Cardozo vs. Wash U? Neither? Forum

[03152016]

I don't have a genius plan. I think going in knowing I will drop out if I am not at the top of the class shows that I am pretty level-headed in my expectations for the job market. Just trying to gauge Fordham vs. Cardozo

So, as per your earlier posts, you're in a big rush to start your career as soon as possible and you want to appear successful to your friends, but you're cool with a 90% chance of being a grad school dropout 12 months from now?

Sounds savvy.

[03152016]

Wait are we all being trolled right now

[star fox]

Btw, you're assuming what everyone else on this site does, that you start out making 50k a year and never get a raise. That's absurd. Yea your interest accrues but 7 years later if you are still making 50k a year then you either suck at life or suck at lawyering or both.

I factored in yearly raises into the debt figures. And you pay more on the debt as you earn more, that's the nature of the program.

But since you clearly know better than everyone else, go ahead with this plan of yours and prove us wrong. Surely you have more insight into the legal job market than the hundreds of JDs posting in the Vale who would tell you how stupid six figure debt for a second-tier school is.

Just let us know how you do in a couple of years. I want to know how this ingenious scheme of yours to plunge headfirst into $121k+ of debt to attend a rapidly declining second-tier law school in an oversaturated market with middling employment numbers works out.

I don't have a genius plan. I think going in knowing I will drop out if I am not at the top of the class shows that I am pretty level-headed in my expectations for the job market. Just trying to gauge Fordham vs. Cardozo

If you're super-concerned about the stigma of not going to law school next year, I'm going to guess you're going to be super-duper concerned about the stigma of being a "drop-out". Not to mention then you'll be telling yourself that "I don't want that whole last year of my life to be a complete waste" and you'll probably justify to yourself that you have time to turn it around and will hustle extra hard for jobs.

[03152016]

If you're super-concerned about the stigma of not going to law school next year, I'm going to guess you're going to be super-duper concerned about the stigma of being a "drop-out". Not to mention then you'll be telling yourself that "I don't want that whole last year of my life to be a complete waste" and you'll probably justify to yourself that you have time to turn it around and will hustle extra hard for jobs.

This is exactly what's going to happen.

[ManoftheHour]

I don't have a genius plan. I think going in knowing I will drop out if I am not at the top of the class shows that I am pretty level-headed in my expectations for the job market. Just trying to gauge Fordham vs. Cardozo

Just retake.

[Unicorn1]

I don't have a genius plan. I think going in knowing I will drop out if I am not at the top of the class shows that I am pretty level-headed in my expectations for the job market. Just trying to gauge Fordham vs. Cardozo

So, as per your earlier posts, you're in a big rush to start your career as soon as possible and you want to appear successful to your friends, but you're cool with a 90% chance of being a grad school dropout 12 months from now?

Sounds savvy.

90% of the class not being in the top 10% does not thereby mean that I have a 90% chance of dropping out. Basic LSAT logic my friend.

Doing well on the LSAT isn't beneficial because it helps you get better grades in law school. It's better because it makes your law school bet more economically reasonable and either gives you a better shot at a job or the same shot with lower debt.

Duh. That's the point. If I couldn't do better on the LSAT, it is not necessarily indicative of my inability to do well in law school.

Retaking is just not an option for me anymore. I know it's the best move for a great career but it's not going to happen. I have other life concerns that are in play that dictate my inability to wait another year. I also understand that neither of my options are good ones to the people on these forums. Still, one has to be better than the other. I am satisfied taking the less shitty of two shitty options considering anything else I would do would be equally shitty.

[03152016]

90% of the class not being in the top 10% does not thereby mean that I have a 90% chance of dropping out. Basic LSAT logic my friend.

Started studying again, and was not satisfied with my progress and decided that I'd just go to Cardozo and try to be in the top 10% and if not drop out.

What am I missing here? I know your LSAT skills are much mightier than mine, so please explain.

You're not trying to imply that you have a better than 10% shot at top 10% because of how hard you'll work and how bad you want it, are you? Because that's what 100% of every incoming law school class thinks.

[star fox]

I don't have a genius plan. I think going in knowing I will drop out if I am not at the top of the class shows that I am pretty level-headed in my expectations for the job market. Just trying to gauge Fordham vs. Cardozo

So, as per your earlier posts, you're in a big rush to start your career as soon as possible and you want to appear successful to your friends, but you're cool with a 90% chance of being a grad school dropout 12 months from now?

Sounds savvy.

90% of the class not being in the top 10% does not thereby mean that I have a 90% chance of dropping out. Basic LSAT logic my friend.

Doing well on the LSAT isn't beneficial because it helps you get better grades in law school. It's better because it makes your law school bet more economically reasonable and either gives you a better shot at a job or the same shot with lower debt.

Duh. That's the point. If I couldn't do better on the LSAT, it is not necessarily indicative of my inability to do well in law school.

Retaking is just not an option for me anymore. I know it's the best move for a great career but it's not going to happen. I have other life concerns that are in play that dictate my inability to wait another year. I also understand that neither of my options are good ones to the people on these forums. Still, one has to be better than the other. I am satisfied taking the less shitty of two shitty options considering anything else I would do would be equally shitty.

Best of luck

[WokeUpInACar]

You've rationalized that those "life concerns" are more important than this decision which will impact the rest of your life. By any objective measure you're making the wrong choice. You're not special.

[03152016]

Retaking is just not an option for me anymore. I know it's the best move for a great career but it's not going to happen. I have other life concerns that are in play that dictate my inability to wait another year. I also understand that neither of my options are good ones to the people on these forums. Still, one has to be better than the other. I am satisfied taking the less shitty of two shitty options considering anything else I would do would be equally shitty.

[BigZuck]

Godspeed friend. Also:

[Unicorn1]

90% of the class not being in the top 10% does not thereby mean that I have a 90% chance of dropping out. Basic LSAT logic my friend.

Started studying again, and was not satisfied with my progress and decided that I'd just go to Cardozo and try to be in the top 10% and if not drop out.

What am I missing here? I know your LSAT skills are much mightier than mine, so please explain.

You're not trying to imply that you have a better than 10% shot at top 10% because of how hard you'll work and how bad you want it, are you? Because that's what 100% of every incoming law school class thinks.

No, this is not sports, I am not clutch.

Competition is easier as you go down the ladder. You're only as good as your fellow students dictate. I have a considerably higher chance of being top 10% at Cardozo than at Harvard.

[ManoftheHour]

OP, it took me 4 tries to get it right. You think I'd quit after the 3rd time with little improvement but I didn't and even though I didn't hit 170, I'm extremely happy with my sitting out for an additional year to retake. I sat out three years total.

My options compared to last cycle are as different as night and day.

I have no idea what you mean by social repercussions. My parents still love me, my friends still love me, I made a ton of new friends along the way, and my love life is not suffering one bit.

You say you want to be a lawyer so badly? Why don't you act like you want it more. I'd give you $1000 for one of your retakes if I could. Blood sweat and years for the LSAT. You CAN do it.
PM me if you want more details of my situation.

[Unicorn1]

You've rationalized that those "life concerns" are more important than this decision which will impact the rest of your life. By any objective measure you're making the wrong choice. You're not special.

Again, if I am not at the top of my class after a year, I will drop out, and will be in the exact same boat and it won't impact the rest of my life. If I am, I will probably be in pretty good shape.

[Unicorn1]

OP, it took me 4 tries to get it right. You think I'd quit after the 3rd time with little improvement but I didn't and even though I didn't hit 170, I'm extremely happy with my sitting out for an additional year to retake. I sat out three years.

My options compared to last cycle are as different as night and day.

I have no idea what you mean by social repercussions. My parents still love me, my friends still love me, I made a ton of new friends along the way, and my love life is not suffering one bit.

PM me if you want more details.

I am happy for you and glad you feel you made the right choice. I don't have the luxury of sitting out like you did. Such is life, unfortunately.

[ManoftheHour]

You've rationalized that those "life concerns" are more important than this decision which will impact the rest of your life. By any objective measure you're making the wrong choice. You're not special.

Again, if I am not at the top of my class after a year, I will drop out, and will be in the exact same boat and it won't impact the rest of my life. If I am, I will probably be in pretty good shape.

Retaking won't impact the rest of your life negatively either. It's a lot less expensive too.

[ManoftheHour]

I worked in a crappy coffee shop to support myself and lived with 2 other dudes and a girl in a single bedroom, not an apartment, for a year to study for the LSAT. That wasn't luxury at all. I had to explain to my parents why I wasn't taking my offers.

I think if you believed in yourself a bit you can pull this off. If you want to discuss how you prepped, perhaps I, as a 4 time taker, could give you some personal pointers.

If not, best of luck. Maybe you will pull it off.

To answer your question, I'd take Cardozo. But you should try negotiating with those other schools. WUSTL is usually pretty generous, although, they're more generous to people with higher LSATs.

[03152016]

I just don't see how anyone could fail to see the irony. You've declared that taking a year off to retake is absolutely unfeasible, yet taking a year off to go to a school you'll drop out of is somehow a sound idea.

I mean, dude.

[ManoftheHour]

I just don't see how anyone could fail to see the irony. You've declared that taking a year off to retake is absolutely unfeasible, yet taking a year off to go to a school you'll drop out of while accumulating debt is somehow a sound idea.

I mean, dude.

FTFY

[Unicorn1]

I just don't see how anyone could fail to see the irony. You've declared that taking a year off to retake is absolutely unfeasible, yet taking a year off to go to a school you'll drop out of is somehow a sound idea.

I mean, dude.

Yes, because once I drop out, I will find a job, and go from there. If I take a year off now to retake, there are no guarantees, and I still might have to drop out eventually. I just don't have the the time to waste given my life situation.

I never said it was a sound idea. Quite the opposite actually if you can read. I just know it is the best for me considering the circumstances.

[CoffeeIsLife]

I just don't see how anyone could fail to see the irony. You've declared that taking a year off to retake is absolutely unfeasible, yet taking a year off to go to a school you'll drop out of is somehow a sound idea.

I mean, dude.

Yes, because once I drop out, I will find a job, and go from there. If I take a year off now to retake, there are no guarantees, and I still might have to drop out eventually. I just don't have the the time to waste given my life situation.

I never said it was a sound idea. Quite the opposite actually if you can read. I just know it is the best for me considering the circumstances.

Please explain to me why it would be fine to drop out and find a job after one year of school as opposed to finding a job now, and retaking to go to a school that would give you better outcomes. Don't use the excuse that no one would hire you because you want to go to law school. It's a lie. Most people on here have jobs and we are planning on going to school. You don't have to tell them. If you feel so guilty about it, just work a job that isn't a big deal to leave (Coffee Shop, Food Industry, Temp, etc)

[WokeUpInACar]

I just don't see how anyone could fail to see the irony. You've declared that taking a year off to retake is absolutely unfeasible, yet taking a year off to go to a school you'll drop out of is somehow a sound idea.

I mean, dude.

Yes, because once I drop out, I will find a job, and go from there. If I take a year off now to retake, there are no guarantees, and I still might have to drop out eventually. I just don't have the the time to waste given my life situation.

I never said it was a sound idea. Quite the opposite actually if you can read. I just know it is the best for me considering the circumstances.

1) I don't believe you will actually drop out unless you do quite poorly. After putting in a year of hard work and ending up at top 1/3 or something, there are very few people mentally strong enough to just drop out. I know I wouldn't be. The same social pressure that makes you want to enter law school now will be even worse after a year of law school.

2) You need to get over "wasting" a year or being "too old." If you really busted your ass you could find some sort of paid work in a law firm as a legal assistant or paralegal or whatever. The firm also probably wouldn't care that you are leaving for law school after a year because that is what most people in those positions do. This would give you meaningful experience to talk about when you start interviewing for jobs and maybe connections as well. Not to mention it could help you make sure law is what you really want to do.

As for "too old," I'll be 30 before I'm out of law school and don't feel old at all. There are quite a few people that don't go to law school until their late 20s. Also, people of our generation are getting started in careers later than ever, and you can't compare yourself to boomers who graduated law school at 25.

3) I've heard just about every excuse for not retaking due to life circumstances, and almost none of them are compelling. Most everyone just doesn't want to deviate from "the plan" for social reasons and because getting a job is hard. Accepting a law school offer you have in hand is so easy and comfortable, while retaking and finding a job is quite uncomfortable. But being a grown up often involves these kinds of shitty choices and sometimes you've just gotta man up and make the correct long term decision even though it will require short term sacrifice.

[star fox]

If you're not going to take as much time and as much work as it takes to make law school a good investment (see ManoftheHour) then maybe you're just not committed enough to be going to law school in general.

It's a test with three sentence stimuli and passages about a trumpet player...

[d cooper]

Yes, because once I drop out, I will find a job, and go from there. If I take a year off now to retake, there are no guarantees, and I still might have to drop out eventually. I just don't have the the time to waste given my life situation.

K-JD is one hell of a drug.

[rickgrimes69]

I just don't see how anyone could fail to see the irony. You've declared that taking a year off to retake is absolutely unfeasible, yet taking a year off to go to a school you'll drop out of is somehow a sound idea.

I mean, dude.

Yes, because once I drop out, I will find a job, and go from there. If I take a year off now to retake, there are no guarantees, and I still might have to drop out eventually. I just don't have the the time to waste given my life situation.

I never said it was a sound idea. Quite the opposite actually if you can read. I just know it is the best for me considering the circumstances.