Class of 2013 Employment Data Forum

[kaiser]

http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... duates.pdf

NYU

58.3% + 8.8% = 67.1%

Just came across these numbers as well, and came up with the same percentages. Unsurprising that NYU also had higher % of public interest placement than any of the other top schools aside from Yale.

Worth noting that it's very likely that 40% of the public service placement (Gov't or PI) came from school-funded positions.

If thats where school-funded positions are grouped, I would guess you could say the same for every school then (i.e. that some portion of their Gov/PI placement is really just school-funded positions).

[lawschool22]

http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... duates.pdf

NYU

58.3% + 8.8% = 67.1%

Just came across these numbers as well, and came up with the same percentages. Unsurprising that NYU also had higher % of public interest placement than any of the other top schools aside from Yale.

Worth noting that it's very likely that 40% of the public service placement (Gov't or PI) came from school-funded positions.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. From what I can tell most of NYU's school-funded positions are decent gigs, and can often be the foot in the door you need to get full-time employment in PI. In some ways the fact that there is a safety net like that exists with a school that has funding for these things could provide some comfort.

I fully agree with you that it is important information to consider when looking at these numbers.

[lawschool22]

http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... duates.pdf

NYU

58.3% + 8.8% = 67.1%

Just came across these numbers as well, and came up with the same percentages. Unsurprising that NYU also had higher % of public interest placement than any of the other top schools aside from Yale.

Also explains NYU's slightly lower combined rate. I would imagine a certain portion (I have no idea how much) of NYU's PI people could have also landed a biglaw gig or federal clerkship, and that this percentage may be slightly higher than other peer schools due to self-selection. I don't know how to quantify this though, just a hunch.

[04102014]

http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... duates.pdf

NYU

58.3% + 8.8% = 67.1%

Just came across these numbers as well, and came up with the same percentages. Unsurprising that NYU also had higher % of public interest placement than any of the other top schools aside from Yale.

Also explains NYU's slightly lower combined rate. I would imagine a certain portion (I have no idea how much) of NYU's PI people could have also landed a biglaw gig or federal clerkship, and that this percentage may be slightly higher than other peer schools due to self-selection. I don't know how to quantify this though, just a hunch.

Yeah, this has been common NYU mantra for a while. Since there is no way to quantify it, however, I consider these numbers (biglaw + fed clerkships) a solid guide.

[kaiser]

http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... duates.pdf

NYU

58.3% + 8.8% = 67.1%

Just came across these numbers as well, and came up with the same percentages. Unsurprising that NYU also had higher % of public interest placement than any of the other top schools aside from Yale.

Also explains NYU's slightly lower combined rate. I would imagine a certain portion (I have no idea how much) of NYU's PI people could have also landed a biglaw gig or federal clerkship, and that this percentage may be slightly higher than other peer schools due to self-selection. I don't know how to quantify this though, just a hunch.

I'm sure its true to some extent. Multiple of the top folks on my journal went into PI. Obviously they could have gotten biglaw if they wanted it (one had a Cravath offer since he was a bit more torn on the biglaw vs. PI route, but ultimately went PI). I'm sure everyone at the school has anecdotes about PI students who could have gotten biglaw, but of course no way to quantify this. But thats certainly not a reason to entirely discount it. But again, you could probably say the same for CLS students who went PI, so its not like its unique to our PI students.

[jenesaislaw]

If thats where school-funded positions are grouped, I would guess you could say the same for every school then (i.e. that some portion of their Gov/PI placement is really just school-funded positions).

Yes, but not all schools have the ability to afford (m/any) long-term, full-time school-funded jobs.

As lawschool22 points out, this is not necessarily a bad thing. These graduates are better off than they would have been had they not had school-funded jobs. It's probably not what they would have wanted when starting law school, and it's unclear how well they're doing after the job. To me that's the difference between the graduate perspective and the applicant's perspective.

[cotiger]

http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... duates.pdf

NYU

58.3% + 8.8% = 67.1%

360/537 = 67.0%

You're adding rounded numbers

[francesfarmer]

If thats where school-funded positions are grouped, I would guess you could say the same for every school then (i.e. that some portion of their Gov/PI placement is really just school-funded positions).

Yes, but not all schools have the ability to afford (m/any) long-term, full-time school-funded jobs.

As lawschool22 points out, this is not necessarily a bad thing. These graduates are better off than they would have been had they not had school-funded jobs. It's probably not what they would have wanted when starting law school, and it's unclear how well they're doing after the job. To me that's the difference between the graduate perspective and the applicant's perspective.

Anecdote: my department recently hired an attorney from CCN who had a school-funded position at a nonprofit for a year. She was doing temp work in the interim. She makes like $50k I think (I almost make that much/please kill me), but the position is LRAP eligible, so she's fine.

[jenesaislaw]

If thats where school-funded positions are grouped, I would guess you could say the same for every school then (i.e. that some portion of their Gov/PI placement is really just school-funded positions).

Yes, but not all schools have the ability to afford (m/any) long-term, full-time school-funded jobs.

As lawschool22 points out, this is not necessarily a bad thing. These graduates are better off than they would have been had they not had school-funded jobs. It's probably not what they would have wanted when starting law school, and it's unclear how well they're doing after the job. To me that's the difference between the graduate perspective and the applicant's perspective.

Anecdote: my department recently hired an attorney from CCN who had a school-funded position at a nonprofit for a year. She was doing temp work in the interim. She makes like $50k I think (I almost make that much/please kill me), but the position is LRAP eligible, so she's fine.

Another anecdote: one of LST's founding board members, an NYU grad, was in a school-funded position and transitioned into a paid position. NYU's LRAP is also insanely generous. So although it wasn't bar passage required, she still qualified.

[04102014]

http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... duates.pdf

NYU

58.3% + 8.8% = 67.1%

360/537 = 67.0%

You're adding rounded numbers

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ManoftheHour]

Florida Coastal: 0.5 + 0.4 = 0.9%

(I think I did that right, but someone double check.)

We're only counting federal clerks here.

Probably a stupid question, but does that mean state clerks are TTT? Just wondering why they don't count towards the clerkship rate on LST.

[DportIA]

Iowa:

(101+ attorneys=27 students) 14.2% + (Fed clerk=12 students) 6.3%= 20.5%

190 total graduates
http://www.law.uiowa.edu/documents/cso_ ... y_2013.pdf

[Tiago Splitter]

Florida Coastal: 0.5 + 0.4 = 0.9%

(I think I did that right, but someone double check.)

We're only counting federal clerks here.

Probably a stupid question, but does that mean state clerks are TTT? Just wondering why they don't count towards the clerkship rate on LST.

State clerks are kind of like PI positions. Some are great and very competitive, others are uncompetitive and not all that likely to improve one's job prospects down the line. Generally the higher up you go in the food chain from trial court to state supreme court the more impressive the clerkship becomes. But GAAP requires us to award no points for state clerkships.

[jenesaislaw]

Florida Coastal: 0.5 + 0.4 = 0.9%

(I think I did that right, but someone double check.)

We're only counting federal clerks here.

Probably a stupid question, but does that mean state clerks are TTT? Just wondering why they don't count towards the clerkship rate on LST.

Well, the "Clerkship Rate" is is actually the "Federal Clerkship Rate." Now as for why we don't emphasize the "Clerkship Rate" instead of "Federal Clerkship Rate" is because federal clerkships are far, far, far more competitive and prestigious and that's something people care about.

(And what Tiago said, especially the GAAP joke.)

[lawschool22]

Florida Coastal: 0.5 + 0.4 = 0.9%

(I think I did that right, but someone double check.)

We're only counting federal clerks here.

Probably a stupid question, but does that mean state clerks are TTT? Just wondering why they don't count towards the clerkship rate on LST.

State clerks are kind of like PI positions. Some are great and very competitive, others are uncompetitive and not all that likely to improve one's job prospects down the line. Generally the higher up you go in the food chain from trial court to state supreme court the more impressive the clerkship becomes. But GAAP requires us to award no points for state clerkships.

Nice GAAP reference there

[lawschool22]

http://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/fi ... duates.pdf

NYU

58.3% + 8.8% = 67.1%

Just came across these numbers as well, and came up with the same percentages. Unsurprising that NYU also had higher % of public interest placement than any of the other top schools aside from Yale.

Also explains NYU's slightly lower combined rate. I would imagine a certain portion (I have no idea how much) of NYU's PI people could have also landed a biglaw gig or federal clerkship, and that this percentage may be slightly higher than other peer schools due to self-selection. I don't know how to quantify this though, just a hunch.

Yeah, this has been common NYU mantra for a while. Since there is no way to quantify it, however, I consider these numbers (biglaw + fed clerkships) a solid guide.

Oh ohpo, you and I both know we are just batting for our respective schools at this point

The way I look at it is I would find it hard to believe that the Columbia vs. NYU biglaw % are that far apart w/o some level of increased self-selection into PI going on at NYU as compared to the rest of CCN and Penn, which lately has garnered a great biglaw reputation.

[04102014]

Oh ohpo, you and I both know we are just batting for our respective schools at this point

The way I look at it is I would find it hard to believe that the Columbia vs. NYU biglaw % are that far apart w/o some level of increased self-selection into PI going on at NYU as compared to the rest of CCN and Penn, which lately has garnered a great biglaw reputation.

But but but





pretty

[francesfarmer]

Oh ohpo, you and I both know we are just batting for our respective schools at this point

The way I look at it is I would find it hard to believe that the Columbia vs. NYU biglaw % are that far apart w/o some level of increased self-selection into PI going on at NYU as compared to the rest of CCN and Penn, which lately has garnered a great biglaw reputation.

But but but





pretty

Which one is that?

[lawschool22]

Oh ohpo, you and I both know we are just batting for our respective schools at this point

The way I look at it is I would find it hard to believe that the Columbia vs. NYU biglaw % are that far apart w/o some level of increased self-selection into PI going on at NYU as compared to the rest of CCN and Penn, which lately has garnered a great biglaw reputation.

But but but





pretty

Not a fan of pink walls

[kaiser]

Oh ohpo, you and I both know we are just batting for our respective schools at this point

The way I look at it is I would find it hard to believe that the Columbia vs. NYU biglaw % are that far apart w/o some level of increased self-selection into PI going on at NYU as compared to the rest of CCN and Penn, which lately has garnered a great biglaw reputation.

But but but





pretty

Which one is that?

Guessing thats Penn? Certainly a nice building right there

[CoffeeIsLife]

LSU is up http://www1.law.lsu.edu/careerservices/ ... tatistics/

7.8% + 3.2% = 11%

218 Graduates

[d cooper]

[francesfarmer]

Guessing thats Penn? Certainly a nice building right there

Yeahhh that makes sense. Full disclosure: I've never been in a law school building.

[Mauve.Dino]

Villanova Law:

13% Big Law + 3% Fed. Clerk = 16%

http://www1.villanova.edu/villanova/law ... tdata.html

[lawschool22]

See NYU c/o 2017 thread for pretty pictures of NYU, ohpo