WUSTL $$$ v NU @ Sticker - Resolved 6/27/14 Forum

[workaholic82]

a while back i did the calculations for another NU admit who was evaluating sticker with $30k parental assistance
so that matches your sitch
however he estimated living expenses at $20k yearly which i thought was too low, considering room, board, wardrobe, computer, travel, etc

Tuition (for 2013-2014 academic year) - $54,764
Living expenses - $20,000
Parent's help - ($10,000)

Net COA 1L (3.64% inflation) - $66,575
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over three years - $3,603
Plus origination fee - $1,976
Plus interest over three years - $9,741

Net COA 2L (3.64% inflation) - $68,824
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over two years - $2,336
Plus origination fee - $2,072
Plus interest over two years - $6,592

Net COA 3L (3.64% inflation) - $70,965
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over one year - $1,136
Plus origination fee - $2,164
Plus interest over one year - $3,331

Total Net COA: $206,364
Total paid in loan fees: $6,872
Total paid in interest: $26,739
Total debt at graduation: $239,975

if op provides concrete numbers for COL i can do the math and include interest for deferment period and total costs over 10 years

This is awesome. I would be getting slightly more assistance than this gentleman. half of my 35,000.00 will not be accruing interest as it is subsidized stafford, and the other half will only be accruing at 5%. I would be saving closer to $40,000+ by living at home, rather than $30,000.00, and the interest that's accruing all the while will be less due to these discrepancies. As such, I would estimate my debt at graduation would be closer to $220K, as I projected earlier.

[workaholic82]

True. In the event I don't get an SA/BigLaw, what's wrong with just PAYE-ing this for 20 years, at which point I'll be 55. I can then settle with the IRS for whatever the tax liability is. They can't squeeze blood from a stone, and are often willing to settle when it's the only way they can get their money.

What if you have a kid and you want to help them attend college?

This is a great point, but look, I didn't have much assistance attending college. Cycle of life. It can be done without assistance. If I'm lucky and have a successful career beginning with BigLaw, money will not be an issue. If not, my children will have a similar situation as I currently do, which is not that bad...

[Fiero85]

Man if you gotta do all that just to approach 200k or less debt that sounds bad.

I'm biased towards WUSTL as well, but I can say objectively if I were you as an old dude with previous debt still I would def choose WUSTL. COL loans plus interest minus wages during school should be way better than your offer at NU.

Snap out of the NU thing, living at home is a stretch by your own admittance and would suck as an old.

You're obviously smart/capable though so you gotta stay true to you if really can't stand choosing WUSTL over NU. Just consider you have a abut a 1/3 chance of being colossally fucked, and a 2/3 chance at working a demanding job with shit take home pay for a decade or more. That's hardly winning either.

[03152016]

a while back i did the calculations for another NU admit who was evaluating sticker with $30k parental assistance
so that matches your sitch
however he estimated living expenses at $20k yearly which i thought was too low, considering room, board, wardrobe, computer, travel, etc

Tuition (for 2013-2014 academic year) - $54,764
Living expenses - $20,000
Parent's help - ($10,000)

Net COA 1L (3.64% inflation) - $66,575
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over three years - $3,603
Plus origination fee - $1,976
Plus interest over three years - $9,741

Net COA 2L (3.64% inflation) - $68,824
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over two years - $2,336
Plus origination fee - $2,072
Plus interest over two years - $6,592

Net COA 3L (3.64% inflation) - $70,965
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over one year - $1,136
Plus origination fee - $2,164
Plus interest over one year - $3,331

Total Net COA: $206,364
Total paid in loan fees: $6,872
Total paid in interest: $26,739
Total debt at graduation: $239,975

if op provides concrete numbers for COL i can do the math and include interest for deferment period and total costs over 10 years

This is awesome. I would be getting slightly more assistance than this gentleman. half of my 35,000.00 will not be accruing interest as it is subsidized stafford, and the other half will only be accruing at 5%. I would be saving closer to $40,000+ by living at home, rather than $30,000.00, and the interest that's accruing all the while will be less due to these discrepancies. As such, I would estimate my debt at graduation would be closer to $220K, as I projected earlier.

i think you're misinterpreting the data
the stafford listed is a stafford grad loan, are you referring to your ug debt?
let's clarify plz
do you have the option of zero costs for room and board? and is your UG debt 35k, half subsidized, half not? i can run the numbers, i have to know what i'm running tho

[workaholic82]

Man if you gotta do all that just to approach 200k or less debt that sounds bad.

I'm biased towards WUSTL as well, but I can say objectively if I were you as an old dude with previous debt still I would def choose WUSTL. COL loans plus interest minus wages during school should be way better than your offer at NU.

Snap out of the NU thing, living at home is a stretch by your own admittance and would suck as an old.

You're obviously smart/capable though so you gotta stay true to you if really can't stand choosing WUSTL over NU. Just consider you have a abut a 1/3 chance of being colossally fucked, and a 2/3 chance at working a demanding job with shit take home pay for a decade or more. That's hardly winning either.

Thanks man, I'm mostly trying to play devil's advocate with the whole NU thing. Not sure which I'm going to pick yet, gotta have a conversation with the folks about potential assistance they can provide, which I anticipate is little. I am not really advocating either side for myself yet, just trying to play around with different ideas/scenarios, and I really appreciate all you awesome people jumping in with your opinions. I very well may see you at WUSTL next year, and I'll thank you in person if I do.

[Johann]

Op is underestimating his final loan total, but everyone in this thread is grossly underestimating paye/ibr. What is going to stress you out least: a diploma from wustl instead of nw or 250k debt instead of 100?
You sound bent on nw.

[workaholic82]

a while back i did the calculations for another NU admit who was evaluating sticker with $30k parental assistance
so that matches your sitch
however he estimated living expenses at $20k yearly which i thought was too low, considering room, board, wardrobe, computer, travel, etc

Tuition (for 2013-2014 academic year) - $54,764
Living expenses - $20,000
Parent's help - ($10,000)

Net COA 1L (3.64% inflation) - $66,575
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over three years - $3,603
Plus origination fee - $1,976
Plus interest over three years - $9,741

Net COA 2L (3.64% inflation) - $68,824
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over two years - $2,336
Plus origination fee - $2,072
Plus interest over two years - $6,592

Net COA 3L (3.64% inflation) - $70,965
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over one year - $1,136
Plus origination fee - $2,164
Plus interest over one year - $3,331

Total Net COA: $206,364
Total paid in loan fees: $6,872
Total paid in interest: $26,739
Total debt at graduation: $239,975

if op provides concrete numbers for COL i can do the math and include interest for deferment period and total costs over 10 years

This is awesome. I would be getting slightly more assistance than this gentleman. half of my 35,000.00 will not be accruing interest as it is subsidized stafford, and the other half will only be accruing at 5%. I would be saving closer to $40,000+ by living at home, rather than $30,000.00, and the interest that's accruing all the while will be less due to these discrepancies. As such, I would estimate my debt at graduation would be closer to $220K, as I projected earlier.

i think you're misinterpreting the data
the stafford listed is a stafford grad loan, are you referring to your ug debt?
let's clarify plz
do you have the option of zero costs for room and board? and is your UG debt 35k, half subsidized, half not? i can run the numbers, i have to know what i'm running tho

Sorry, yes, my undergrad loans are half subsidized, so zero interest, and the other half averages 5%. If I live at home, I would have free food and no rent, so would save approximately 12-15K per year I anticipate. I would have to spend maybe $2.5K in gas per year. I don't go out often, so not too much in social costs. I have $10K in personal savings and a 30K scholarship. What else would help you with the calculations?

[chuckbass]

True. In the event I don't get an SA/BigLaw, what's wrong with just PAYE-ing this for 20 years, at which point I'll be 55. I can then settle with the IRS for whatever the tax liability is. They can't squeeze blood from a stone, and are often willing to settle when it's the only way they can get their money.

What if you have a kid and you want to help them attend college?

This is a great point, but look, I didn't have much assistance attending college. Cycle of life. It can be done without assistance. If I'm lucky and have a successful career beginning with BigLaw, money will not be an issue. If not, my children will have a similar situation as I currently do, which is not that bad...

I was just using that as an example, just showing you that you might be putting yourself in a situation that financially binds you in a way that is not just limited to yourself.

[workaholic82]

Op is underestimating his final loan total, but everyone in this thread is grossly underestimating paye/ibr. What is going to stress you out least: a diploma from wustl instead of nw or 250k debt instead of 100?
You sound bent on nw.

No, I promise I'm not, but I am doing my best to justify it and gauge the responses so I can determine how bad a mistake it would be... I honestly am pretty split 50/50 right now. Obviously costs equal I'd LOVE to do NU, but I'm just seeing if there's any way I can frame it as an objectively wiser decision.

[03152016]

a while back i did the calculations for another NU admit who was evaluating sticker with $30k parental assistance
so that matches your sitch
however he estimated living expenses at $20k yearly which i thought was too low, considering room, board, wardrobe, computer, travel, etc

Tuition (for 2013-2014 academic year) - $54,764
Living expenses - $20,000
Parent's help - ($10,000)

Net COA 1L (3.64% inflation) - $66,575
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over three years - $3,603
Plus origination fee - $1,976
Plus interest over three years - $9,741

Net COA 2L (3.64% inflation) - $68,824
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over two years - $2,336
Plus origination fee - $2,072
Plus interest over two years - $6,592

Net COA 3L (3.64% inflation) - $70,965
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over one year - $1,136
Plus origination fee - $2,164
Plus interest over one year - $3,331

Total Net COA: $206,364
Total paid in loan fees: $6,872
Total paid in interest: $26,739
Total debt at graduation: $239,975

if op provides concrete numbers for COL i can do the math and include interest for deferment period and total costs over 10 years

This is awesome. I would be getting slightly more assistance than this gentleman. half of my 35,000.00 will not be accruing interest as it is subsidized stafford, and the other half will only be accruing at 5%. I would be saving closer to $40,000+ by living at home, rather than $30,000.00, and the interest that's accruing all the while will be less due to these discrepancies. As such, I would estimate my debt at graduation would be closer to $220K, as I projected earlier.

i think you're misinterpreting the data
the stafford listed is a stafford grad loan, are you referring to your ug debt?
let's clarify plz
do you have the option of zero costs for room and board? and is your UG debt 35k, half subsidized, half not? i can run the numbers, i have to know what i'm running tho

Sorry, yes, my undergrad loans are half subsidized, so zero interest, and the other half averages 5%. If I live at home, I would have free food and no rent, so would save approximately 12-15K per year I anticipate. I would have to spend maybe $2.5K in gas per year. I don't go out often, so not too much in social costs. I have $10K in personal savings and a 30K scholarship. What else would help you with the calculations?

that's all. i won't subtract those savings from the debt total -- you HAVE TO have a decent emergency fund, esp given the field we're going into. be back in a bit.

[workaholic82]

True. In the event I don't get an SA/BigLaw, what's wrong with just PAYE-ing this for 20 years, at which point I'll be 55. I can then settle with the IRS for whatever the tax liability is. They can't squeeze blood from a stone, and are often willing to settle when it's the only way they can get their money.

What if you have a kid and you want to help them attend college?

This is a great point, but look, I didn't have much assistance attending college. Cycle of life. It can be done without assistance. If I'm lucky and have a successful career beginning with BigLaw, money will not be an issue. If not, my children will have a similar situation as I currently do, which is not that bad...

I was just using that as an example, just showing you that you might be putting yourself in a situation that financially binds you in a way that is not just limited to yourself.

I concede that's a possibility. But that is something whomever I share my life with will know before-hand. I would not hide my situation from anyone, so if I wind up in a financially unenviable position, that is something I'll have to adopt as part of who I am. Everyone has certain crosses to bear. Not saying I'm doing it, but just saying that if I wound up in a bad spot, it's something I'd have to deal with, and would not hide it from anyone.

[Fiero85]

Man if you gotta do all that just to approach 200k or less debt that sounds bad.

I'm biased towards WUSTL as well, but I can say objectively if I were you as an old dude with previous debt still I would def choose WUSTL. COL loans plus interest minus wages during school should be way better than your offer at NU.

Snap out of the NU thing, living at home is a stretch by your own admittance and would suck as an old.

You're obviously smart/capable though so you gotta stay true to you if really can't stand choosing WUSTL over NU. Just consider you have a abut a 1/3 chance of being colossally fucked, and a 2/3 chance at working a demanding job with shit take home pay for a decade or more. That's hardly winning either.

Thanks man, I'm mostly trying to play devil's advocate with the whole NU thing. Not sure which I'm going to pick yet, gotta have a conversation with the folks about potential assistance they can provide, which I anticipate is little. I am not really advocating either side for myself yet, just trying to play around with different ideas/scenarios, and I really appreciate all you awesome people jumping in with your opinions. I very well may see you at WUSTL next year, and I'll thank you in person if I do.

No problem dude, good luck. It's a tough one to decide I'm sure.

At least you're finally an example of someone old enough and with a super high enough LSAT that we can put the retake-intervention-routine to bed, for once. Other 0Ls reading this take note: we do back off on retaking when it makes sense, but that probably ain't you. It's not a universal vendetta, just the right prescription for the common applicant

[workaholic82]

Man if you gotta do all that just to approach 200k or less debt that sounds bad.

I'm biased towards WUSTL as well, but I can say objectively if I were you as an old dude with previous debt still I would def choose WUSTL. COL loans plus interest minus wages during school should be way better than your offer at NU.

Snap out of the NU thing, living at home is a stretch by your own admittance and would suck as an old.

You're obviously smart/capable though so you gotta stay true to you if really can't stand choosing WUSTL over NU. Just consider you have a abut a 1/3 chance of being colossally fucked, and a 2/3 chance at working a demanding job with shit take home pay for a decade or more. That's hardly winning either.

Thanks man, I'm mostly trying to play devil's advocate with the whole NU thing. Not sure which I'm going to pick yet, gotta have a conversation with the folks about potential assistance they can provide, which I anticipate is little. I am not really advocating either side for myself yet, just trying to play around with different ideas/scenarios, and I really appreciate all you awesome people jumping in with your opinions. I very well may see you at WUSTL next year, and I'll thank you in person if I do.

No problem dude, good luck. It's a tough one to decide I'm sure.

At least you're finally an example of someone old enough and with a super high enough LSAT that we can put the retake-intervention-routine to bed, for once. Other 0Ls reading this take note: we do back off on retaking when it makes sense, but that probably ain't you. It's not a universal vendetta, just the right prescription for the common applicant

LOL, true. I wish I could retake my g_d d$%mn GPA, but I'm stuck with the splitter's dilemma.

[chuckbass]

Man if you gotta do all that just to approach 200k or less debt that sounds bad.

I'm biased towards WUSTL as well, but I can say objectively if I were you as an old dude with previous debt still I would def choose WUSTL. COL loans plus interest minus wages during school should be way better than your offer at NU.

Snap out of the NU thing, living at home is a stretch by your own admittance and would suck as an old.

You're obviously smart/capable though so you gotta stay true to you if really can't stand choosing WUSTL over NU. Just consider you have a abut a 1/3 chance of being colossally fucked, and a 2/3 chance at working a demanding job with shit take home pay for a decade or more. That's hardly winning either.

Thanks man, I'm mostly trying to play devil's advocate with the whole NU thing. Not sure which I'm going to pick yet, gotta have a conversation with the folks about potential assistance they can provide, which I anticipate is little. I am not really advocating either side for myself yet, just trying to play around with different ideas/scenarios, and I really appreciate all you awesome people jumping in with your opinions. I very well may see you at WUSTL next year, and I'll thank you in person if I do.

No problem dude, good luck. It's a tough one to decide I'm sure.

At least you're finally an example of someone old enough and with a super high enough LSAT that we can put the retake-intervention-routine to bed, for once. Other 0Ls reading this take note: we do back off on retaking when it makes sense, but that probably ain't you. It's not a universal vendetta, just the right prescription for the common applicant

If you do go to WUSTL, fierowhatever and I are pretty cool, idk if that contributes to your decision though

[Johann]

How often do you think about your current 35k in the hole? does that weigh on you and your life?

[workaholic82]

Man if you gotta do all that just to approach 200k or less debt that sounds bad.

I'm biased towards WUSTL as well, but I can say objectively if I were you as an old dude with previous debt still I would def choose WUSTL. COL loans plus interest minus wages during school should be way better than your offer at NU.

Snap out of the NU thing, living at home is a stretch by your own admittance and would suck as an old.

You're obviously smart/capable though so you gotta stay true to you if really can't stand choosing WUSTL over NU. Just consider you have a abut a 1/3 chance of being colossally fucked, and a 2/3 chance at working a demanding job with shit take home pay for a decade or more. That's hardly winning either.

Thanks man, I'm mostly trying to play devil's advocate with the whole NU thing. Not sure which I'm going to pick yet, gotta have a conversation with the folks about potential assistance they can provide, which I anticipate is little. I am not really advocating either side for myself yet, just trying to play around with different ideas/scenarios, and I really appreciate all you awesome people jumping in with your opinions. I very well may see you at WUSTL next year, and I'll thank you in person if I do.

No problem dude, good luck. It's a tough one to decide I'm sure.

At least you're finally an example of someone old enough and with a super high enough LSAT that we can put the retake-intervention-routine to bed, for once. Other 0Ls reading this take note: we do back off on retaking when it makes sense, but that probably ain't you. It's not a universal vendetta, just the right prescription for the common applicant

If you do go to WUSTL, fierowhatever and I are pretty cool, idk if that contributes to your decision though

lol, well why didn't you say so? I coulda skipped this whole advice thread thing and told NU to get lost a long time ago! But srsly, I've met and talked to lots of cool WUSTL peeps. That's certainly not lacking at WUSTL. NU, on the other hand, is an unknown commodity in that respect...

JK, NU peeps rock too!

[workaholic82]

How often do you think about your current 35k in the hole? does that weigh on you and your life?

Really not at all. I've had it deferred for long periods of unemployment and this past year had it on a $200/month auto-pay that I wasn't even conscious of most of the time. It has no tangible impact on my life. I have an excellent credit score that apparently isn't affected either.

[Onomatopoeia]

id just like to say one last time: go to wustl and bust your ass man.

NU is not that prestigious. with ur work experience, ull be a standout in wustl but merely one of many experienced candidates out of NU. you have a fallback of a shitty paralegal job, and i would bet on you to at least have a much better job than that with previous legal experience and now a jd from a solid school under your belt. with the money u save, you can hope to begin investing in real estate and in the market. the compound interest in your favor is something u cannot overlook. it seems like ur uGPA is not terribly representative of your intellect. i get a feeling that you can be at median or better at washU.

[workaholic82]

id just like to say one last time: go to wustl and bust your ass man.

NU is not that prestigious. with ur work experience, ull be a standout in wustl but merely one of many experienced candidates out of NU. you have a fallback of a shitty paralegal job, and i would bet on you to at least have a much better job than that with previous legal experience and now a jd from a solid school under your belt. with the money u save, you can hope to begin investing in real estate and in the market. the compound interest in your favor is something u cannot overlook. it seems like ur uGPA is not terribly representative of your intellect. i get a feeling that you can be at median or better at washU.

Thanks for this. I definitely am considering this, and it makes lots of sense. I have, however, heard some iffy things about WUSTL's OCI, regarding only certain types of ppl getting most of the good jobs. I've heard these things from current students, and it makes me feel like the only real hope of getting BigLaw from WUSTL is in transferring, and even then I'm not sure of the outcome transfers face...

[Johann]

Yeah I wouldn't think of nw as that prestigious either. Can't think that way to make a rational decision. Great school but wustl can take you where you need to go also. And both are capable of leaving you high and dry. Anyways good luck with the decision. I don't think you have a bad choice in front of you. Both will be huge upgrades from your current gig.

[workaholic82]

Yeah I wouldn't think of nw as that prestigious either. Can't think that way to make a rational decision. Great school but wustl can take you where you need to go also. And both are capable of leaving you high and dry. Anyways good luck with the decision. I don't think you have a bad choice in front of you. Both will be huge upgrades from your current gig.

Thanks. I also think they'll both lead to an upgraded life for me, and I appreciate you saying it.

[yadiermolina]

Early decision NU next cycle? Thoughts everyone?

[snagglepuss]

Early decision NU next cycle? Thoughts everyone?

<1% chance with a 2.4 GPA. Not an option (remember OP was accepted off the waitlist).

[chuckbass]

Early decision NU next cycle? Thoughts everyone?

<1% chance with a 2.4 GPA. Not an option (remember OP was accepted off the waitlist).

The 177 is impressive, but it doesn't do more for them then any other score above the 75th percentile. No way it's worth a full ride with that 2.4.

[workaholic82]

Early decision NU next cycle? Thoughts everyone?

<1% chance with a 2.4 GPA. Not an option (remember OP was accepted off the waitlist).

Yea, I actually applied ED this year and was held, so I doubt the result would be different next year... it may actually have helped me get in off the waitlist though, for others looking. Johann did say in a Q&A session that applying ED gives you a leg up when it comes time to pick ppl off the waitlist...