NYLS v. St. John's v. Seton Hall v. Drexel v. Pace Forum

[Mal Reynolds]

You do realize that for some people, it's either go to law school now, or never go? People get older, less inclined to go to school, get settled in employment, start families, etc. There's also plenty of people out there who can pay 16k a year for three years plus living expenses, out of pocket, and will graduate without any debt. Even if they don't find a legal job for a few years, that person now has a law degree that will be an asset once the economy improves.

You are what is wrong with this country. Your level of entitlement surpasses the shittiest of all the shitboomers.

[suralin]

That's cool, if you have some stupid undergrad degree like English.

If you're a biochemist, there will be opportunities out there.

Not everyone is a whiny little 21 year old kid fresh out of undergrad who majored in General Studies and sees law school as a shortcut to a shiny new biglaw gig since they're not smart enough for med school.

Personally, I am hanging my own shingle and doing contract work for other established lawyers and quickly building myself a very strong reputation in my area. Law is a profession and should be treated as such. Employment is never the goal... practicing law is the goal. A lawyer should aspire to self-employment, or partnership, not merely being an associate in a firm.

You're an idiot. HTH.

[tarp]

LOL, I have to laugh at these posts. I have zero debt, a J.D. cum laude from Drexel and have the financial freedom to hang up my own shingle and be my own boss. I can spend time with my family when I so desire, and I don't answer to anybody. It's great having no loans to pay back!

I wouldn't have taken Harvard or Yale at sticker, since I have no desire to work for the man.

[stillwater]

LOL, I have to laugh at these posts. I have zero debt, a J.D. cum laude from Drexel and have the financial freedom to hang up my own shingle and be my own boss. I can spend time with my family when I so desire, and I don't answer to anybody. It's great having no loans to pay back!

I wouldn't have taken Harvard or Yale at sticker, since I have no desire to work for the man.

are you sure you aren't writing this from the public computer at the local mental hospital?

[cinephile]

LOL, I have to laugh at these posts. I have zero debt, a J.D. cum laude from Drexel and have the financial freedom to hang up my own shingle and be my own boss. I can spend time with my family when I so desire, and I don't answer to anybody. It's great having no loans to pay back!

I wouldn't have taken Harvard or Yale at sticker, since I have no desire to work for the man.

But you still have to work for your clients. You're not really working for yourself. You're never going to be free so long as you have to work for a living.

[somewhatwayward]

Newsflash: EVERYONE in the COUNTRY is terrified about being unable to find a job. The job market and the economy stinks in general.

You are thinking short-term if you think a law degree from anything but a top 14 school is worthless in the long run. Once the economy improves, the job market will improve as well.

At top law schools, most people are not terrified of not being able to find a job. They are motivated and understand that if they fall in the bottom of the class, they are in trouble, but they are generally not terrified as it sounds like people at Drexel are (and they should be! 40% post-grad employment is pretty terrible....you have better odds putting 200K on red at a casino).

[tarp]

Newsflash: EVERYONE in the COUNTRY is terrified about being unable to find a job. The job market and the economy stinks in general.

You are thinking short-term if you think a law degree from anything but a top 14 school is worthless in the long run. Once the economy improves, the job market will improve as well.

At top law schools, most people are not terrified of not being able to find a job. They are motivated and understand that if they fall in the bottom of the class, they are in trouble, but they are generally not terrified as it sounds like people at Drexel are (and they should be! 40% post-grad employment is pretty terrible....you have better odds putting 200K on red at a casino).

Absolutely - I agree. If someone has the option of attending a top law school, then that would be the best insurance against joblessness. The only situation where I would advocate passing up on UPENN for something like Rutgers-Camden or Drexel would be if you have a very specific goal in mind that does not require an elite degree (like opening your own law office, or you already have a job lined up), and UPENN would cost way more.

LOL, I have to laugh at these posts. I have zero debt, a J.D. cum laude from Drexel and have the financial freedom to hang up my own shingle and be my own boss. I can spend time with my family when I so desire, and I don't answer to anybody. It's great having no loans to pay back!

I wouldn't have taken Harvard or Yale at sticker, since I have no desire to work for the man.

But you still have to work for your clients. You're not really working for yourself. You're never going to be free so long as you have to work for a living.

That's absolutely correct too. I'd rather work for clients, whom I can pick and choose and whom I can individually "fire" if they become untenable, than for a boss who can control the minutia of my daily life. But you are correct that, in the end, everyone answers to others unless they are independently wealthy.

[NYstate]

LOL, I have to laugh at these posts. I have zero debt, a J.D. cum laude from Drexel and have the financial freedom to hang up my own shingle and be my own boss. I can spend time with my family when I so desire, and I don't answer to anybody. It's great having no loans to pay back!

I wouldn't have taken Harvard or Yale at sticker, since I have no desire to work for the man.

That is good because Harvard or Yale wouldn't have admitted you. Good thing to have realistic expectations. Most people need a job so they can live and pay bills. It is great you have plenty of money so you don't have to worry about that.

But as you raised the question: how much did you make last year after expenses? How much did it cost to set up your office? What are your monthly expenses for your office? What about living expenses?
Where are you getting referrals from for work ( I know nothing about contract work for other lawyers.). Are you in IP or something else? What hours are you working? Any other information about what you are doing would be helpful.

[tarp]

I'm still waiting to get admitted, and working doing what I did before law school right now, which pays the bills. Also doing legal research and writing on a contract basis. I set up my office for under $1000 in furniture and equipment, and I pay $300 a month for rent (single office). Will be practicing immigration law which is in high demand in this area. I am sure the first 6 months to a year will be tough getting established but I am spending all my time networking right now, and will be doing advertising and community outreach. Hanging a shingle is not for everyone but if you have some business sense and are good at selling yourself, you can make it work. There's a lot of solo and small firm guys out there and they aren't starving. There's definitely room for a few more good lawyers out there. The key is you have to love this line of work and you have to put your heart and soul into it. You can't just be in it for the money, or you'll probably crash and burn.

[Mal Reynolds]

So you have you gone to law school yet?

[romothesavior]

Well given that people still go to NYLS and Pace, I imagine a lot of people aren't doing it for the money. More like just making their boomer mothers proud.

[cinephile]

[quote="tarp"]But you are correct that, in the end, everyone answers to others unless they are independently wealthy.[/quote]

Independent wealth is the only road to true happiness.

Or maybe marrying for money.

Satisfaction cannot be found through work.

[stillwater]

this thread is a joke

[uvabro]

[quote="tarp"]But you are correct that, in the end, everyone answers to others unless they are independently wealthy.

Independent wealth is the only road to true happiness.

Or maybe marrying for money.

Satisfaction cannot be found through work.[/quote]
Are you on meds? If not, can you be? You're like a manic depressive, and change subjects randomly. Who asked about true happiness?

[tarp]

Isn't that the overarching goal? People don't go to law school because it sounds like fun. They go because they think it's part of a path that will lead them to increased happiness in life. Most people's actions are taken in furtherance of the goal of achieving happiness.

[dirtrida2]

[uvabro]

Isn't that the overarching goal? People don't go to law school because it sounds like fun. They go because they think it's part of a path that will lead them to increased happiness in life. Most people's actions are taken in furtherance of the goal of achieving happiness.

i guess that makes sense. it just seemed odd to bring it out of no where.

[TatteredDignity]

Somehow this was overlooked in the chaos.

numbers are just numbers

How did no one call troll when a supposed scientist said this?

[timbs4339]

LOL, I have to laugh at these posts. I have zero debt, a J.D. cum laude from Drexel and have the financial freedom to hang up my own shingle and be my own boss. I can spend time with my family when I so desire, and I don't answer to anybody. It's great having no loans to pay back!

I wouldn't have taken Harvard or Yale at sticker, since I have no desire to work for the man.

But you still have to work for your clients. You're not really working for yourself. You're never going to be free so long as you have to work for a living.

He doesn't have clients. He does contract research and writing. I did the same thing during and after law school while waiting for my real job to start, the only difference is I didn't waste money on an office.

[somewhatwayward]

I'm still waiting to get admitted, and working doing what I did before law school right now, which pays the bills. Also doing legal research and writing on a contract basis. I set up my office for under $1000 in furniture and equipment, and I pay $300 a month for rent (single office). Will be practicing immigration law which is in high demand in this area. I am sure the first 6 months to a year will be tough getting established but I am spending all my time networking right now, and will be doing advertising and community outreach. Hanging a shingle is not for everyone but if you have some business sense and are good at selling yourself, you can make it work. There's a lot of solo and small firm guys out there and they aren't starving. There's definitely room for a few more good lawyers out there. The key is you have to love this line of work and you have to put your heart and soul into it. You can't just be in it for the money, or you'll probably crash and burn.

On the last page, you said you are "quickly building myself a very strong reputation in my area"....you mean you are quickly building a strong reputation in legal research/writing contract work?

[stillwater]

shitlaw LOOMS

[rickgrimes69]

I'm still waiting to get admitted, and working doing what I did before law school right now, which pays the bills. Also doing legal research and writing on a contract basis. I set up my office for under $1000 in furniture and equipment, and I pay $300 a month for rent (single office). Will be practicing immigration law which is in high demand in this area. I am sure the first 6 months to a year will be tough getting established but I am spending all my time networking right now, and will be doing advertising and community outreach. Hanging a shingle is not for everyone but if you have some business sense and are good at selling yourself, you can make it work.

Law school teaches you nothing about being a practicing lawyer. Hanging a shingle with no experience, connections, or start up capital is a recipe for disaster for nearly everyone. Come back in a year when you're still in business and maybe you can talk.

There's a lot of solo and small firm guys out there and they aren't starving. There's definitely room for a few more good lawyers out there.

The fact that you believe this in the face of such overwhelming evidence to the contrary just demonstrates how woefully uninformed you are. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's very obvious you have no idea what you're talking about.

[romothesavior]

Personally, I am hanging my own shingle and doing contract work for other established lawyers and quickly building myself a very strong reputation in my area. Law is a profession and should be treated as such. Employment is never the goal... practicing law is the goal. A lawyer should aspire to self-employment, or partnership, not merely being an associate in a firm.

At first when you said this, I thought you were actually practicing and having success, and you were entitled to at least some respect despite your atrociously awful advice. But you're not even in law school yet? Holy LOLballs

[Icculus]

Personally, I am hanging my own shingle and doing contract work for other established lawyers and quickly building myself a very strong reputation in my area. Law is a profession and should be treated as such. Employment is never the goal... practicing law is the goal. A lawyer should aspire to self-employment, or partnership, not merely being an associate in a firm.

At first when you said this, I thought you were actually practicing and having success, and you were entitled to at least some respect despite your atrociously awful advice. But you're not even in law school yet? Holy LOLballs

I think he graduated and is waiting for admission to the bar.

[timbs4339]

I remember an areyouinsane story where he described how it was a cliche for people on the contract doc review circuit to have their own solo practices. They all used the same Staples self-print business cards.