PSA: forget about specialties or professors--take the money Forum

[09042014]

You're talking about paying six figures to increase your odds of getting something from almost impossible to extremely unlikely (if we're talking about Yale. Still "almost impossible" if H, just a little bit less so). Also, for a lot of the jobs you just listed, experience is huge (especially academia). It's one thing to pick Y because you want academia AND you also have a top tier phd in econ. If that past sentence describes you, then general TLS advice doesn't apply to you. It's an entirely different beast if you're K-JD or if you have a couple years of "meh" WE.

Well, I wouldn't go any deeper into what I want to do. No point.
I don't really think any 0L should adopt this attitude: "The probability that I will be able to pursue a public service career is so small. So I might as well just go to the cheapest school and just try to get a biglaw job." Especially given that the schools I mentioned are Yale and Harvard, that attitude doesn't make much sense.

It's downright stupid not to compare the cost of your slightly increased chances. Yale and Harvard might be way better at academia, but it's going from a 1% chance to a 4% change. 3% better odds at getting academia isn't worth 150k. SCOTUS clerking is even dumber since it's low odds and is only temporary.

I haven't seen any evidence YHS gives any huge boost for government. Government isn't elite. It's just tough recently since the hiring freezes.

I don't really think it's "1% to 4%". After looking at what schools government officials are coming from, the change, it seems, is much greater than that.

Why don't you think that.

What government officials are you talking about. YHS isn't putting very many people into government.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Yes, I know exactly how scarcity works. Please elaborate

[ymmv]

Yes, I know exactly how scarcity works. Please elaborate

Students at TTTs aren't missing out on jobs because of baseless elitism. They're missing out on jobs because there aren't any jobs, and the small handful there are are going to (gasp) the students who went to schools requiring roughly the highest GPAs and test scores (also with the best historical alumni networks, which is not quite what elitism means).

[manu6926]

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[Hipster but Athletic]

Yes, I know exactly how scarcity works. Please elaborate

Students at TTTs aren't missing out on jobs because of baseless elitism. They're missing out on jobs because there aren't any jobs, and the small handful there are are going to (gasp) the students who went to schools requiring roughly the highest GPAs and test scores (also with the best historical alumni networks, which is not quite what elitism means).

When did I ever say anything that remotely resembled this argument? Rayiner said that people electing to go schools for other reasons is detrimental to the entire law school community. The opposite is true, for the reasons that I said, and nothing close to what you said.

[09042014]

Why don't you think that.

What government officials are you talking about. YHS isn't putting very many people into government.

The ambassadors, secretaries, under-secretaries, etc etc. S doesn't really apply, due to their class size I guess.

Government, clerkships and academia.

Now do you think these people are getting these position because people low HLS or because they already had connections?

[manu6926]

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[Pragmatic Gun]

I can imagine that YHS's alumni network would be immensely beneficial to those gunning for the top. You got your connections right there. I can also imagine that your classmates at those schools will be connected to elite positions somehow. Of course, it all depends on how diligent one would be in pursuing these connections. But I see YHS being much more beneficial to such a law student than perhaps GW, Fordham, etc. I have no evidence, though.

[rad lulz]

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[09042014]

I can imagine that YHS's alumni network would be immensely beneficial to those gunning for the top. You got your connections right there. I can also imagine that your classmates at those schools will be connected to elite positions somehow. Of course, it all depends on how diligent one would be in pursuing these connections. But I see YHS being much more beneficial to such a law student than perhaps GW, Fordham, etc. I have no evidence, though.

It's not a matter of it just being better. It has to be some much better as to make turning down a fullride at Georgetown worth it. And it's just not. The vast majority of HLS students end up on the same track as Cornell students.

A regular HLS grad isn't a shoo-in for prestigious gov work. And the type of politically connected jobs the 0L was talking about I doubt it really helps.

[manu6926]

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[Elston Gunn]

It's downright stupid not to compare the cost of your slightly increased chances. Yale and Harvard might be way better at academia, but it's going from a 1% chance to a 4% change. 3% better odds at getting academia isn't worth 150k. SCOTUS clerking is even dumber since it's low odds and is only temporary.

I haven't seen any evidence YHS gives any huge boost for government. Government isn't elite. It's just tough recently since the hiring freezes.

The hiring data is difficult to compare without good data on what employment outcomes the students were shooting for.

I wonder how big of boost you get from YHS compared to CCN in big law hiring?

In terms of odds for getting any Biglaw job, marginal boost (maybe 5%-10%?). Bigger boost at "elite" firms.

[09042014]

Going to hys bc you want legal academia (unless you've already published shit/have a phd) is really stupid and maybe even if you have the shit I mentioned

Enjoy bouncing from vap to vap while law schools offer voluntary buyouts to faculty

Shut up. Not everyone wants to be like you (if you are one of those NU grads in biglaw).

You are going to be so fucking bitter as a first year at Quinn.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Going to hys bc you want legal academia (unless you've already published shit/have a phd) is really stupid and maybe even if you have the shit I mentioned

Enjoy bouncing from vap to vap while law schools offer voluntary buyouts to faculty

Shut up. Not everyone wants to be like you (if you are one of those NU grads in biglaw).

He's not. He's also not wrong about legal academia.

[manu6926]

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[quijotesca1011]

Going to hys bc you want legal academia (unless you've already published shit/have a phd) is really stupid and maybe even if you have the shit I mentioned

Enjoy bouncing from vap to vap while law schools offer voluntary buyouts to faculty

Shut up. Not everyone wants to be like you (if you are one of those NU grads in biglaw).

honestly I think that was a healthy dose of realism…maybe not gently delivered, but I don't think the argument here was 'everyone should do big law' (i.e. I don't think he was saying everyone should want to be like him). It was instead a realistic assessment given that academia hiring is extremely tight across the board right now. Is it going to be impossible? Probably not. But possibly close. At least if you are talking about directly entering academia following law school (having a career and then crossing over into academia might be a different question)… I argued on some premises of the OP but you can't really argue this.

[manu6926]

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[worldtraveler]

Going to hys bc you want legal academia (unless you've already published shit/have a phd) is really stupid and maybe even if you have the shit I mentioned

Enjoy bouncing from vap to vap while law schools offer voluntary buyouts to faculty

Shut up. Not everyone wants to be like you (if you are one of those NU grads in biglaw).

He's not. He's also not wrong about legal academia.

I'm the poster child for unicorn snowflake careers and not following conventional advice, and I even agree with rad and rayiner.

[quijotesca1011]

Going to hys bc you want legal academia (unless you've already published shit/have a phd) is really stupid and maybe even if you have the shit I mentioned

Enjoy bouncing from vap to vap while law schools offer voluntary buyouts to faculty

Shut up. Not everyone wants to be like you (if you are one of those NU grads in biglaw).

He's not. He's also not wrong about legal academia.

even if you have a phd in econ from Chicago and do well in one of YHS? even if you already published things?

honestly, you probably have a much better chance, but might seriously have consider looking at working places that aren't top on your place to live. (that's my impression at least).

[DELG]

LOL @ manu's professorship prospects

You'll come back and show us huh

[manu6926]

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[njdevils2626]

Going to hys bc you want legal academia (unless you've already published shit/have a phd) is really stupid and maybe even if you have the shit I mentioned

Enjoy bouncing from vap to vap while law schools offer voluntary buyouts to faculty

Shut up. Not everyone wants to be like you (if you are one of those NU grads in biglaw).

He's not. He's also not wrong about legal academia.

even if you have a phd in econ from Chicago and do well in one of YHS? even if you already published things?

I can't tell if you're illiterate or what's going on here... I mean, those are literally the two qualifiers that rad stated might make it worth it. What are you arguing?

[A. Nony Mouse]

even if you have a phd in econ from Chicago and do well in one of YHS? even if you already published things?

I mean, that will help, there are still just very few jobs out there.

[09042014]

I can imagine that YHS's alumni network would be immensely beneficial to those gunning for the top. You got your connections right there. I can also imagine that your classmates at those schools will be connected to elite positions somehow. Of course, it all depends on how diligent one would be in pursuing these connections. But I see YHS being much more beneficial to such a law student than perhaps GW, Fordham, etc. I have no evidence, though.

It's not a matter of it just being better. It has to be some much better as to make turning down a fullride at Georgetown worth it. And it's just not. The vast majority of HLS students end up on the same track as Cornell students.

A regular HLS grad isn't a shoo-in for prestigious gov work. And the type of politically connected jobs the 0L was talking about I doubt it really helps.

HLS at least gives you a reasonable shot at clerkships, gov and academia, even consulting and investment banking. School choices should be made expecting that you'll likely end up graduating with median grades. It's unreasonable to expect that you will fall in the bottom 25% before even starting.

Georgetown probably has been government placement. Nobody does consulting and IB, and why would you want to.

Academia? Almost nobody from HLS does it. And that was when schools were growing. With student enrollment falling good fucking luck. YOu'll need good grades, publications, luck, and worst of all, you'll have to trash all your private sector job opportunities to pursue it.

Clerkships is probably the only area HLS is a huge boost. And guess what, it's still not worth the money. It's a one year gig and you end up right back where everyone else does.

[manu6926]

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