UF v. Miami... and is 26 old? Forum

[darknightbegins]

Darknightbegins, you just spent a lot of time saying practically nothing.

Why do I keep pounding in the fact that UF > UM statewide/overall? Because in the not-so-unlikely event that the law grad, for whatever reason, can't secure a job in South Florida or decides that Miami isn't so great after all, that is going to make all the difference. I'm sorry if you have been missing that. I and several others have tried to make it clear enough.

As for your residency blurb - it doesn't say anything new. There are certain requirements that must be met by non-residents to qualify for in-state tuition after the first year. Yes, we already knew that. None of those specified are overly intimidating. The supposedly-absent anecdotal evidence can be found on the UF website - I repeat, the vast majority of out-of-staters secure in-state status after the first year. How they go about doing that can almost certainly be ascertained, if necessary, by asking the right people.

As for your math - it says exactly what I said before. UF is cheaper than UM. Whether or not the savings compensate for the lack of South Beach is a matter of opinion.

Alright Lomax fine. Believe as you wish. I think we have both already made our cases and I'm not sure what is left to say. If OP knows for sure they are paying in state tuition for all three years then I would likely choose Florida over 23K at Miami. If there is any question about in state tuition then I think OP should look long and hard at out of state vs 23K at Miami.

Best of luck to the OP in whichever school she chooses.

[utexas2010]

From personal experience I think Gainesville is a complete dump. I stopped there on the way to Miami, ironically, and was thrilled to hurry up and leave. There is nothing visually appealing about the city of Gainesville or the surrounding areas...think of it as Florida's long lost cesspool. I really do not know about the school itself but all I can think of is the "Mexican" food I ate there and how horrible it was haha...probably the worst I have ever eaten. This disappoints me b/c I like UF sports but don't let the name "Florida" fool you. It's more like being in the middle of Louisiana. But then again, dumb college students love an isolated party town where they can drink all day and run into the woods or whatever. I will take the beach, women, international influence, and beauty of Miami anyday.

[Lomax]

From personal experience I think Gainesville is a complete dump. I stopped there on the way to Miami, ironically, and was thrilled to hurry up and leave. There is nothing visually appealing about the city of Gainesville or the surrounding areas...think of it as Florida's long lost cesspool. I really do not know about the school itself but all I can think of is the "Mexican" food I ate there and how horrible it was haha...probably the worst I have ever eaten. This disappoints me b/c I like UF sports but don't let the name "Florida" fool you. It's more like being in the middle of Louisiana. But then again, dumb college students love an isolated party town where they can drink all day and run into the woods or whatever. I will take the beach, women, international influence, and beauty of Miami anyday.

Perhaps I should go now to the UC Hastings thread and deliver my verdict based on my drive through San Francisco.

From my limited personal experience, Gainesville is a great small city with everything you could possibly need. It has a population of about 100,000, and the amenities you would expect to service such a population, plus everything that comes along with UF - sports, culture. Night life? Who cares, I'm done with undergrad and going to law school. The beach at St. Augustine is 2 hours away, Orlando, Tampa, and Jacksonville are each an hour and a half away. There are three diverse state parks and one big lake within city limits. One of those state parks has animal life ranging from alligators to bison. Temperatures are in the upper-60s in January, and there are palm trees and Spanish moss all over. Traffic is not bad, and the whole west side of town seems upscale and free of crime. There is also a nice hospital. Also, cost of living is cheap.

Miami I have lived in. I like it, but it isn't paradise for everyone, and has its problems. Traffic, crime, and cost of living are big ones.

For law school, I'd honestly rather live in Miami, all costs being equal, but I'll be perfectly happy in Gainesville.

[Lomax]

UF is massively overrated. UF thinks higher of itself as an institution (in both undergrad and law) than it actually is. It's been falling in the rankings and cutting the class size is only a band aid. I was originally planning on applying there and making it my #1 when the cycle started and I didn't even apply after what I heard (ie. that is is EXTREMELY cutthroat and there is not a friendly vibe among the students). The placement is only marginal over UM/FSU and overall it's a school on the decline. UF may have at one time been the best school in FL by a large margin, but the margin is shrinking and FSU/UM are catching up (remember, FSU was only ONE spot behind in the USNWR rankings last year).

Objection. Move to strike. Improper opinion and/or hearsay. You have absolutely no objective evidence other than those oh-so-notoriously-unreliable US News rankings with which to back up these bold statements that go against the generally accepted (and well-evidenced) opinion on the contrary - that is, that UF is underrated, that its student body is not overly competitive, and that the general order of supremacy in Florida is stable enough. I realize that I may be putting a burden of proof on you that is impossible to overcome, given the circumstances, but perhaps you could at least be more specific with your hearsay and tell us what your contacts in the Florida legal community who claim that UF is on the decline refer to as evidence for their claim?

[keg411]

UF is massively overrated. UF thinks higher of itself as an institution (in both undergrad and law) than it actually is. It's been falling in the rankings and cutting the class size is only a band aid. I was originally planning on applying there and making it my #1 when the cycle started and I didn't even apply after what I heard (ie. that is is EXTREMELY cutthroat and there is not a friendly vibe among the students). The placement is only marginal over UM/FSU and overall it's a school on the decline. UF may have at one time been the best school in FL by a large margin, but the margin is shrinking and FSU/UM are catching up (remember, FSU was only ONE spot behind in the USNWR rankings last year).

Objection. Move to strike. Improper opinion and/or hearsay. You have absolutely no objective evidence other than those oh-so-notoriously-unreliable US News rankings with which to back up these bold statements that go against the generally accepted (and well-evidenced) opinion on the contrary - that is, that UF is underrated, that its student body is not overly competitive, and that the general order of supremacy in Florida is stable enough. I realize that I may be putting a burden of proof on you that is impossible to overcome, given the circumstances, but perhaps you could at least be more specific with your hearsay and tell us what your contacts in the Florida legal community who claim that UF is on the decline refer to as evidence for their claim?

Friends who work there and went to school there (I have friends that went to UF and UM Law; no one who goes to FSU). Variety of jobs from BigLaw to Small Law to PI. I was specifically told NOT to apply to UF. I trust my friends, but of course, I don't expect others to. I can't point to documents or anything like that because it isn't there, I have what people I know and trust tell me. If you want to believe otherwise that is your prerogative and maybe your experience will be different. I started out this cycle with UF as a top choice and didn't even end up applying based on the information I was given. I don't expect others to have the same sources as me (considering they are personal friends and it would be way creepy).

I don't know how I can get you evidence, because I'm not going to be like "hey, friend, instead of working, why don't you go trash UF on a law school board"! That's weird. So I can't get you actual evidence. It's all anecdotal.

My friend who told me most of this information got an excellent job out of there so this isn't a bitter, unemployed JDU-esque source.

[Lomax]

Friends who work there and went to school there (I have friends that went to UF and UM Law; no one who goes to FSU). Variety of jobs from BigLaw to Small Law to PI. I was specifically told NOT to apply to UF. I trust my friends, but of course, I don't expect others to. I can't point to documents or anything like that because it isn't there, I have what people I know and trust tell me. If you want to believe otherwise that is your prerogative and maybe your experience will be different. I started out this cycle with UF as a top choice and didn't even end up applying based on the information I was given. I don't expect others to have the same sources as me (considering they are personal friends and it would be way creepy).

I don't know how I can get you evidence, because I'm not going to be like "hey, friend, instead of working, why don't you go trash UF on a law school board"! That's weird. So I can't get you actual evidence. It's all anecdotal.

My friend who told me most of this information got an excellent job out of there so this isn't a bitter, unemployed JDU-esque source.

Fair enough for you to take your friend's word on UF being a bad choice without him giving you any objective basis for his opinion. After all, you know him and can take his word on face value. We don't know him, and can't.

[kathy2op]

Wow, it's a quite a debate here... I was at the same shoes last year choosing between Miami w/ scholarship or UF instate, and I went for UF. Thank God! I was one of those student who was pretty sure after having 4.0 undergrad GPA that to maintain 3.2 to keep scholarship is nothing... Not exactly. When you are competing against another 300-400 brilliant people, you can never assume you will get required GPA for sure. I didn't, and I glad I went to UF because it would be painful for me to come up with UM tuition next year on my own.
Anyway, if anyone needs some insight from another 1L UF law student, about anything - classes, studying, proffs, gainesville, housing, whatever - feel free to ask.
P.S. I also was 26 last year when I started UF, and I am by far not the oldest person in my class.

[Lomax]

Here is some testimony to directly refute your friend's, keg411.

Another 1L UF law student here - if anyone has any questions - about anything, feel free to ask, or PM me!

In your experience, is the UF student body overly competitive? In your experience, is the UF community contaminated with bad professors and unfriendly students? Is there any evidence, to your knowledge, of UF being a law school "in decline"? Is absolutely nobody at UF getting jobs through OCI? Is there any reason to believe, as far as you know, that the University of Miami would place the average student better in South Florida than UF would? Are you pleased with your choice of UF? Are others you know pleased with their choice of UF?

There are some competition feels of course, but it is true about any law school you will go. Law school works on steep curve, and professors usually only able to give away few As, few Cs, and the rest gets Bs. But it's nothing close to those horrible stories I heard before I started law school. No one hides book, people willing to share their notes and explain you something you just didn't get in class. It gets much intense though few weeks before finals start, but I usually just try to get out of school and study home to avoid all the pressure.

So far I was pleased with most of my professors, there are some individuals I would not take again (hey, it's not Harvard law afterall), but in general they all are extremely approachable and willing to help you as much as you can. I found for myself that I understand the hardest topics my better in professor's office during his/her office hours, then in class when they through random questions at the students doing their Socratic thing.

I would not say that UF is the school "in decline". The right way is to say that there some great schools in the FL that try to catch up with it. But the truth is - UF DOES has enormous reputation in the state and one of the largest alumni networks in the country. So it is probably going to be quite a while before another law school will get on the same level or ahead of the UF (of course I am talking only about FL schools).

Most of the students are very friendly. UF has EXTREMELY diverse student body. There a lot of international students, from different countries, different backgrounds, large range of ages. I would be surprise if someone would have hard tome to find sole-mates and friends here.

Another 1L UF law student here - if anyone has any questions - about anything, feel free to ask, or PM me!

Is absolutely nobody at UF getting jobs through OCI? Is there any reason to believe, as far as you know, that the University of Miami would place the average student better in South Florida than UF would? Are you pleased with your choice of UF? Are others you know pleased with their choice of UF?

I would never say that absolutely nobody gets jobs through OCI. Of course, it is not the same as it used to be before the economic fall, but there still firms come to interview on campus, just not as much as it used to be, and of course, they do hire some students when they come. It's very hard but not impossible to get 1L summer job through OCI, just because firms in general try to stay away from 1L. I did not apply myself for OCI this year because I decided to do summer abroad, but I saw today couple of people from my section had interview on campus and they said it went very well.
Different story when you are 2L. From what I heard from 2 and 3L students, you have to be really in the top 15% of your class to get decent chance to be selected for OCI. But even if you do not get OCI and just trying to reach employees on your own, UF on your resume is definately will help you open more doors in FL than any school. I heard that by now almost everyone who graduated last year has a job somewhere.

Another 1L UF law student here - if anyone has any questions - about anything, feel free to ask, or PM me!

Is there any reason to believe, as far as you know, that the University of Miami would place the average student better in South Florida than UF would? Are you pleased with your choice of UF? Are others you know pleased with their choice of UF?

I have already objectively decided that UF is the best choice in Florida in all but a few rare situations, but your answering these questions will likely put to rest (or confirm) the fears of others.

UM do not place better than UF anywhere. Period. It may seem that it places better in Miami, but it's only because Um is in Miami and 80% student stay there, while UF class spread all over Florida and some go out of state (primarily Atlanta and DC). What UM provides and it is hands down, it's convenience to set up interviews and network in Miami. But it's only in regard of Miami. Once you go further North - Ft Lauderdale, Boca, Palm Beach, Orlando, etc - the UF degree will do much better job for you.
I myself considered over 10 schools instate and out-state when I applied last year.
The pros of my chose of UF - still the best regarded school ion the state, among the cheapest (in-state) tuition you can still find in the country, very law COL, great faculty, huge library, not too competitive students.
Cons - law school is in fact really tough (but it's true of any school, so I shouldn't be saying it), facilities is not too fancy (our cafeteria is a joke!, but it is a state school and it has limited financing compare to Miami or Stetson), Gainesville is extremely boring if you are over 25 and moved from a big city. On the other had, you don't have that much time to go out your first year anyway.
I have not yet heard ONE person in my law school who would regret choosing UF. There is still no equal competitor to it in FL.

[Sky'stheLimit]

I have the same decision to make. Im in at Rutgers-Nwk, Seton Hall w/ 25k a year, UM w/ 23k a year, and hoping for UF and FSU. However, I have lived in South FL most of my life, so I have a little bit more insight than I think a lot of the people who have responded to this thread.

First take a look at UF's, UM's, and FSU's NLJ placement. UF and UM are about equal, and double FSU's. However, I can tell you that almost all of UM's Alum stay in Miami and Ft. Laud., and UF's are pretty evenly scattered throughout Tamp, SoFLa, Orlando, Jacksonville, etc.

Second, according to Ms Therese Lampert, the Director of Student Recruiting, last year 89% of students on scholarship managed to keep them. If you factored the 3.2 GPA stipulation, instead the past 3.0 stipulation, about 80% would have kept their scholarships. A 3.2 GPA is the top 1/3 of the class, and about 25% of incoming students are on scholarship.

Third, as far as culture is concerned, UM is very different than UF. For UM think beaches, boats, beautiful people, diversity, blowouts, green cards, hispanic, ocean, wealth, oppertunity, networking, nightclubs, palm trees.

For UF think southern, academic, redneck, elitest (not necessarily a bad thing), a fantastic university-wide alum network (tho I think UM law has better law alumni), a fantastic collegiate culture, and in the middle of nowhere.

That's a decent description of both schools. If it was for undergrad, I would definitely say go to UF, but for LS it's a tough decision. Also, b/c employment prospect at UM really are dependent on their alumni network, I think that might be more resistant the current economic condition than simply rankings (b/c UF isnt much better than FSU and UM).

Finally, read the TLS UF description. FL in-state tuition laws have changed, you wont be able to get in-state rates if you dont start with them.

Just some stuff to think about. You really cant go wrong either, if you stay in FL.

PS: I dont know UF's number, but UM has 11,000 alumni in FL alone.

[Cupidity]

The linguistic skill displayed on this thread are atrocious. Please, for the love of grammar, have some dignity and use correct verb-conjugations.

[baboon309]

Second, according to Ms Therese Lampert, the Director of Student Recruiting, last year 89% of students on scholarship kept them. and with the new increased GPA stipulation, about 80% would. A GPA of 3.2 is the top 1/3 of the class, and about 25% of incoming students are on scholarship.

Try again

[jkh]

The linguistic skill displayed on this thread are atrocious.

[melaniec]

The linguistic skill displayed on this thread are atrocious. Please, for the love of grammar, have some dignity and use correct verb-conjugations.

Just wanted to point out your noun-verb disagreement: "The linguistic skill..are atrocious."

[Cupidity]

The linguistic skill displayed on this thread are atrocious. Please, for the love of grammar, have some dignity and use correct verb-conjugations.

Just wanted to point out your noun-verb disagreement: "The linguistic skill..are atrocious."

[Sky'stheLimit]

The linguistic skill displayed on this thread are atrocious. Please, for the love of grammar, have some dignity and use correct verb-conjugations.

You're right, sorry. I just read my post lol. I cleaned it up a little. Im watching Law Abiding Citizen while TLSing, if that's any excuse. My bad!

[Sky'stheLimit]

Second, according to Ms Therese Lampert, the Director of Student Recruiting, last year 89% of students on scholarship kept them. and with the new increased GPA stipulation, about 80% would. A GPA of 3.2 is the top 1/3 of the class, and about 25% of incoming students are on scholarship.

Try again

No, the curve posted in the UM thread is wrong. I listed the name of the adcom who gave me the stats. UM is on a 2.75/B- curve, and last year the median was a 2.82. This is the first year they've had a 3.2 GPA scholarship stipulation (Dean White is new to UM), it used to be a 3.0.

[Lomax]

The linguistic skill displayed on this thread are atrocious. Please, for the love of grammar, have some dignity and use correct verb-conjugations.

The linguistic skill displayed in this post is atrocious. Please, for the love of punctuation, have some dignity and refrain from unnecessarily using the hyphen.

[msv5010]

Baboon, I don't know if you missed it but I posted the link for you to show that 3.2 was, in fact, top 1/3 of the class in spring 2009. I don't know how you can argue with that if you followed the link.

Edit: just read the above post about a change in the curve. If that applies to the rankings I linked then I might be wrong after all. Can someone clear this up?

[baboon309]

Second, according to Ms Therese Lampert, the Director of Student Recruiting, last year 89% of students on scholarship kept them. and with the new increased GPA stipulation, about 80% would. A GPA of 3.2 is the top 1/3 of the class, and about 25% of incoming students are on scholarship.

Try again

No, the curve posted in the UM thread is wrong. I listed the name of the adcom who gave me the stats. UM is on a 2.75/B- curve, and last year the median was a 2.82. This is the first year they've had a 3.2 GPA stipulation (Dean White is new to UM), it used to be a 3.0.

Are you talking about 2009? Nah Median wasnt 2.82 last yr .

[msv5010]

After hours of studying for advanced accounting, I'm burnt out and feel like jumbled all the information together. Baboon, if the spring 2009 rankings don't represent this year and future years (because you seem pretty adamant that top33% isn't correct), then what am I missing? I really hope I'm missing something so I can keep dreaming of South Beach.

[Sky'stheLimit]

Im not sure the adcom told me it was 2.82, and I thought she meant last year and not last semester. This could be for the entire LS, not just the 1L class.

Either way, UM is on a B- curve.

msv5010: I saw your link, and again my guess is that 2.82 must be for the entire LS, not just the 1L class.

[Sky'stheLimit]

Baboon, I don't know if you missed it but I posted the link for you to show that 3.2 was, in fact, top 1/3 of the class in spring 2009. I don't know how you can argue with that if you followed the link.

Edit: just read the above post about a change in the curve. If that applies to the rankings I linked then I might be wrong after all. Can someone clear this up?

Curve has not changed, the scholarship GPA requirement has increased.

[Lomax]

I really hope I'm missing something so I can keep dreaming of South Beach.

If you find yourself unable to dream of South Beach, why not dream of Gainesville's beautiful sinkhole (Devil's Millhopper) instead?

[msv5010]

Ahh I'd love to add Gainesville to my list of schools I can dream about, but I haven't gotten in and I'm starting to think I'm waitlist bound. Pretty disappointing since UF has always been really high on my list. Sadly, that picture is now officially my first impression of Gainesville.


Sky'sTheLimit - I guess I assumed that, if they were going to raise the GPA stipulation that dramatically, they would change the curve to make the relationship similar to previous years. Wishful thinking on my part. I'll be the first to admit I don't really know what the situation is and I simply pulled that link off another thread, but I'm definitely looking forward to visiting Miami and clearing this up face to face.

[Sky'stheLimit]

After hours of studying for advanced accounting, I'm burnt out and feel like jumbled all the information together. Baboon, if the spring 2009 rankings don't represent this year and future years (because you seem pretty adamant that top33% isn't correct), then what am I missing? I really hope I'm missing something so I can keep dreaming of South Beach.

You're right! 3.2 is top 1/3, but our medians are off. I think this is b/c the 2.82 # is for the entire school, not just the 1L class (your data is just the 1L class).

If you're seriously considering UM, you should call like I did man. Ms. Lambert was awesome, and any questions she couldnt answer, she got right back to me with one ASAP.