Cardozo vs Brooklyn vs Rutgers-Newark vs Hofstra(with 20K)? Forum

[lawfreak]

I don't understand your aversion to retaking. If you got a 4.0 in a hard science you have the study skills to get, at the absolute least, a 160+.

However, if these are your options then go to Rutgers.

If you would have bothered to read my previous posts, you would have seen that I already took the lsat to the max, and therefore retaking is not a viable solution. Thanks anyways for trying.

[OGR3]

I don't understand your aversion to retaking. If you got a 4.0 in a hard science you have the study skills to get, at the absolute least, a 160+.

However, if these are your options then go to Rutgers.

If you would have bothered to read my previous posts, you would have seen that I already took the lsat to the max, and therefore retaking is not a viable solution. Thanks anyways for trying.

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you would have seen that you can get a school to sponsor you taking it again OR wait a while and retake after the three year limit has passed. You seem unbelievably intent on ruining your financial future.

[lawfreak]

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you would have seen that you can get a school to sponsor you taking it again OR wait a while and retake after the three year limit has passed. You seem unbelievably intent on ruining your financial future.

Really intent on ruining my financial future? Why don't you check out this link http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf, look at which school is good enough to place 30 out of the top 50 schools in the country in 2009 in landing the best jobs out there (20% were hired in one of the worst economies in the century, can't wait to see how much better it will be in coming years) and then tell me again that going to Cardozo is absolutely the worst financial decision a person can make.

The truth is, that the people who made this chart would tell me to go to Cardozo. That definitely helps in my decision process.

[FiveSermon]

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you would have seen that you can get a school to sponsor you taking it again OR wait a while and retake after the three year limit has passed. You seem unbelievably intent on ruining your financial future.

Really intent on ruining my financial future? Why don't you check out this link http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf, look at which school is good enough to place 30 in the top 50 schools in the country in 2009 in landing the best jobs out there (20% were hired in one of the worst economies in the century, can't wait to see how much better it will be in coming years) and then tell me again that going to Cardozo is absolutely the worst financial decision a person can make.

Cardozo at sticker is among the absolutely worst financial decisions a person can make.

[chicago520]

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you would have seen that you can get a school to sponsor you taking it again OR wait a while and retake after the three year limit has passed. You seem unbelievably intent on ruining your financial future.

Really intent on ruining my financial future? Why don't you check out this link http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf, look at which school is good enough to place 30 in the top 50 schools in the country in 2009 in landing the best jobs out there (20% were hired in one of the worst economies in the century, can't wait to see how much better it will be in coming years) and then tell me again that going to Cardozo is absolutely the worst financial decision a person can make.

Cardozo --->>> IBR your loans --->>> then lol.

[lawfreak]

Apparently those of you who have replied, didn't bother to take a minute out of your time to check out the link I posted. If you had done that, you wouldn't be posting those ridiculous comments you just made.

[Grizz]

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you would have seen that you can get a school to sponsor you taking it again OR wait a while and retake after the three year limit has passed. You seem unbelievably intent on ruining your financial future.

Really intent on ruining my financial future? Why don't you check out this link http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf, look at which school is good enough to place 30 out of the top 50 schools in the country in 2009 in landing the best jobs out there (20% were hired in one of the worst economies in the century, can't wait to see how much better it will be in coming years) and then tell me again that going to Cardozo is absolutely the worst financial decision a person can make.

The truth is, that the people who made this chart would tell me to go to Cardozo. That definitely helps in my decision process.

They got hired during OCI 2007, one of the best legal economies ever. The numbers will be lower, much lower, for c/o 2010, aka OCI 2008.

[Grizz]

Cardozo --->>> IBR your loans 25 yr. indentured servitude --->>> then lol?

[rman1201]

Those stats are from the class of 2009, which had their OCIs and SAs pre-recession, and most schools report initial estimates of employment to be down a little for the class of 2010, so you can expect a little dip in the stats you provided.

And think about it this way, even if 20% do land biglaw (or close to it), that means you have an 80% chance of not landing big law, in which case you'll still have $200k worth of loans to pay off.

Most people here are just trying to help, and ultimately the decision is yours to make. You seem pretty set on making this happen, and I wish you the best of luck, it'd be great if things do work out. We're just trying to be as objective/realistic as possible to help you make a level headed decision.

Things are oversensationalized a tad here, I'll give you that. As long as you don't default the loans are very manageable and the government is willing to work with you in getting them taken care of, and in your instance maybe it won't even be that big of a deal with all that debt hanging over your head since you'll be in NYC, and I doubt you plan on buying a house or car anytime soon.

If I were you I'd just do some soul searching to ensure law is 100% what you want to do. Do research, contact current attorneys, get a job as an assistant if possible - and if it is then go for it and find a way to make it happen, just try to be responsible about it.

[Grizz]

Apparently those of you who have replied, didn't bother to take a minute out of your time to check out the link I posted. If you had done that, you wouldn't be posting those ridiculous comments you just made.

Read my post 2 posts up.

Even if it were still 20% biglaw, going $200,000 in for a 20%, maybe 30% (throw in some clerkships, PI, etc.) shot at jobs that can pay off the debt effectively seems pretty silly.

edit: rman beat me too it

[OGR3]

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you would have seen that you can get a school to sponsor you taking it again OR wait a while and retake after the three year limit has passed. You seem unbelievably intent on ruining your financial future.

Really intent on ruining my financial future? Why don't you check out this link http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf, look at which school is good enough to place 30 in the top 50 schools in the country in 2009 in landing the best jobs out there (20% were hired in one of the worst economies in the century, can't wait to see how much better it will be in coming years) and then tell me again that going to Cardozo is absolutely the worst financial decision a person can make.

Cardozo at sticker is among the absolutely worst financial decisions a person can make.

Agreed. Cardozo at sticker is going to be $200K+. Loan payments on that are going to almost $2,400 a month under the standard plan, $1,300 a month under a 30 year plan. IBR is certainly a possibility, but so is retaking so you don't have the spectre of $200,000 in loans hanging over your head.

[lawfreak]

Those stats are from the class of 2009, which had their OCIs and SAs pre-recession, and most schools report initial estimates of employment to be down a little for the class of 2010, so you can expect a little dip in the stats you provided.

And think about it this way, even if 20% do land biglaw (or close to it), that means you have an 80% chance of not landing big law, in which case you'll still have $200k worth of loans to pay off.

Most people here are just trying to help, and ultimately the decision is yours to make. You seem pretty set on making this happen, and I wish you the best of luck, it'd be great if things do work out. We're just trying to be as objective/realistic as possible to help you make a level headed decision.

Things are oversensationalized a tad here, I'll give you that. As long as you don't default the loans are very manageable and the government is willing to work with you in getting them taken care of, and in your instance maybe it won't even be that big of a deal with all that debt hanging over your head since you'll be in NYC, and I doubt you plan on buying a house or car anytime soon.

If I were you I'd just do some soul searching to ensure law is 100% what you want to do. Do research, contact current attorneys, get a job as an assistant if possible - and if it is then go for it and find a way to make it happen, just try to be responsible about it.

Thanks for being honest and reasonable unlike a lot of other jerks on this forum.

About knowing that I want to be a lawyer for certain - When it comes to the actual job of being a lawyer, I feel that it is virtually impossible for anyone to know if they really want to do a certain profession unless they have experienced the work for themselves first-hand. Being that you cannot practice law without going through law school and taking the bar exam, I think that anyone who claims they know for certain they want to be a lawyer before actually practicing as one, is straight out fooling themselves and their families.

[OGR3]

Those stats are from the class of 2009, which had their OCIs and SAs pre-recession, and most schools report initial estimates of employment to be down a little for the class of 2010, so you can expect a little dip in the stats you provided.

And think about it this way, even if 20% do land biglaw (or close to it), that means you have an 80% chance of not landing big law, in which case you'll still have $200k worth of loans to pay off.

Most people here are just trying to help, and ultimately the decision is yours to make. You seem pretty set on making this happen, and I wish you the best of luck, it'd be great if things do work out. We're just trying to be as objective/realistic as possible to help you make a level headed decision.

Things are oversensationalized a tad here, I'll give you that. As long as you don't default the loans are very manageable and the government is willing to work with you in getting them taken care of, and in your instance maybe it won't even be that big of a deal with all that debt hanging over your head since you'll be in NYC, and I doubt you plan on buying a house or car anytime soon.

If I were you I'd just do some soul searching to ensure law is 100% what you want to do. Do research, contact current attorneys, get a job as an assistant if possible - and if it is then go for it and find a way to make it happen, just try to be responsible about it.

Thanks for being honest and reasonable unlike a lot of other jerks on this forum.

About knowing that I want to be a lawyer for certain - When it comes to the actual job of being a lawyer, I feel that it is virtually impossible for anyone to know if they really want to do a certain profession unless they have experienced the work for themselves first-hand. Being that you cannot practice law without going through law school and taking the bar exam, I think that anyone who claims they know for certain they want to be a lawyer before actually practicing as one, is straight out fooling themselves and their families.

Did you know it's possible to work as a paralegal without getting a law degree?

[rman1201]

If you had bothered to read my previous post, you would have seen that you can get a school to sponsor you taking it again OR wait a while and retake after the three year limit has passed. You seem unbelievably intent on ruining your financial future.

Really intent on ruining my financial future? Why don't you check out this link http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf, look at which school is good enough to place 30 in the top 50 schools in the country in 2009 in landing the best jobs out there (20% were hired in one of the worst economies in the century, can't wait to see how much better it will be in coming years) and then tell me again that going to Cardozo is absolutely the worst financial decision a person can make.

Cardozo at sticker is among the absolutely worst financial decisions a person can make.

Agreed. Cardozo at sticker is going to be $200K+. Loan payments on that are going to almost $2,400 a month under the standard plan, $1,300 a month under a 30 year plan. IBR is certainly a possibility, but so is retaking so you don't have the spectre of $200,000 in loans hanging over your head.

A $50k salary with $200k debt would be $420 payments on IBR, but that wouldn't even cover the interest, so by the time it's forgiven the principal will have actually grown far beyond the initial 200k, with a tax bomb likely approaching $100k. So you're just trading Student loan debt for IRS debt. Idk if tax debt is dis-chargeable under bankruptcy though, so I guess thats a win? I'll look it up.

Edit: it is.
http://taxes.about.com/od/bankruptcy/qt ... cy_tax.htm

[FiveSermon]

Those stats are from the class of 2009, which had their OCIs and SAs pre-recession, and most schools report initial estimates of employment to be down a little for the class of 2010, so you can expect a little dip in the stats you provided.

And think about it this way, even if 20% do land biglaw (or close to it), that means you have an 80% chance of not landing big law, in which case you'll still have $200k worth of loans to pay off.

Most people here are just trying to help, and ultimately the decision is yours to make. You seem pretty set on making this happen, and I wish you the best of luck, it'd be great if things do work out. We're just trying to be as objective/realistic as possible to help you make a level headed decision.

Things are oversensationalized a tad here, I'll give you that. As long as you don't default the loans are very manageable and the government is willing to work with you in getting them taken care of, and in your instance maybe it won't even be that big of a deal with all that debt hanging over your head since you'll be in NYC, and I doubt you plan on buying a house or car anytime soon.

If I were you I'd just do some soul searching to ensure law is 100% what you want to do. Do research, contact current attorneys, get a job as an assistant if possible - and if it is then go for it and find a way to make it happen, just try to be responsible about it.

Thanks for being honest and reasonable unlike a lot of other jerks on this forum.

About knowing that I want to be a lawyer for certain - When it comes to the actual job of being a lawyer, I feel that it is virtually impossible for anyone to know if they really want to do a certain profession unless they have experienced the work for themselves first-hand. Being that you cannot practice law without going through law school and taking the bar exam, I think that anyone who claims they know for certain they want to be a lawyer before actually practicing as one, is straight out fooling themselves and their families.

IT DON'T MATTER JUST TELL ME WHY YOU WANT TO $200K FOR SUB 20% CHANCE AT BIGLAW. FINANCIAL INSANITY MUST BE EXPLAINED.

[Grizz]

Thanks for being honest and reasonable unlike a lot of other jerks on this forum.

About knowing that I want to be a lawyer for certain - When it comes to the actual job of being a lawyer, I feel that it is virtually impossible for anyone to know if they really want to do a certain profession unless they have experienced the work for themselves first-hand. Being that you cannot practice law without going through law school and taking the bar exam, I think that anyone who claims they know for certain they want to be a lawyer before actually practicing as one, is straight out fooling themselves and their families.

Become a paralegal, like other people have said. It's a pretty good idea to see if you will like it. You will do a lot of stuff, like talking to clients, drafting motions, doing research, etc. Every single atty. I've talked to has recommended it as a good experience.

[FiveSermon]

A $50k salary with $200k debt would be $420 payments on IBR, but that wouldn't even cover the interest, so by the time it's forgiven the principal will have actually grown far beyond the initial 200k, with a tax bomb likely approaching $100k. So you're just trading Student loan debt for IRS debt. Idk if tax debt is dis-chargeable under bankruptcy though, so I guess thats a win? I'll look it up.

YOU CAN'T DISCHARGE STUDENT LOAN DEBT UNDER BANKRUPTCY.

[Grizz]

A $50k salary with $200k debt would be $420 payments on IBR, but that wouldn't even cover the interest, so by the time it's forgiven the principal will have actually grown far beyond the initial 200k, with a tax bomb likely approaching $100k. So you're just trading Student loan debt for IRS debt. Idk if tax debt is dis-chargeable under bankruptcy though, so I guess thats a win? I'll look it up.

YOU CAN'T DISCHARGE STUDENT LOAN DEBT UNDER BANKRUPTCY.

That's not what he's suggesting.

[lawfreak]

Agreed. Cardozo at sticker is going to be $200K+. Loan payments on that are going to almost $2,400 a month under the standard plan, $1,300 a month under a 30 year plan. IBR is certainly a possibility, but so is retaking so you don't have the spectre of $200,000 in loans hanging over your head.

Whoa, hold on a second buddy...how did 45k a year for 3 years (45x3=135) come to 200k!!!??? I'm not renting an apartment. If you really want, I'll add 5k to books, that still only amounts to 140k, a whopping 60k less then the picture you and others here are painting!

[FiveSermon]

Agreed. Cardozo at sticker is going to be $200K+. Loan payments on that are going to almost $2,400 a month under the standard plan, $1,300 a month under a 30 year plan. IBR is certainly a possibility, but so is retaking so you don't have the spectre of $200,000 in loans hanging over your head.

Whoa, hold on a second buddy...how did 45k a year for 3 years (45x3=135) come to 200k!!!??? I'm not renting an apartment. If you really want, I'll add 5k to books, that still only amounts to 140k, a whopping 60k less then the picture you are painting!

Ok buddy. There is no real difference between paying off 140k vs 200k when you are making 50k/year.

[lawfreak]

Ok buddy. There is no real difference between paying off 140k vs 200k when you are making 50k/year.

You're assuming 50k a year, and I don't know about you but 60k makes a big difference in my book especially when you add interest.

[FiveSermon]

Ok buddy. There is no real difference between paying off 140k vs 200k when you are making 50k/year.

You're assuming 50k a year, and I don't know about you but 60k makes a big difference in my book especially when you add interest.

80% chance 50k a year. 20% chance not. I'd go with the 80%.

[lawfreak]

80% chance 50k a year. 20% chance not. I'd go with the 80%.

Since when did the other 80% of the class that didn't get biglaw go all the way down to 50k? Just because 20% are making in the mid 100ks, that doesnt mean that everyone else under that goes all the way down to 50k lol.

[OGR3]

Agreed. Cardozo at sticker is going to be $200K+. Loan payments on that are going to almost $2,400 a month under the standard plan, $1,300 a month under a 30 year plan. IBR is certainly a possibility, but so is retaking so you don't have the spectre of $200,000 in loans hanging over your head.

Whoa, hold on a second buddy...how did 45k a year for 3 years (45x3=135) come to 200k!!!??? I'm not renting an apartment. If you really want, I'll add 5k to books, that still only amounts to 140k, a whopping 60k less then the picture you and others here are painting!

Just an FYI, Cardozo raised its tuition from $44,600 to $46,224 this year. With a conservative estimate of 4% tuition increases for each of the next three years, you're looking at a sticker price of over $150,000.

[MrPapagiorgio]

80% chance 50k a year. 20% chance not. I'd go with the 80%.

Since when did the other 80% of the class that didn't get biglaw go all the way down to 50k? Just because 20% are making in the mid 100ks, that doesnt mean that everyone else under that goes all the way down to 50k lol.

Law salaries are bimodal, for at least the third time.