Minnesota VS GW Forum

[bk1]

Look, OP should not take either of these choices. Getting a job in Minn will be tough and the degree is not marketable outside of Minnesota. Furthermore, those people (of which there are "really not many" - this is patently false...) at T14s/strong non-T14 nationals will be able to reach back. I'm currently working in a smaller market where I have those ties - most here are hometowners and very few went to the local school.

GW is a poor choice too because it's so expensive, but urging UMN is not the right course. Someone suggested getting WE then EDing NU; I think that this is the correct choice.

You're arguing semantics i/r/t "not many." I'd assume that it's true at the upper level firms where the hometown heroes who went to T14s will be taking a lot of the spots, but definitely not nearly true when you get to mid/small size firms (where the majority of Minnesota graduates end up finding work).

How is Minnesota not a decent choice in this situation? I mean I'd hazard that in a lot of cases, taking a strong regional school like Minnesota at $100,000 debt is a far less risky decision than a T14 like NU at $200,000 debt.

[YourCaptain]

Re: your example, UMN is a 100k gamble with a 10% chance and NU is a 200k gamble with a 50% chance. You're telling me you'd prefer the cheaper bet here? Check your math.

You think that a small/mid firm will be more amenable to those with fewer connections to the state? Look, I work in one of those states that's primarily a small/mid firm market, and hometown grads dominate those firms. Why? Because they don't need to worry about them being a flight risk; if you like your small market so much so as to come back you're not a stranger.

If this were Cornell/NU/Duke there wouldn't be a question. It's GW though; GW doesn't place well enough to justify 200k and UMN doesn't justify 100k

[Flips88]

I'm utterly confused as to how GW at STICKER is winning. That's $215,000 + interest accrued for not significantly better job prospects.

[justhockey31]

I'm utterly confused as to how GW at STICKER is winning. That's $215,000 + interest accrued for not significantly better job prospects.

Tied now, but you would think reading this thread it would be GW: 5 UMN: 45

[loblaw]

I don't understand how there an argument for GW here.

[lalala21]

hmmm yeah. I think I might switch my vote.

[justhockey31]

Haha I don't think that's allowed

[dusk2k2]

Alright, I'm probably going to end up outing myself here, but I feel I should probably help you out some. I was faced with this same situation last year and ended up choosing Minnesota over GW (I'm currently a rising 2L).

Do I regret it? I don't know yet. I didn't particularly enjoy my first year for a combination of reasons (pressure, lack of friends, etc). Haven't gone through OCI yet, so can't tell you how that will shape up, although given my estimated class rank (probably top 10%), I'm not at all comfortable with my prospects of landing biglaw through OCI.

PM me and I can give you some more info.

[justhockey31]

Just PM'ed you

[lalala21]

Haha I don't think that's allowed

^^ What? So sad.

[bk1]

Re: your example, UMN is a 100k gamble with a 10% chance and NU is a 200k gamble with a 50% chance. You're telling me you'd prefer the cheaper bet here? Check your math.

You think that a small/mid firm will be more amenable to those with fewer connections to the state? Look, I work in one of those states that's primarily a small/mid firm market, and hometown grads dominate those firms. Why? Because they don't need to worry about them being a flight risk; if you like your small market so much so as to come back you're not a stranger.

If this were Cornell/NU/Duke there wouldn't be a question. It's GW though; GW doesn't place well enough to justify 200k and UMN doesn't justify 100k

By saying "UMN = 10% chance" I assume you are basically saying that somebody without ties to MN who goes to Minnesota for law school won't be able to find a job at all in Minnesota (or at least will severely struggle).

I understand the logic and underpinnings of this and don't really have any specific evidence to counter it except that I just find it hard to believe. You are basically saying that any transplant who goes to a secondary market law school without ties is going to basically be shut out of that market. I'm just struggling to believe that. I mean from what others in a very secondary market have told me is that you can counter this bias against transplants by summering in the secondary market and doing other things to prove that you want to stay. If OP were to spend 1L summer in MN I just don't see it being as bad as you claim.

[justhockey31]

I find it hard to believe as well but considering about 60% of UMN's students are from Minnesota and many of them from Minneapolis, maybe firms are more willing to pass an out of stater for an in-stater with similar or even slightly worse grades?


ps - the voting is so close!

[bk1]

ps - the voting is so close!

I think it's pretty telling that the people voting for GW aren't willing to back up their votes with reasoning.

[justhockey31]

Possibly, I would like to hear their reasons!

[bk1]

Possibly, I would like to hear their reasons!

Me too. If I had to guess, the reason they don't post is because they will get responses from 10 other people saying that their reasoning is faulty. It's hard to go against the majority.

I think that the reason they vote for GW at sticker is because they themselves would be willing to take GW at sticker. In fact a lot of people take GW at sticker even if it's not a very smart financial decision (heck a lot of people go to TTT/TTTT schools as well). Just because a lot of people do it or agree with it doesn't make it smart.

[YourCaptain]

to be fair, i haven't voted, mainly because i wouldn't take either

[justhockey31]

to be fair, i haven't voted, mainly because i wouldn't take either

useful

[thedive]

What if it doesn't work out as well as you hope and you finish around median or so? All that debt from GW at sticker is going to be hard as hell to pay off, if not soul crushing.

[El_Gallo]

Possibly, I would like to hear their reasons!

Me too. If I had to guess, the reason they don't post is because they will get responses from 10 other people saying that their reasoning is faulty. It's hard to go against the majority.

I swear that TLSers often vote the choice that will keep the poll as close as possible. Real helpful guys.

[TurkeyDay]

What'd you decide?!

[loblaw]

G-dubs?! I hate it when people start polls and then go off and make their own decisions!

Good luck, DC is awesome.

[justhockey31]

Haha yeah I guess I use TLS as a guide and not the "end all be alll" for my decision...if it helps it was a really tough choice and the people on TLS made some very valid points

[fingersxd]

Well, congrats anyway. You went where you felt most comfortable. End of story.