Columbia vs. NYU (vs. Chicago) Forum

[Stringer6]

Was your decision to live in Morningside for financial reasons or because you like the neighborhood more?

lol

[Sogui]

Any general consensus on which of CCN places the best in Westcoast biglaw?

Can't speak for Chicago but since Columbia has a reputation for chasing biglaw, has the "ivy" badge, and other factors; I have no doubt that they have an easier time placing in Westcoast biglaw over NYU.

[mrmangs]

Also relevant to my interests.

[polyester]

Was your decision to live in Morningside for financial reasons or because you like the neighborhood more?

lol

I realized that my post came off as a bit snarky , but I was seeking a serious answer. I'm going to go to Columbia next year and I was wondering what advantages Morningside had.

[sophie316]

Was your decision to live in Morningside for financial reasons or because you like the neighborhood more?

lol

I realized that my post came off as a bit snarky , but I was seeking a serious answer. I'm going to go to Columbia next year and I was wondering what advantages Morningside had.

I like the neighbourhood more. The $700 a month drop in rent didn't hurt though.

I have a special affinity for morningside though because I did my undergrad at Columbia. I probably would have moved to the 70s or 80s if I;d had the choice, but the friend I was thinking of living with got into Columbia business so it made more sense for just one of us to have to commute rather than both. Honestly I love the UWS(did 4 years at Columbia then 2 years living on 81st before law school). It's more homey/liveable, there are parks(central and riverside are awesome) and great grocery stores(fairway, trader joes, whole foods, westside all deliver to the UWS), movie theatres, restaurants etc but so easy to get downtown on the 123/ABCD. But some people like the bustle of the village(I did not). Plus the amount I save on rent, I can take cabs home late at night from downtown.

[sbalive]

Was your decision to live in Morningside for financial reasons or because you like the neighborhood more?

lol

I realized that my post came off as a bit snarky , but I was seeking a serious answer. I'm going to go to Columbia next year and I was wondering what advantages Morningside had.

If you go to Columbia, it's mostly convenience -- I would live there unless you really need a cheap 1 bedroom or generally just want a nicer apartment on the Harlem side of Morningside Park. I like living north of campus (but still in Morningside) because you can use the 125th Harlem subway stop and catch expresses that get downtown in 20 minutes. I think that makes it a lot easier than relying on the 1. I've lived in really urban areas before, so it's nice to be in a more chill area with actual trees and birds that's still close to stuff and has a real neighborhood feel. And, I love the running in Riverside & Central Park. I saw an owl sitting in a tree the other day. That was pretty cool.

[starrydreamz3]

Bumping this thread since Columbia decisions are out and now we can stop speculating and start actually discussing.

Personally (no offense Chicago) its between Columbia and NYU for me. Leaning towards Columbia but will definitely attend both ASWs!

[A&O]

If there's one nearly universal complaint I've heard about Columbia, it's that the administration doesn't seem to care about their students. At all.

But other than that, I know great people at both schools. Generalizing is dumb. Go where you feel right. If you're going to quibble over an apparent 4%-5% disparity in placing into elite big firms, then you're probably not going to have a lot of friends anyways, so the social atmosphere at either school shouldn't be a big deal to you in that event.

[rundoxierun]

god.. this is the worst thread ever.

[booboo]

IAFG won this thread.

[Knock]

Any general consensus on which of CCN places the best in Westcoast biglaw?

Can't speak for Chicago but since Columbia has a reputation for chasing biglaw, has the "ivy" badge, and other factors; I have no doubt that they have an easier time placing in Westcoast biglaw over NYU.

This question is relevant to my interests. Can anyone else give some input? Thanks.

[jcn4]

Why is it that Chicago gets so many more SC clerkships as a % of class size than Columbia and NYU?

[Knock]

Why is it that Chicago gets so many more SC clerkships as a % of class size than Columbia and NYU?

Chicago has a much smaller class size than CLS or NYU? Idk, just a guess.

[A&O]

Any general consensus on which of CCN places the best in Westcoast biglaw?

Can't speak for Chicago but since Columbia has a reputation for chasing biglaw, has the "ivy" badge, and other factors; I have no doubt that they have an easier time placing in Westcoast biglaw over NYU.

This question is relevant to my interests. Can anyone else give some input? Thanks.

I'm not really sure that the whole Columbia has an "easier time placing in the west coast" thing is true. Just strikes me as speculation

Why is it that Chicago gets so many more SC clerkships as a % of class size than Columbia and NYU?

Chicago has traditionally been a much more "academic" law school than Columbia and NYU.

[jcn4]

Why is it that Chicago gets so many more SC clerkships as a % of class size than Columbia and NYU?

Chicago has a much smaller class size than CLS or NYU? Idk, just a guess.

There's a small negative correlation between class size and % of class in SC clerkship, but it isn't enough to explain the disparity.

[Knock]

Why is it that Chicago gets so many more SC clerkships as a % of class size than Columbia and NYU?

Chicago has a much smaller class size than CLS or NYU? Idk, just a guess.

There's a small negative correlation between class size and % of class in SC clerkship, but it isn't enough to explain the disparity.

Gotcha, well disregard my uninformed speculation then .

[legalmindedfella]

While I can't speak to this with any hard data - rendering my point mostly useless - given the Federalist Society's strong ties to Chicago and the generally right-wing bent of the law & economics movement, the school acquired a bit of a conservative reputation over the years. This may have made its top students more likely to get clerkships with conservative judges on the bench relative to their peers. Republican presidents tend to be careful about appointing conservatives as opposed to moderates (unlike Democrats), so since Reagan and through Bush I and Bush II the proportion of conservative judges on the bench has risen.

But feel free to demolish that, just had always been my sense.

Edit: This would apply doubly to the Supreme Court, where Kennedy picks mostly conservative clerks and the four conservative justices are very careful about who they pick

[jcn4]

While I can't speak to this with any hard data - rendering my point mostly useless - given the Federalist Society's strong ties to Chicago and the generally right-wing bent of the law & economics movement, the school acquired a bit of a conservative reputation over the years. This may have made its top students more likely to get clerkships with conservative judges on the bench relative to their peers. Republican presidents tend to be careful about appointing conservatives as opposed to moderates (unlike Democrats), so since Reagan and through Bush I and Bush II the proportion of conservative judges on the bench has risen.

But feel free to demolish that, just had always been my sense.

Edit: This would apply doubly to the Supreme Court, where Kennedy picks mostly conservative clerks and the four conservative justices are very careful about who they pick

Good point. I just crunched some numbers, and it looks like this is very true. SC clerks from U Chicago are very much weighted toward the right wing of the court.

For the Justices currently on the court, only 3% of clerks for the left of the court have been from Chicago, while 15% of the clerks from the right have been. Columbia is similarly lopsided towards the left of the court. If you add Stevens back in it looks a little better for Chicago lefties - 6% vs 15%. (This is all counting Kennedy on the right). Scalia, Thomas, and Kennedy seem to like Chicago grads a lot.

Kagan and Sotomayor haven't had a clerk from Chicago, but they've only had 12 altogether.

[jcn4]

Here's how it breaks down for the current 9, by the way. Numbers are % of total clerks for the respective wing of the court:

Code: Select all

School		%Left	%Right
Yale		  26%	  18%
Harvard	  29%	  27%
Stanford	  7%	   6%
Columbia	 15%	   3%
Chicago	   3%	  15%
NYU			 3%	   1%

[legalmindedfella]

Awesome numbers-crunching - many many thanks.

And those #s basically show one dilemma for anyone thinking of U of C. The advantage in clerking that is one major selling point of its academic/intellectual reputation seems to evaporate for those not intending to join the Federalist Society.

Now granted, part of the appeal of Chicago is also that there really is a strong conservative intellectual current there - and that means you're going to be getting a broader and more challenging perspective. I'm not out to demonize anyone. But it's concerning on this level.

[JG Hall]

While I can't speak to this with any hard data - rendering my point mostly useless - given the Federalist Society's strong ties to Chicago and the generally right-wing bent of the law & economics movement, the school acquired a bit of a conservative reputation over the years. This may have made its top students more likely to get clerkships with conservative judges on the bench relative to their peers. Republican presidents tend to be careful about appointing conservatives as opposed to moderates (unlike Democrats), so since Reagan and through Bush I and Bush II the proportion of conservative judges on the bench has risen.

But feel free to demolish that, just had always been my sense.

Edit: This would apply doubly to the Supreme Court, where Kennedy picks mostly conservative clerks and the four conservative justices are very careful about who they pick

Good point. I just crunched some numbers, and it looks like this is very true. SC clerks from U Chicago are very much weighted toward the right wing of the court.

For the Justices currently on the court, only 3% of clerks for the left of the court have been from Chicago, while 15% of the clerks from the right have been. Columbia is similarly lopsided towards the left of the court. If you add Stevens back in it looks a little better for Chicago lefties - 6% vs 15%. (This is all counting Kennedy on the right). Scalia, Thomas, and Kennedy seem to like Chicago grads a lot.

Kagan and Sotomayor haven't had a clerk from Chicago, but they've only had 12 altogether.

I think it's a mistake to say Columbia skews "to the left" politically. Ginsburg just hires an alum every year, but not for political reasons.

[jcn4]

I think it's a mistake to say Columbia skews "to the left" politically. Ginsburg just hires an alum every year, but not for political reasons.

Yeah, I just meant that Columbia clerks are much more represented on the left side of the Court than the right. Scalia worked at Chicago, so there may not be a particularly political reason for him choosing Chicago grads.

It's also worth noting that Ginsberg is the oldest person on the Court, so this info might not be that relevant the class of 2014 (on the other hand, is anyone on TLS really going to clerk on the Supreme Court?)

[Renzo]

on the other hand, is anyone on TLS really going to clerk on the Supreme Court?

I wish people would ask themselves this question more often around here.

Rather than obsessing over single-digit historical differences in various placements from very similar schools, people would be better served obsessing about where they would be the happiest, most likely to want to end up (geographically), etc.

[clintonius]

FUCK YOU ALL I HAVE TO DO IS GET STRAIGHT A-PLUSES NEXT SEMESTER AND THEN A 4.0 AVERAGE FOR TWO YEARS AFTER THAT. THE SUPREME COURT IS MINE

[legalmindedfella]

Other federal judges know the reputations/intellectual leanings of schools, too. Supreme Court indicators aren't necessarily useless for trying to figure out something about the school's ideological profile. COA judges, and especially the feeders, also presumably feed mostly to one side of the court or the other.

But granted, obviously if any of us do so well that we feel cheated out of a Supreme Court clerkship, then something still went right.