Full-Ride at T30 vs. Sticker T6 Forum

[Miracle]

This is because they're young and stupid and know nothing about life.

You're an asshole. HTH

Now that just hurts my feelings. Is it something I said?

lol

[romothesavior]

Either you have a huge chip on your shoulder or you are really not paying attention (possibly both). What we're saying is that HYS (well at least YS) give need based GRANTS. In other words they essentially give you a scholarship for being broke. Ie there would be no need to take out loans except for living expenses books etc.

I edited bro. See my above post.

[concurrent fork]

balls...there is so much bad advice in this thread.

OP: you have awesome numbers - please take either T6 or T10 + $$.

[UnTouChablE]

Take the T6 and give yoself a fucking chance!

If you take the T30 you might as well have lost before even getting in da game. The disparity in terms of employment prospects is enormous, it goes to the very heart of how 'biglaw' firms do business. They sell their customers on the degrees of the associates that they hire (pay $400/hr for the best attorney cause he went to...). Obviously am not saying noone other than student at top law schools get biglaw jobs but if you look at it this way, at least you give yourself a chance.

Business do not want to pay those crazy rates anymore but firms need to keep selling them on why they should keep shelling out the money.

Hiring is tough at the moment, every little boost helps and that includes 'prestige'. Don't play yourself, no debt (possibly) is not worth the insane drop in employment prospects. Times are tough but go to T30 and find out exactly how tough times are, at a T6 times are rough, yes but you are at a significant advantage. As a 1L applying for firm jobs I know I have received offers for little more than advertising. Who cares?

This is not all anecdotal evidence either do a search: class of 2011; hccn: 75-80% out of OCI, MVP:40% you see the dropoff is significant. (These are all TLS numbers btw but they tend to be more reliable than Career services)

Go to the T6 and stop bullshitin'!

Debt is bad but not being able to get a job is much much worse. I hate when ppl say at least you'all have no debt as if you can live off 'no debt'. You need a job! and HYSCCN gives you the best chance.

[romothesavior]

balls...there is so much bad advice in this thread.

OP: you have awesome numbers - please take either T6 or T10 + $$.

This is the absolute credited response. OP has great numbers, and shouldn't even be considering a T30 because he/she can probably go to school for free or close to free at a far better school.

[09042014]

IMO if you just want big law

Free T18 > YHS (near sticker) > CCN sticker > partial T14> free T1 > lower t14 at sticker >> t1 sticker

[vicuna]

IMO if you just want big law

Free T18 > YHS (near sticker) > CCN sticker > partial T14> free T1 > lower t14 at sticker >> t1 sticker

This is interesting. What about for PI/Gov?

[09042014]

IMO if you just want big law

Free T18 > YHS (near sticker) > CCN sticker > partial T14> free T1 > lower t14 at sticker >> t1 sticker

This is interesting. What about for PI/Gov?

If you absolutely cannot do anything but PI go the best school you can. But it seems like to me most of the PI people eventually just sell out and do big law.

I don't know enough about FedGov hiring. But it seems to be harder to get than big law. I can't really speculate.

[A&O]

For biglaw, I'm of the view that anything outside the T10, NU, and Duke would pretty much give you significant odds of not getting it, to speak nothing of T18 schools.

[09042014]

For biglaw, I'm of the view that anything outside the T10, NU, and Duke would pretty much give you significant odds of not getting it, to speak nothing of T18 schools.

People troll hard against Cornell because of one bad year of NLJ data. I so might add that one in there. It's got limited placement range. Basically it's only good for NYC.

But right now NYC is the only hot market. It wouldn't shock me if Cornell outplaces Boalt, and Michigan this year.

[A&O]

I don't really want to get into this argument again, so to each their own.

[UnTouChablE]

For biglaw, I'm of the view that anything outside the T10, NU, and Duke would pretty much give you significant odds of not getting it, to speak nothing of T18 schools.

People troll hard against Cornell because of one bad year of NLJ data. I so might add that one in there. It's got limited placement range. Basically it's only good for NYC.

But right now NYC is the only hot market. It wouldn't shock me if Cornell outplaces Boalt, and Michigan this year.

Cornell should definitely outplace Boalt if only because of location. Michigan not so sure but I think Boalt has been outperforming in pre-recession years and the economy slowed down that abnormal growth/employment trend.

[thunderflesh]

Take the T6 and give yoself a fucking chance!

If you take the T30 you might as well have lost before even getting in da game. The disparity in terms of employment prospects is enormous, it goes to the very heart of how 'biglaw' firms do business. They sell their customers on the degrees of the associates that they hire (pay $400/hr for the best attorney cause he went to...). Obviously am not saying noone other than student at top law schools get biglaw jobs but if you look at it this way, at least you give yourself a chance.

Business do not want to pay those crazy rates anymore but firms need to keep selling them on why they should keep shelling out the money.

Hiring is tough at the moment, every little boost helps and that includes 'prestige'. Don't play yourself, no debt (possibly) is not worth the insane drop in employment prospects. Times are tough but go to T30 and find out exactly how tough times are, at a T6 times are rough, yes but you are at a significant advantage. As a 1L applying for firm jobs I know I have received offers for little more than advertising. Who cares?

This is not all anecdotal evidence either do a search: class of 2011; hccn: 75-80% out of OCI, MVP:40% you see the dropoff is significant. (These are all TLS numbers btw but they tend to be more reliable than Career services)

Go to the T6 and stop bullshitin'!

Debt is bad but not being able to get a job is much much worse. I hate when ppl say at least you'all have no debt as if you can live off 'no debt'. You need a job! and HYSCCN gives you the best chance.

Not saying I'm an expert, but this is my reaction too.

Also, I feel like I'd regret not taking the chance to go to a T6 school for the rest of my life, even if it means 5 more years in debt, or something.

[bk1]

Not saying I'm an expert, but this is my reaction too.

Also, I feel like I'd regret not taking the chance to go to a T6 school for the rest of my life, even if it means 5 more years in debt, or something.

When you strike out of biglaw and don't manage a job that is eligible for LRAP, settling for some 40-60k shitlaw position is way more than 5 more years of debt.

Because there is a very real chance that will happen, it is definitely safer to take a full ride at a top regional school.

[UnTouChablE]

Not saying I'm an expert, but this is my reaction too.

Also, I feel like I'd regret not taking the chance to go to a T6 school for the rest of my life, even if it means 5 more years in debt, or something.

When you strike out of biglaw and don't manage a job that is eligible for LRAP, settling for some 40-60k shitlaw position is way more than 5 more years of debt.

Because there is a very real chance that will happen, it is definitely safer to take a full ride at a top regional school.

Things that need to happen for you to be SOL at HYSCCN:

Bomb 1st semester, Bomb second semester, Bad bidding strategy, no personality, no luck, job does not qualify for IBR, job does not qualify for LRAP => all this happens then maybe you are screwed at HYSCCN

Things that need to happen at T30 to be SOL:

Bomb first semester (Lost your scholarship) and that is that, you are done.

You keep your scholarship (stipulation top 60%), no OCI, no LRAP, not distinguishable from your peers cause you are at median. Small chance at bullshit jobs.

'Safer' is subjective but going to T30 full ride ova any T6 is dumb barring a very extraordinary circumstance which OP failed to mention.

[bk1]

Where in the fucking hell did I mention having stipulations? Obviously with stipulations things are insanely risky.

IBR is 25 years, big fucking whoop. Some LRAP's are fairly hard to qualify for. You do realize that at least 1/3 of CCN is basically bombing both semesters? It's hard for a bidding strategy or personality to make up for having bad grades. And luck? Why the fuck are you even bringing up luck like it means something to this discussion?

Safer is graduating with sub $50k debt with a high chance at a job (whether it is shitlaw or not) as opposed to the very real chance of having $200k debt with a sizeable chance that you miss biglaw/LRAP and have to to do shitlaw.

[09042014]

Not many T30 have scholarship stips.

[rundoxierun]

Where in the fucking hell did I mention having stipulations? Obviously with stipulations things are insanely risky.

IBR is 25 years, big fucking whoop. Some LRAP's are fairly hard to qualify for. You do realize that at least 1/3 of CCN is basically bombing both semesters? It's hard for a bidding strategy or personality to make up for having bad grades. And luck? Why the fuck are you even bringing up luck like it means something to this discussion?

Safer is graduating with sub $50k debt with a high chance at a job (whether it is shitlaw or not) as opposed to the very real chance of having $200k debt with a sizeable chance that you miss biglaw/LRAP and have to to do shitlaw.

TBF.. the % of the class missing biglaw(or comparable salary range)/LRAP is probably like 10-20% max. At some T30 that is the % of the class making biglaw or comparable salary with a significant portion either never practicing law or hanging shingles.. For me, it isnt any safer b/c of the comparably huge risk of wasting 3 valuable years of your life.

[bk1]

TBF.. the % of the class missing biglaw(or comparable salary range)/LRAP is probably like 10-20% max. At some T30 that is the % of the class making biglaw or comparable salary with a significant portion either never practicing law or hanging shingles.. For me, it isnt any safer b/c of the comparably huge risk of wasting 3 valuable years of your life.

That's fair, not all T30's are equal. Still 20% is a huge when you're gambling 200k.

I understand for you, but it is different for others. 3 years is fine for people who genuinely want to be lawyers and are fine making a salary on the low end and living normally with manageable debt.

[pereira6]

All I know is, paying 200k for a T6 and not getting a BigLaw job or PI--> LRAP means a whole lot of trouble.

And from what I understand, many, many kids at CCN are NOT getting biglaw OR PI/LRAP

[Voyager]

Not saying I'm an expert, but this is my reaction too.

Also, I feel like I'd regret not taking the chance to go to a T6 school for the rest of my life, even if it means 5 more years in debt, or something.

When you strike out of biglaw and don't manage a job that is eligible for LRAP, settling for some 40-60k shitlaw position is way more than 5 more years of debt.

Because there is a very real chance that will happen, it is definitely safer to take a full ride at a top regional school.

Things that need to happen for you to be SOL at HYSCCN:

Bomb 1st semester, Bomb second semester, Bad bidding strategy, no personality, no luck, job does not qualify for IBR, job does not qualify for LRAP => all this happens then maybe you are screwed at HYSCCN

Things that need to happen at T30 to be SOL:

Bomb first semester (Lost your scholarship) and that is that, you are done.

You keep your scholarship (stipulation top 60%), no OCI, no LRAP, not distinguishable from your peers cause you are at median. Small chance at bullshit jobs.

'Safer' is subjective but going to T30 full ride ova any T6 is dumb barring a very extraordinary circumstance which OP failed to mention.

I admire your confidence in CCN. But the fact is, if you are merely in the bottom 1/3 of those schools you should be worried- not out of luck completely- but definitely worried. Is that "bombing"?

Otherwise I think you are right.

[A&O]

You all seem to be forgetting that OP doesn't want to be just any lawyer. He wants to be a corporate lawyer.

Probably not happening from UGA. Telling him to take the full ride so he has a better chance at getting a job he doesn't want is like telling him to go to dental school because there are more job opportunities there. He doesn't want to be a dentist. He doesn't want to be just any lawyer. He wants to be a corporate lawyer.

[bk1]

You all seem to be forgetting that OP doesn't want to be just any lawyer. He wants to be a corporate lawyer.

Probably not happening from UGA. Telling him to take the full ride so he has a better chance at getting a job he doesn't want is like telling him to go to dental school because there are more job opportunities there. He doesn't want to be a dentist. He doesn't want to be just any lawyer. He wants to be a corporate lawyer.

You're overstating it. OP said he had an "initial interest in being a corporate lawyer but doesn't really know much" but is rethinking T6 due to the risks of sticker. To which I think saying that T30 for free is fair to say considering the OP didn't give a clear hardline about wanting to be a corporate lawyer (unless I missed it in a follow up post).

[AreJay711]

Not saying I'm an expert, but this is my reaction too.

Also, I feel like I'd regret not taking the chance to go to a T6 school for the rest of my life, even if it means 5 more years in debt, or something.

When you strike out of biglaw and don't manage a job that is eligible for LRAP, settling for some 40-60k shitlaw position is way more than 5 more years of debt.

Because there is a very real chance that will happen, it is definitely safer to take a full ride at a top regional school.

Things that need to happen for you to be SOL at HYSCCN:

Bomb 1st semester, Bomb second semester, Bad bidding strategy, no personality, no luck, job does not qualify for IBR, job does not qualify for LRAP => all this happens then maybe you are screwed at HYSCCN

Things that need to happen at T30 to be SOL:

Bomb first semester (Lost your scholarship) and that is that, you are done.

You keep your scholarship (stipulation top 60%), no OCI, no LRAP, not distinguishable from your peers cause you are at median. Small chance at bullshit jobs.

'Safer' is subjective but going to T30 full ride ova any T6 is dumb barring a very extraordinary circumstance which OP failed to mention.

Small chance at bullshit jobs? I think you might have an overly pessimistic view of most t30 schools. It isn't that any large percentage of the class is unemployed, just that they don't get biglaw jobs

Also, I think taking some money at a school in between might be the best anyway. T6 schools don't have much better employment prospects except at the very best firms and overall biglaw placement is about the same. Also, people saying that they don't see how 100K is that much easier to repay than 200K aren't thinking. The monthly payments are less than 1/2 (half the principle but less interest) so it makes shitlaw much more financially viable.

[athenian]

Let's not act like "big law" jobs are non-existant for a UGA grad. While Atlanta was hit hard by the recession (who wasn't) there are still jobs available in a market that UGA, quite frankly, dominates.

From the attorneys I've talked to, Atlanta is a market where lawyers get loads more respect. Unlike New York, where you're likely taking orders from some 24-year old Gordon Gekko wannabe with an MBA and a serious coke habit. Factor in lower CoL and better weather... being a lawyer in Atlanta, especially in biglaw isn't that bad.

Obviously, finishing towards the top of the class is not a sure thing for OP. With his numbers and the respect UGA has for him, I'd like to think he stands a good chance in graduating in a position that makes him a very attractive candidate for biglaw in Atlanta.

Personally, I'd full ride. If you don't land a biglaw job or you find out that being a lawyer sucks... you aren't in some form of indentured servitude until you payback a bunch of huge loans. Finishing in the top of your class at UGA puts you in the running for a bunch of well-paid positions in Atlanta and doesn't eliminate your hopes of "biglaw"