Plan to work in NYC!! Forum

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

Whats the "cost" of taking a year, or *gasp* two, off before law school?

Opportunity cost for one, I know what I want and have a solid means of getting it at a good price now. No reason to put off another year with said options.

I also dont get how an applicant with several T20 acceptances seems like such a bad place to be for the majority posting here.

None of your options give you even a 50% chance of getting what you want (biglaw). But they're just too good to pass up, huh?

[Rlabo]

Whats the "cost" of taking a year, or *gasp* two, off before law school?

Opportunity cost for one, I know what I want and have a solid means of getting it at a good price now. No reason to put off another year with said options.

I also dont get how an applicant with several T20 acceptances seems like such a bad place to be for the majority posting here.

Dude how many times must we tell you that it's not about absolute options. An AA 4.0/160 would have some pretty great options compared to most people, but they should still certainly retake.

There will always be "relatively" better options unless you've achieved HYS or ccn with full ride (and for those who did congrats thats truly an amazing accomplishment). My scores performed to par or slightly under for the cycle considering the Cornell and duke wl. Its also a lot easier to improve from a 160 to 165 than it is to go from a 165 to a 170 and even a 169 to a 172, that's why the jumps in percentage point are so huge. I understand the gravity of t14 but im not into the mentality of t14 or bust (and I have a t14!!). It's even likely that a t14 may not be the best option for me as it may put me against a much tougher class than I would be sitting next to at a lower school. On the other hand given the higher percentages going to biglaw there's more give here. I just cant see how I would regret paying 60k (read: no debt) for a jd that gives me a relatively good shot at biglaw and has a good name in the market I want to be in even if I dont get big law.

[Rlabo]

Whats the "cost" of taking a year, or *gasp* two, off before law school?

Opportunity cost for one, I know what I want and have a solid means of getting it at a good price now. No reason to put off another year with said options.

I also dont get how an applicant with several T20 acceptances seems like such a bad place to be for the majority posting here.

None of your options give you even a 50% chance of getting what you want (biglaw). But they're just too good to pass up, huh?

Cornell and Duke offer more than 50% so for args sakes lets assume I get in there. Based on this assumption would you take either of these at sticker over to COA of 60K at Fordham knowing your target market was new york and only new york. That would more depend on your comfort of risk than anything else.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

Whats the "cost" of taking a year, or *gasp* two, off before law school?

Opportunity cost for one, I know what I want and have a solid means of getting it at a good price now. No reason to put off another year with said options.

I also dont get how an applicant with several T20 acceptances seems like such a bad place to be for the majority posting here.

Dude how many times must we tell you that it's not about absolute options. An AA 4.0/160 would have some pretty great options compared to most people, but they should still certainly retake.

There will always be "relatively" better options unless you've achieved HYS or ccn with full ride (and for those who did congrats thats truly an amazing accomplishment). My scores performed to par or slightly under for the cycle considering the Cornell and duke wl. Its also a lot easier to improve from a 160 to 165 than it is to go from a 165 to a 170 and even a 169 to a 172, that's why the jumps in percentage point are so huge. I understand the gravity of t14 but im not into the mentality of t14 or bust (and I have a t14!!). It's even likely that a t14 may not be the best option for me as it may put me against a much tougher class than I would be sitting next to at a lower school. On the other hand given the higher percentages going to biglaw there's more give here. I just cant see how I would regret paying 60k (read: no debt) for a jd that gives me a relatively good shot at biglaw and has a good name in the market I want to be in even if I dont get big law.

lol that binary salary distribution. Do you think people who strike out at OCI at Fordham are just able to casually land a 90k gig like nbd or something?

You're almost certain to be stuck grinding at some 45k dump if you miss the boat on big firms. And you'll never escape it either. No in-house exit options, no lateraling into biglaw, none of that. There are 2 very distinct career paths that never cross again, all determined in fall of 2L.

[Rlabo]

Opportunity cost for one, I know what I want and have a solid means of getting it at a good price now. No reason to put off another year with said options.

I also dont get how an applicant with several T20 acceptances seems like such a bad place to be for the majority posting here.

Dude how many times must we tell you that it's not about absolute options. An AA 4.0/160 would have some pretty great options compared to most people, but they should still certainly retake.

There will always be "relatively" better options unless you've achieved HYS or ccn with full ride (and for those who did congrats thats truly an amazing accomplishment). My scores performed to par or slightly under for the cycle considering the Cornell and duke wl. Its also a lot easier to improve from a 160 to 165 than it is to go from a 165 to a 170 and even a 169 to a 172, that's why the jumps in percentage point are so huge. I understand the gravity of t14 but im not into the mentality of t14 or bust (and I have a t14!!). It's even likely that a t14 may not be the best option for me as it may put me against a much tougher class than I would be sitting next to at a lower school. On the other hand given the higher percentages going to biglaw there's more give here. I just cant see how I would regret paying 60k (read: no debt) for a jd that gives me a relatively good shot at biglaw and has a good name in the market I want to be in even if I dont get big law.

lol that binary salary distribution. Do you think people who strike out at OCI at Fordham are just able to casually land a 90k gig like nbd or something?

You're almost certain to be stuck grinding at some 45k dump if you miss the boat on big firms. And you'll never escape it either. No in-house exit options, no lateraling into biglaw, none of that. There are 2 very distinct career paths that never cross again, all determined in fall of 2L.

This is just overly bleak, even for TLS. I could make 60K out of college if I chose to do that so while tripping over 90K is definitely not what im saying, "almost certain" 45K is just a refusal to live in any form of reality and theres a very wide pay gap between 45-90. I'm more likely to fail out of law school than grab a position of 45K, ESPECIALLY after passing the Bar. Unless you just truly have absolutely 0 faith in your abilities to network and meet with people.

[IrwinM.Fletcher]

This is just overly bleak, even for TLS. I could make 60K out of college if I chose to do that so while tripping over 90K is definitely not what im saying, "almost certain" 45K is just a refusal to live in any form of reality and theres a very wide pay gap between 45-90. I'm more likely to fail out of law school than grab a position of 45K, ESPECIALLY after passing the Bar.

You have literally no idea what you're talking about.

[Rlabo]

This is just overly bleak, even for TLS. I could make 60K out of college if I chose to do that so while tripping over 90K is definitely not what im saying, "almost certain" 45K is just a refusal to live in any form of reality and theres a very wide pay gap between 45-90. I'm more likely to fail out of law school than grab a position of 45K, ESPECIALLY after passing the Bar.

You have literally no idea what you're talking about.

No I just already have a strong network to work within. Call it luck if you want or call me crazy if it suits you better but I KNOW i will be making more than 45K even if I strike out at OCI.

[Tekrul]

Edit: blackout drunk ramble. The gist of it was retake. It was touching, a shame I had to delete it.

[Rlabo]

Edit: blackout drunk ramble. The gist of it was retake. It was touching, a shame I had to delete it.

I was actually about to reply to that, but since you dont feel comfortable with that post I'll reply with a simple thank you, and try to drink some water.

[timbs4339]

You need to take some time off. Your college WE isn't going to count for shit going up against people with years of FT WE (i.e., somebody paid them a salary to work for a longer than you were in college).

If you can get a 60K job out of college, then do that for a few years.

This opportunity cost idea is the wrong way to look at it. Your first job determines a lot of your career trajectory in this business. I don't know why you wouldn't take the year to measurably increase your chances at a better starting position. Well, I know why. You're immature.

[patrickd139]

Haven't read the thread all the way through, but it's possible that you won't need to retake to get into better schools. Your LSN says you applied in late January. I'd apply in November this year (or whenever applications first come up), retaking the LSAT in June or September (October? I can't remember; it's been so long.). That gives you an opportunity to bump your score one more point, which puts you in T6 territory or lower T14 with significant scholarship.

Whatever you do, don't take any of your current options.

[stuckinthemiddle]

Again, TLS is going overboard on this one.

OP, your options aren't bad. In an absolute sense, they are pretty good compared to sticker. I don't think Fordham or Georgetown is a "stupid or retarded decision" like some posters are claiming, ESPECIALLY at the prices you're quoting.

I think what people are trying to tell you, however, is that you have time, opportunity, and potential to do better (especially given your lofty goals). A year off will only benefit you EVEN IF you decide not to retake the LSAT. You can get work experience (making you more competitive at OCI), gain maturity and perspective, apply early, and if the fates are in your favor, get a higher LSAT score. I can't think of any logical reason that waiting would hurt you. At worst, it would give you the exact same options you have now, with the benefit of WE, maturity, and an early application.

There may be a reason you underperformed your numbers (because you should have gotten MVPB down with a 169). Have you ever considered that law schools don't think you're ready just yet?

Congrats on your options OP but I would seriously think over the decision. This is coming from someone who took a year off and is considering taking another one (In at Cornell already, want NYC biglaw, but am hesitant to make the jump). Your options are not bad but they could be so much better. Long-term over short-term!

Good luck!

[hephaestus]

GULC is too expensive at that price. Your numbers say you should have done much better, so applying late really must have killed you. If you applied EA, you almost certainly would have gotten into Cornell with money. You should wait one year. If you want to do something law related, be a legal assistant/paralegal. Big firms have crazy turnover in this area so the jobs are pretty easy to get. I did that for a year and I really valued it. You get an inside view on different practice areas and make some connections. Also, it has really helped in interviews because it makes you seem more focused and like you at least vaguely know what you're talking about.

[Danger Zone]

OP, you are going to severely restrict your future earnings by going to school this fall. Since you don't want to listen to any of the posters here who are trying to help you, I voted for GULC. Fuck your own face.

[NYstate]

OP you are an idiot. You need better schools to get big law. At OCI no one is going to be impressed by your desire to rush through life and check off accomplishments. I think people would be concerned about hiring you because you are too young. You will need to be stellar to overcome this youth obstacle. Post in the big law associate thread and ask for opinions. I predict most everyone will say they will hesitate hiring you because you are so young. this hasnt been discussed much because it almost never comes up. Your schools aren't good enough to save you.

[NoodleyOne]

I know you said you won't retake and I just wasted like 2 calories typing this out, but!

I would have went for world domination if I had your GPA. World. Domination.

I'm a K-JD graduating in 3 years. My options are good enough IMO (yes, I Know they could be better) where I do not feel the need to put off law school for a year.

Lol.

You're fucked, dude.

[NYstate]

Hey, if you're only 20, your 25 years of IBR payments for your GULC debt will be gone before you're 50! Totally go to law school even though you won't be old enough to socialize during your first semester.

This just seems like age stigmatism to me which means absolutely nothing. At least post some constructive criticism that doesn't require the answer of some1 saying they have a fake ID.

You don't understand big law hiring. Do you at least understand how much competition there is for each spot and that getting median at these schools is not going to get you a job? Much more goes into hiring then simply getting a certain rank.

You need better schools.

[ph5354a]

Guys, we can be a little nicer here, but I agree with most of what has been said. OP, we have similar GPAs and my first LSAT was a 166 (last October). I had been PTing between 167-173, so it was a major disappointment. I was hoping to claw my way into Cornell off the WL (once upon a time, my dream school) and at first, never wanted to take the LSAT again because the process was so stressful and disappointing. I eventually decided to register for the December LSAT and took a few more PTs to refresh my skills, but didn't go crazy. Test day was much smoother for me, thanks in large part to not having those crazy test day nerves that you have on your first test, and, low and behold, the -12 curve helped me get my 174, higher than any PT I had ever taken. Even with a January application, I'm in at NYU and Columbia with money.

I know that's a riveting story. What I am trying to show is that you literally never know how a test day can go for you. You are absolutely right that you could score lower, but that does NOT matter. No school (save for Y or S) will hold that against you, and with a year of WE and an earlier application, perhaps an ED somewhere, you will be in at the low T14 regardless of your score. I think everyone here is focusing on the LSAT a little much, and if you don't want to re-take, that's fine, but we're saying that these aren't good options because you under performed for your numbers. Your options would be great for someone with a 3.3 and 162, but you have much better numbers and you should have much better options.

I would bet good money on the fact that your late app, K-JD status, and age caused your under performance. Get a job, stay in school, or take classes part time to boost your gpa and get a job during the day. Money doesn't seem to be a factor here, so do volunteer work if you want to. Do anything but take one of these options. Holding off on your plan for a year is not fun, but you say you want NYC big law, and statistically speaking, none of these options will get you there.

[timbs4339]

Holding off on your plan for a year is not fun, but you say you want NYC big law, and statistically speaking, none of these options will get you there.

And OP seems to be under the impression that there are NYC-biglaw-lite (midlaw) jobs floating around that he can nab. 60k is on the high end of what you can expect if you strike out at biglaw.

[ph5354a]

But, ugh, I didn't listen to anyone in my decision thread either, so if you're going to take one of these options (don't), I would go with Fordham (but don't) and do whatever you have to do (legal or illegal) to stay in the top 20% of your class (or, just don't go).

[Danger Zone]

But, ugh, I didn't listen to anyone in my decision thread either, so if you're going to take one of these options (don't), I would go with Fordham (but don't) and do whatever you have to do (legal or illegal) to stay in the top 20% of your class (or, just don't go).

80% chance that you won't be in the top 20%, OP. Stop being arrogant and just listen to the people who were in your position not too long ago.

[Bronx Bum]

Wow, please please please DO NOT go to Fordham for that price. JFC. HOW COULD YOU NOT RETAKE?

[Bronx Bum]

Holding off on your plan for a year is not fun, but you say you want NYC big law, and statistically speaking, none of these options will get you there.

And OP seems to be under the impression that there are NYC-biglaw-lite (midlaw) jobs floating around that he can nab. 60k is on the high end of what you can expect if you strike out at biglaw.

This is absolutely correct. I find myself in a better position than everyone I know who struck out at OCI. In fact, most people I know who struck out at oci don't have jobs. I also devoted 3 years to getting this position. $65k. $140k in debt. Don't go.

[hephaestus]

But, ugh, I didn't listen to anyone in my decision thread either, so if you're going to take one of these options (don't), I would go with Fordham (but don't) and do whatever you have to do (legal or illegal) to stay in the top 20% of your class (or, just don't go).

80% chance that you won't be in the top 20%, OP. Stop being arrogant and just listen to the people who were in your position not too long ago.

So much this. Dont let your ego destroy your life.

[Icculus]

As someone who graduated in 3 yrs and went K-JD, know that you will need higher grades than average to compensate for the lack of work experience. If you are on the bubble of that 33% or whatever, its likely not gonna happen.

Trust me. Wait a year. Its a blink of an eye that could change the trajectory of a 40 year career.

Yeah I was thinking this as well. I can't imagine firms are going to be jumping over each other to hire a 21 year old at OCI.

I have been working throughout a college and will be working this summer so I do have *some* work experience.

No you don't. Work experience is full time work upon graduation. You are a child and are making a childish decision. Good luck with that.