the money.

There's a vast difference between having a disposable income and not caring about money. You certainly seem like the latter. How you want to live your life and what legacy you want to leave are entirely up to you. But I think it is socially irresponsible and morally reprehensible to throw abundant stacks of cash at a school so you can feel worthwhile saying you're a lawyer.

The sanctimony ITT is getting difficult to stomach. No, it is not "morally reprehensible" for the OP to decide he wants to pay the price a law school is charging to attend. Nor is it self-destructive or stupid. The OP is making a reasonably well-informed choice about trying out a career late in life. Yeah, he's making a few of the idealized assumptions that many 0Ls make, but his outlook, overall, seems realistic. He does not appear to be "delusional," "immoral," or any of the other pejoratives being hurled here.

As for the suggestion that the OP should attend a correspondence school, he says he wants to try the typical law school experience, with the socratic method and all the other traditional hazing that a law student goes through. Perhaps he'll find the experience annoying and pointless (as so many of you did). Or maybe he'll like it and find that the classroom experience makes learning law more enjoyable. (That was true for me.) Plus, going to GGU or USF will give him the opportunity to make friends in school, which is something else that a correspondence course wouldn't give him. I actually liked many of the people I went to law school with.

OP: It's your life, and you're financially secure. For the reasons stated by others, I don't think it matters whether you go to GGU or USF. I'd just pick the one you like more for whatever reason (nicer facilities, nicer part of the city, better vibe, whatever). Good luck.

Objectively speaking, it is stupid to pay 100K+ to go to a school like GGU. There are lots of terrible law schools in this country. GGU is one of a handful of the very worst (arguably THE worst). USF is not far behind.

It's doubly stupid to go to one of these schools when one of the CA accredited schools will offer the same shitty product at a cheaper cost.

That's all objectively speaking.

I also think what the OP is doing is morally wrong, but I acknowledge that that might be more subjective so whatevs I guess.

The OP is probably a very charming and pleasant guy but also one hell of a sociopath based on what he has conveyed ITT. I think sticking up for him is kinda weird, but ok.

A sociopath? Come on now.

[rpupkin]

Objectively speaking, it is stupid to pay 100K+ to go to a school like GGU. There are lots of terrible law schools in this country. GGU is one of a handful of the very worst (arguably THE worst). USF is not far behind.

It's doubly stupid to go to one of these schools when one of the CA accredited schools will offer the same shitty product at a cheaper cost.

That's all objectively speaking.

No, that is not all "objectively speaking." How much one values a law school education (or anything else) is going to depend on a collection of subjective factors. If you want to spend $5K more for a red car because you like red more than any other color, that does not make your choice "objectively stupid" just because I couldn't give a fuck about car color.

The OP values going to law school in the city of San Francisco. He also values going through the law school experience with a bunch of law students instead of via a correspondence course. He can afford the experience and wants to pay for it. His choice is not "objectively stupid" because you or I might value different things.

[BigZuck]

tskela- I'm not too up on my personality disorders, maybe narcissistic personality disorder is more fitting?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissi ... y_disorder

Most of those symptoms there seem pretty spot on.

Anyway it's America and this is a law student message board for Christ's sake so I'll stop saying that I think not caring about poor people at all and blasting through hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be put to better use is a bad thing. The fact that the OP might be a real person is kind of terrifying to me but as always, YOLO. I'm also clearly in the minority here so I'll shut up.

[TheSpanishMain]

The OP values going to law school in the city of San Francisco. He also values going through the law school experience with a bunch of law students instead of via a correspondence course. He can afford the experience and wants to pay for it. His choice is not "objectively stupid" because you or I might value different things.

I admit that my distaste for the OP (based only on the things he's posted here, of course) is coloring my commentary here. I think being a 50 something trust fund baby who has never worked is a pretty contemptible thing to be. Seriously, no volunteering? No part time work? Nothing?

I also think the revelation relatively late in life that he wants to be a lawyer is sort of suspicious. What was going on in the last 35 years? Too busy? It just suggests to me that OP doesn't really want to be a lawyer. He just wants to be able to tell people he's a lawyer. He probably picks up on a subtle, unspoken eye roll when people realize he's just been living off of money he never earned his entire life, and he wants some cover. That's why it doesn't really matter if his solo practice ever does any business. He just gets to tell people he's an attorney and let them assume that he's a successful one based on the presumably nice house and nice car. Combine that with the "I don't really have anything I care about" and the "I'm interested in the prestige", and it's pretty cringe worthy. He's in the rare position of being able to devote substantial time and effort into something positive (he could volunteer for 30 hours a week somewhere and still have plenty of time to relax and pursue his hobbies) but instead he wants to sink a bunch of money in a pointless masturbatory ego-boost.

All that said, you're right. It's his money and it's his choice how he spends it. OP, no one here can really help you because you have no criteria beyond your personal whims. Go to whichever school you like more. It doesn't matter.

[NYSprague]

Did anyone link to that New York Times business article that featured the golden gate dean? I meant to link to it earlier.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/busin ... d=all&_r=0

[rickgrimes69]

But in my case, as I've said, I don't care about the money.

There's a vast difference between having a disposable income and not caring about money. You certainly seem like the latter. How you want to live your life and what legacy you want to leave are entirely up to you. But I think it is socially irresponsible and morally reprehensible to throw abundant stacks of cash at a school so you can feel worthwhile saying you're a lawyer.

The sanctimony ITT is getting difficult to stomach. No, it is not "morally reprehensible" for the OP to decide he wants to pay the price a law school is charging to attend. Nor is it self-destructive or stupid. The OP is making a reasonably well-informed choice about trying out a career late in life. Yeah, he's making a few of the idealized assumptions that many 0Ls make, but his outlook, overall, seems realistic.

[moneybagsphd]

Did anyone link to that New York Times business article that featured the golden gate dean? I meant to link to it earlier.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/busin ... d=all&_r=0

I am unsympathetic. A merit scholarship is just that. We need to have more rewards for excellence and we need to be careful not to dilute the meaning of excellence in the process. Anyone who thinks that it will be "easy" to be one of the best and then loses their scholarship due to failure to perform at that level shows insufficient merit. Why bother calling it a merit scholarship if you don't have to be one of the best?

[Ti Malice]

Also, if you're looking for something intellectually stimulating, law school is like the last kind of school you should be enrolling in.

Believe it, OP.

After two years in, it's kind of baffling to me that I actually once thought otherwise. That notion is so completely unfamiliar to me now that I really can't even artificially recreate it anymore.

[OutCold]

I've been on here for years and it still took me about 10 minutes to figure out what GGU was referring to. That really just sums it up right there.

[marksteere]

I've been on here for years and it still took me about 10 minutes to figure out what GGU was referring to. That really just sums it up right there.

Yes, it does. You must be out cold, lol

[marksteere]

Also, if you're looking for something intellectually stimulating, law school is like the last kind of school you should be enrolling in.

Believe it, OP.

After two years in, it's kind of baffling to me that I actually once thought otherwise. That notion is so completely unfamiliar to me now that I really can't even artificially recreate it anymore.

That's ok. I think intellectual stimulation is overrated.

[marksteere]

I lost any interest.

If only...

lol, seriously This is a decent forum considering its name. There was hardly any of the snottiness I anticipated. Yes, there was sanctimony. But there was also a lot of excellent feedback. Some of you provided encouragement and I'm grateful. Some of you actually defended me. That was a rare treat. It confirms my belief that lawyers are a good bunch of guys. And ladies. (And TheSpanishMain, lol)

Sorry, just "giving back" so to speak