Wash U in St. Louis VERSUS University of Illinois Urbana/Cha Forum

[stratocophic]

It would be interesting if WashU could provide where those 19% went to work in Chicago. Just because people are working in Chicago, doesn't mean they are at big firms in Chicago. See WUSTL's employment stats according to the NLJ article. Over 80% of students at WUSTL don't get biglaw. Not a very good bet if that is what you want to do.

This not at all accurate - ITE (though the 'not a good bet' thing is more true in general). Also, people coming off of clerkships will likely make the 'over 80%' statement untrue by the time they hit firms, even for a very bad year. There's no point at looking at one year of data. Trends are more reliable, and trends suggest that the figure is closer to 25%. You wouldn't take it as truth that Harvard's placement in the latest NLJ figures was normal, would you? Also note that UIUC did even worse.

[romothesavior]

It would be interesting if WashU could provide where those 19% went to work in Chicago. Just because people are working in Chicago, doesn't mean they are at big firms in Chicago. See WUSTL's employment stats according to the NLJ article. Over 80% of students at WUSTL don't get biglaw. Not a very good bet if that is what you want to do.

This not at all accurate - ITE (though the 'not a good bet' thing is more true in general). Also, people coming off of clerkships will likely make the 'over 80%' statement untrue by the time they hit firms, even for a very bad year. There's no point at looking at one year of data. Trends are more reliable, and trends suggest that the figure is closer to 25%. You wouldn't take it as truth that Harvard's placement in the latest NLJ figures was normal, would you? Also note that UIUC did even worse.

I was going to say this, but I figured quibbling over 5% wasn't worth it. You're definitely right though. NLJ + clerks who will get NLJ is probably close to 25%, even ITE. More like 1/3 in a good year.

In any case, even if Slevin is 100% accurate, everything he just said applies equally to UIUC. So I'm not sure what his point is, other than to just continually rip WUSTL.

[TheSteelKid]

My thing is that I dont wanna work in Missouri. I really liked chicago and would like to work there, or dc, nyc or west coast. It seems really tough to get hooked up out west unless ure t14 or go to school there. Wash u seems to have less than stellar major market and west coast placement numbers. Why not just bank on chicago, a city id like to work and live in, and hence go to u ilinois. Any thoughts on this?

[Hannibal]

My thing is that I dont wanna work in Missouri. I really liked chicago and would like to work there, or dc, nyc or west coast. It seems really tough to get hooked up out west unless ure t14 or go to school there. Wash u seems to have less than stellar major market and west coast placement numbers. Why not just bank on chicago, a city id like to work and live in, and hence go to u ilinois. Any thoughts on this?

As we said before, the comparison of power in Chicago between Illinois and Wash U isn't really clear. If you want west coast, NYC, or DC, Wash U is better. That said, if you have the kind of grades to get you a job out in those places without ties and a lot of legwork, you can probably get a job in Chicago as well.

[romothesavior]

My thing is that I dont wanna work in Missouri. I really liked chicago and would like to work there, or dc, nyc or west coast. It seems really tough to get hooked up out west unless ure t14 or go to school there. Wash u seems to have less than stellar major market and west coast placement numbers. Why not just bank on chicago, a city id like to work and live in, and hence go to u ilinois. Any thoughts on this?

I really think you are over-thinking this. The two schools are very similar. UIUC may be marginally better in Chicago. WUSTL may be marginally better elsewhere. But the two are as close to peers as two schools could possibly get. Their placement power (into NLJ, into Chicago, and nationally) is very, very similar.

[TheSteelKid]

My thing is that I dont wanna work in Missouri. I really liked chicago and would like to work there, or dc, nyc or west coast. It seems really tough to get hooked up out west unless ure t14 or go to school there. Wash u seems to have less than stellar major market and west coast placement numbers. Why not just bank on chicago, a city id like to work and live in, and hence go to u ilinois. Any thoughts on this?

I really think you are over-thinking this. The two schools are very similar. UIUC may be marginally better in Chicago. WUSTL may be marginally better elsewhere. But the two are as close to peers as two schools could possibly get. Their placement power (into NLJ, into Chicago, and nationally) is very, very similar.

You're probably right here. The thing is though, if UIUC places ~60% in Illinois, I wonder what percent they put in Chicago? I'm afraid to think where else in the state people may be working...

[romothesavior]

You're probably right here. The thing is though, if UIUC places ~60% in Illinois, I wonder what percent they put in Chicago? I'm afraid to think where else in the state people may be working...

Smallish cities like Peoria, Bloomington-Normal, Rockford, Joliet, Champaign, Springfield, Champaign, and the Quad Cities. UIUC and SIU dominate the non-Chicagoland areas of Illinois.

[Slevin Kelevra 2011]

My thing is that I dont wanna work in Missouri. I really liked chicago and would like to work there, or dc, nyc or west coast.

So why are you debating a school located in Missouri? There are schools in Chicago, DC, NYC or California that would better suit your needs.

[Hannibal]

My thing is that I dont wanna work in Missouri. I really liked chicago and would like to work there, or dc, nyc or west coast.

So why are you debating a school located in Missouri? There are schools in Chicago, DC, NYC or California that would better suit your needs.

Should one go to Yale only if they want to practice in Connecticut? It's an extreme example, but come on. If he got into Gtown/GW/Fordham/UCLA/USC/NU he would have said so.

[TheSteelKid]

Yup, I didnt get into any of those places. Anyways, I've had it confirmed that approximately 60% of illinois grads over the past few years end up in chicago. This is definitely a strong number.

[TheSteelKid]

My thing is that I dont wanna work in Missouri. I really liked chicago and would like to work there, or dc, nyc or west coast.

So why are you debating a school located in Missouri? There are schools in Chicago, DC, NYC or California that would better suit your needs.

Should one go to Yale only if they want to practice in Connecticut? It's an extreme example, but come on. If he got into Gtown/GW/Fordham/UCLA/USC/NU he would have said so.

Ya scratch that actually, I got into GW but with no Scholarship money and felt it definitely wasn't worth it. Gtown and USC dinged me and then Fordham, UCLA and NU wait-listed me. I'm also wait-listed at UVA, Michigan , Vandy and BU....I'd consider maybe UVA/Michigan/NU/UCLA at sticker, not the others.

[TheSteelKid]

Can I hear some University of Illinois love from anyone on TLS? I cant get any current/future Illinois students on this thread!

[bball25]

I would like to practice in the midwest and received a nice amount of $$$ from Illinois. I didn't get in at U of M or U of Chicago and then was facing the same decision you are (UIUC vs WUSTL). I visited a couple schools and liked UIUC. My dad is pretty well connected in the mid sized market I'm from and I've talked to several attorneys from mid sized law firms who all spoke highly of UIUC. I went to the admitted students day and felt like if worked hard I would have some good opportunities from Illinois. While it is not a T14 I have been impressed with Illinois perceived effort to get their students jobs. I also love the Chicago area and I am hoping to gain employment there after graduation. It has been said eariler but I agree that these two schools are peers with maybe a slight adv in Chicago for UIUC and vice versa for WUSTL in St. Louis. With that being said I don't want to live in STL. Another subconscious reason for choosing Illinois may have been two judges I worked for last summer (one being a family friend) both went to UIUC and recommended it highly to me.

[FuManChusco]

Its not about WUSTL. Just discussing St. Louis and Missouri. Of those 6 NLJ250 firms, how many are AMLaw 100 or V100? Just saying. It's not a big legal market. If you take the total number of summer associates at AMLaw 100 or V100 firms in St. Louis, I doubt you get over 20 total in the entire city, if that.

Actually, I'll do it. Firms with over 500 attorneys (there are only three with St. L offices):

HUSCH BLACKWELL LLP - 8 summer associates last year
Polsinelli Shughart PC - 2 summer associates last year
BRYAN CAVE LLP - 6 summer associates last year

So, St. Louis has a total of around (given fluctations) 15-20 total summer associate positions at top law firms. That just isn't much of a legal market.

That's right, there aren't V10 firms! For that matter V1 firms! Any non-V1 firm job is TTT.

screw v1. that's the suckers route. I'm SCOTUS or bust.

eta: I can't believe I just read 4 pages of UIUC vs. WUSTL. as everyone said, they are virtually the same. visit and decide.

[allamerican73]

I know I'm a little late to the discussion but...going to law school in a smaller college town has its definite advantages. Besides a lower COL, you develop close relationships with other students (due to proximity) and have an incredible access to faculty members that might not otherwise be available in a larger city. Plus, access to thousands of hot undergrads