lolLRGhost wrote:Except it sort of is. Not totally 100%, but yeah man. Do you really think 40% of HLS in the boom times were striking out? If everyone at HLS wanted BigLaw, they would have gotten it. What causes a ~%15 drop, though? Again, people realizing that they probably can't get BigLaw decide to do PI/Gov. And some people who probably could get BigLaw decide that it's not a good career move like it was in 2007. Think of it this way: the option was always there but fewer people thought it was a good idea to take it.sinfiery wrote:Right. I don't think anyone here was saying only 50% ofthe HLS class could get biglaw if they wanted.
But if 62% chose biglaw in 07 and 48% in 2011, it probably wasn't by choice.
USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit Forum
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
k which part brorad lulz wrote:lolLRGhost wrote:Except it sort of is. Not totally 100%, but yeah man. Do you really think 40% of HLS in the boom times were striking out? If everyone at HLS wanted BigLaw, they would have gotten it. What causes a ~%15 drop, though? Again, people realizing that they probably can't get BigLaw decide to do PI/Gov. And some people who probably could get BigLaw decide that it's not a good career move like it was in 2007. Think of it this way: the option was always there but fewer people thought it was a good idea to take it.sinfiery wrote:Right. I don't think anyone here was saying only 50% ofthe HLS class could get biglaw if they wanted.
But if 62% chose biglaw in 07 and 48% in 2011, it probably wasn't by choice.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
I mean, I would agree that some of the drop probably has to do with post-Latham weariness of Biglaw. But he's so fucking bad at using words to prove his point.rad lulz wrote:lolLRGhost wrote:Except it sort of is. Not totally 100%, but yeah man. Do you really think 40% of HLS in the boom times were striking out? If everyone at HLS wanted BigLaw, they would have gotten it. What causes a ~%15 drop, though? Again, people realizing that they probably can't get BigLaw decide to do PI/Gov. And some people who probably could get BigLaw decide that it's not a good career move like it was in 2007. Think of it this way: the option was always there but fewer people thought it was a good idea to take it.sinfiery wrote:Right. I don't think anyone here was saying only 50% ofthe HLS class could get biglaw if they wanted.
But if 62% chose biglaw in 07 and 48% in 2011, it probably wasn't by choice.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
lol TCR hahahahaha. you guys are so funny!hume85 wrote:I mean, I would agree that some of the drop probably has to do with post-Latham weariness of Biglaw. But he's so fucking bad at using words to prove his point.rad lulz wrote:lolLRGhost wrote:Except it sort of is. Not totally 100%, but yeah man. Do you really think 40% of HLS in the boom times were striking out? If everyone at HLS wanted BigLaw, they would have gotten it. What causes a ~%15 drop, though? Again, people realizing that they probably can't get BigLaw decide to do PI/Gov. And some people who probably could get BigLaw decide that it's not a good career move like it was in 2007. Think of it this way: the option was always there but fewer people thought it was a good idea to take it.sinfiery wrote:Right. I don't think anyone here was saying only 50% ofthe HLS class could get biglaw if they wanted.
But if 62% chose biglaw in 07 and 48% in 2011, it probably wasn't by choice.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
You don't have to speak about me when you can actually address what I'm saying, bro. And I'm not just talking about getting laid off when I refer to career instability. It's probably a relevant factor that in 2007, the salary was much better.hume85 wrote:I mean, I would agree that some of the drop probably has to do with post-Latham weariness of Biglaw. But he's so fucking bad at using words to prove his point.rad lulz wrote:lolLRGhost wrote:Except it sort of is. Not totally 100%, but yeah man. Do you really think 40% of HLS in the boom times were striking out? If everyone at HLS wanted BigLaw, they would have gotten it. What causes a ~%15 drop, though? Again, people realizing that they probably can't get BigLaw decide to do PI/Gov. And some people who probably could get BigLaw decide that it's not a good career move like it was in 2007. Think of it this way: the option was always there but fewer people thought it was a good idea to take it.sinfiery wrote:Right. I don't think anyone here was saying only 50% ofthe HLS class could get biglaw if they wanted.
But if 62% chose biglaw in 07 and 48% in 2011, it probably wasn't by choice.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
I'm also not trying to 'prove a point'. You're just fucking stupid if you don't think kids at YHS would self select out of a shitty career that doesn't pay what it used to when the salary was the main motivation for most people going to LS in the first place. Is some of the self selection a combination of factors? Sure. But citing 64% getting BigLaw in 2007 to 48% in 2011 as if that 'proves' anything is dumb.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
I have you foe'd, so the only time I am going to address you is when someone else quotes you or you quote me. RE the bolded : AFAIK salaries in the major markets have been stagnant.LRGhost wrote:You don't have to speak about me when you can actually address what I'm saying, bro. And I'm not just talking about getting laid off when I refer to career instability. It's probably a relevant factor that in 2007, the salary was much better.hume85 wrote:I mean, I would agree that some of the drop probably has to do with post-Latham weariness of Biglaw. But he's so fucking bad at using words to prove his point.rad lulz wrote:lolLRGhost wrote:
Except it sort of is. Not totally 100%, but yeah man. Do you really think 40% of HLS in the boom times were striking out? If everyone at HLS wanted BigLaw, they would have gotten it. What causes a ~%15 drop, though? Again, people realizing that they probably can't get BigLaw decide to do PI/Gov. And some people who probably could get BigLaw decide that it's not a good career move like it was in 2007. Think of it this way: the option was always there but fewer people thought it was a good idea to take it.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
But CLS kids couldn't? Why is HYS not bound by the same statistical connections we make for the rest of the t14?
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
RE the bolded: lol.hume85 wrote: I have you foe'd, so the only time I am going to address you is when someone else quotes you or you quote me. RE the bolded : AFAIK salaries in the major markets have been stagnant.
Salaries have been stagnant but 160k was worth a lot more in 2007 and this says nothing of the massive bonuses even first years received. Also, lol at tuition then and loans.
Dude, the same reason CLS isn't bound by the same limitations as other schools. The absolute bottom of CLS probably has different results than their counterparts at HYS.sinfiery wrote:But CLS kids couldn't? Why is HYS not bound by the same statistical connections we make for the rest of the t14?
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
In the absence of evidence, HYS are given the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that will change in years to come.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
Alright. Id research how in a volatile job market characterized by large debt obligations and definite uncertainty one would clamor to the highest paying option. I would research how these apparent PI/Govt jobs took the 07 to 2011 shift as far as hiring. I'd look at school funded jobs between 07 and 2011. I'd try to find how the general starting salary of legal jobs compare from biglaw to that of non biglaw and how this effects debt repayment.
But I'm too lazy so nvm.
But I'm too lazy so nvm.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
The highest paying option is not necessarily the best option, dude. I don't know how many times people can say this here or write about it or whatever but BigLaw doesn't pay all that much anymore when you have large debt to service. More importantly, half of your class is gone by around their third year. Some of that is willful attrition and some of that is getting let go and some of that is a combination. But it's not a job that people tend to last a long time in. And then what comes after that? Exit options are scarce (contrary to what people say, just getting a good in-house job is not that easy) and you still have a lot of debt to pay but now you're taking a pay cut.sinfiery wrote:Alright. Id research how in a volatile job market characterized by large debt obligations and definite uncertainty one would clamor to the highest paying option. I would research how these apparent PI/Govt jobs took the 07 to 2011 shift as far as hiring. I'd look at school funded jobs between 07 and 2011. I'd try to find how the general starting salary of legal jobs compare from biglaw to that of non biglaw and how this effects debt repayment.
But I'm too lazy so nvm.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
big law seems like a much worse option than it did in 2008 when I started poking around these boards. I think that there terribleness of it has just been a lot more publicized since ITE. I'd also like to point out that ITE kind of created more situations that require PI attorneys, foreclosure prevention etc.. Maybe HY schools just created more fellowships to address these needs, they definitely have the endowment spending power to do this. It also seems to me that the general attitude amongst educated 20 somethings is to help people now and not to just make as much $ as possible, the mid 2000's were more like the 80s in this respect.
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- Skye
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
If USNWR decided anything over X% in School Funded Jobs would be counted as unemployed (or underemployed as schools like to say) it is likely that schools would discontinue spending seven figures on SFJ. What about grads who desperately depend on SFJ as their last bastion of hope? I believe the platitude that best fits is, be careful what you ask for.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
Yes, this is the problem with totally discounting school funded and JD advantage jobs. We should be suspicious of the overwhelming majority of them, however.Skye wrote:If USNWR decided anything over X% in School Funded Jobs would be counted as unemployed (or underemployed as schools like to say) it is likely that schools would discontinue spending seven figures on SFJ. What about grads who desperately depend on SFJ as their last bastion of hope? I believe the platitude that best fits is, be careful what you ask for.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
What are you basing the bolded on?LRGhost wrote:The highest paying option is not necessarily the best option, dude. I don't know how many times people can say this here or write about it or whatever but BigLaw doesn't pay all that much anymore when you have large debt to service. More importantly, half of your class is gone by around their third year. Some of that is willful attrition and some of that is getting let go and some of that is a combination. But it's not a job that people tend to last a long time in. And then what comes after that? Exit options are scarce (contrary to what people say, just getting a good in-house job is not that easy) and you still have a lot of debt to pay but now you're taking a pay cut.sinfiery wrote:Alright. Id research how in a volatile job market characterized by large debt obligations and definite uncertainty one would clamor to the highest paying option. I would research how these apparent PI/Govt jobs took the 07 to 2011 shift as far as hiring. I'd look at school funded jobs between 07 and 2011. I'd try to find how the general starting salary of legal jobs compare from biglaw to that of non biglaw and how this effects debt repayment.
But I'm too lazy so nvm.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
Campos' blog, other sources, etc. It's not something with hard-and-fast stats available.ChampagnePapi wrote: What are you basing the bolded on?
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
I'm a PI focused applicant who is in at H and S so I've been talking to alumns in my field. They have also shared anecdotal reports from their YLS-grad colleagues about Yale. (Doubt I'll get in there but the comparison is interesting).
For students like me -- intensely PI focused, preparing to live on LRAP -- these fellowships are considered a good thing and a major attraction. Basically they offer students the chance to design custom positions at organizations they're interested in. The attitude is not, "damn, I failed at getting a job so the school will have to hire me." It's more like "holy shit, you mean I can define my own job and put it on my résumé without having to win a Skadden fellowship?"
From what I've heard students at one of these three schools rarely even bother with the Skadden applications anymore because the school fellowships are generous and lead to the outcomes people want. Harvard's Public Interest Venture Fund just started offering not just fellowships for the grad's salary but also a limited number of additional seed-funding grants for people who want to start their own nonprofit orgs. (it's the first year of the program and they are now reviewing their first crop of applicants. So we'll have to see how the money is apportioned.)
Point being there is a big difference between a fellowship that pays entry-level PI salary for your (post-school) dream job vs. a make-work stats-fluffing admin position.
That being said, we need more transparency from all the schools and I appreciate your wariness. Just sharing what I've been hearing from students and grads.
For students like me -- intensely PI focused, preparing to live on LRAP -- these fellowships are considered a good thing and a major attraction. Basically they offer students the chance to design custom positions at organizations they're interested in. The attitude is not, "damn, I failed at getting a job so the school will have to hire me." It's more like "holy shit, you mean I can define my own job and put it on my résumé without having to win a Skadden fellowship?"
From what I've heard students at one of these three schools rarely even bother with the Skadden applications anymore because the school fellowships are generous and lead to the outcomes people want. Harvard's Public Interest Venture Fund just started offering not just fellowships for the grad's salary but also a limited number of additional seed-funding grants for people who want to start their own nonprofit orgs. (it's the first year of the program and they are now reviewing their first crop of applicants. So we'll have to see how the money is apportioned.)
Point being there is a big difference between a fellowship that pays entry-level PI salary for your (post-school) dream job vs. a make-work stats-fluffing admin position.
That being said, we need more transparency from all the schools and I appreciate your wariness. Just sharing what I've been hearing from students and grads.
Last edited by BalanceCare on Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
I read Campos' blog every day. You made a strong statement about the scarcity of exit options. If you have more than anecdotes I would like to see them.LRGhost wrote:Campos' blog, other sources, etc. It's not something with hard-and-fast stats available.ChampagnePapi wrote: What are you basing the bolded on?
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
Most recent post would be 'the Forgotten' but it's a recurring theme.ChampagnePapi wrote:I read Campos' blog every day. You made a strong statement about the scarcity of exit options. If you have more than anecdotes I would like to see them.LRGhost wrote:Campos' blog, other sources, etc. It's not something with hard-and-fast stats available.ChampagnePapi wrote: What are you basing the bolded on?
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
But this is evidence. They are getting paid by their school to do unpaid internships. That's TTT as fuck.banjo wrote:In the absence of evidence, HYS are given the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that will change in years to come.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
Shut the fuck up jesus christDesert Fox wrote:But this is evidence. They are getting paid by their school to do unpaid internships. That's TTT as fuck.banjo wrote:In the absence of evidence, HYS are given the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that will change in years to come.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
Would you stop being a huge cunt because I insulted your dream school?LRGhost wrote:Shut the fuck up jesus christDesert Fox wrote:But this is evidence. They are getting paid by their school to do unpaid internships. That's TTT as fuck.banjo wrote:In the absence of evidence, HYS are given the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that will change in years to come.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
Treating all school-funded positions interchangeably without bothering to look at outcomes is about as stupid as taking a TTT 96% employment claim at face value. Numbers are just a tool, not the whole picture.Desert Fox wrote:But this is evidence. They are getting paid by their school to do unpaid internships. That's TTT as fuck.banjo wrote:In the absence of evidence, HYS are given the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that will change in years to come.
That said, if you think HYS are TTT toilets, I suggest that you not attend.
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Re: USNEWS Employment Ranking Data = Bullshit
No dude, you're just a fucking idiot. All you've done is scream "LOL UNPAID INTERNSHIPS HOLY FUCKING SHIT WHAT A SHITHOLE" even though on the same page, someone offers really good insight into the program at one of the schools. You're just a fucking tool and a shitty poster and you're not nearly as funny, edgy, or original as you think you are.Desert Fox wrote:Would you stop being a huge cunt because I insulted your dream school?LRGhost wrote:Shut the fuck up jesus christDesert Fox wrote:But this is evidence. They are getting paid by their school to do unpaid internships. That's TTT as fuck.banjo wrote:In the absence of evidence, HYS are given the benefit of the doubt. Maybe that will change in years to come.
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