Class of 2013 Employment Data Forum

[Cobretti]

What did their p-values look like?

42

you mean .42 R-squared? p-value above .1 is garbage... if they even published that I'd be shocked.

Or was this just a reminder to not forget our towels?

I thought he meant .42 p-value...

that would be unconscionable to publish

[jenesaislaw]

Woh woh woh. See "42" here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_fr ... the_Galaxy

I have no idea what the actual answer to the question is.

[papercut]

Woh woh woh. See "42" here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_fr ... the_Galaxy

I have no idea what the actual answer to the question is.

Lol trolled by the LST guy...

[BentleyLittle]

Lol UCI. The haters are going to be all over that 23% unemployed figure. (and the apologists will start spinning their anecdata about all the people getting jobs eleven months after graduation, naturally outside the jurisdiction of ABA).

I don't see great things happening there...

What are your thoughts on UCI? Interested in your perspective.

[jenesaislaw]

I'm a troll in my past and present life.

[Cobretti]

Woh woh woh. See "42" here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_fr ... the_Galaxy

I have no idea what the actual answer to the question is.

I see you trolling

[20141023]

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[BVest]

"Don't Panic" is (or was) a part of UC Davis' WL letter. They, however, fail to prepare WLers properly by advising of the massive utility and practical value of a towel in all situations.

[BigZuck]

You're way too concerned about people making obvious jokes

Lol Michigan and Georgetown though. Seriously.

Michigan is 3 points behind Duke now? You really think there can't possibly be 3% more people at Michigan who self-select into public interest than there are at Duke? That's what you're saying.

I can only speak for one school personally, but I do know people from both of those schools and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the number wasn't much higher than 3 percentage points. Point is, we can't possibly know. But NYU/Michigan/Georgetown are more PI-focused, so we should take this into account. Beyond that, who knows? That only leaves us with a pretty broad picture of how schools are doing. That's all these numbers are good for.

Don't worry about BigZuck. From my short time on TLS, it's obvious he has an ax to grind with Michigan. Closet OSU undergrad maybe? Who knows.

Jilted former applicant IMO

I think Dean Z's shtick is obnoxious and Michigan fanboys/apologists are even more so but you're right, Michigan is too easy of a target. I'll try to tone it down.

The T12/weird tier stuff was mocking the whole "the T14 floor is falling!" crowd who says dumb crap like "Georgetown better watch out, Vandy is breathing down its neck!" The T14 is the T14, its not going to change. And if it did it wouldn't really matter, those schools all are basically what we thought they were. I think my sarcasm was pretty obvious but I don't want any more Georgetown/Michigan apologists to have their butts hurt any more so there you go.

[lecsa]

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[AT9]

Vandy is in the South and has little to no name recognition outside of it.

Perhaps with the general public, but they place a lot of graduates all over the country. Plus, as the South/Texas continue to grow in population and importance, the opportunities for Vandy and UT grads will only increase (and so will their relative employment stats and reputations). I am betting that Vandy or UT (or both) will overtake some school in the T14, perhaps Georgetown or Michigan. Probably not in the next couple years, but within thee next couple decades.

[fringles]

I think Dean Z's shtick is obnoxious and Michigan fanboys/apologists are even more so but you're right, Michigan is too easy of a target. I'll try to tone it down.

The T12/weird tier stuff was mocking the whole "the T14 floor is falling!" crowd who says dumb crap like "Georgetown better watch out, Vandy is breathing down its neck!" The T14 is the T14, its not going to change. And if it did it wouldn't really matter, those schools all are basically what we thought they were. I think my sarcasm was pretty obvious but I don't want any more Georgetown/Michigan apologists to have their butts hurt any more so there you go.

You say you agree with me but continue to imply that Michigan and Georgetown continue to have a employment problem relative to their peers, that they have something to apologize about and that they probably deserve to have their butts hurt or whatever you say. Georgetown may, but Michigan almost certainly doesn't. Definitely not this year.

I know it seems like I'm taking this too seriously - and, honestly, as a non-Michigan, non-Georgetown T14 student I'm not sure why I care. But this sort of T12 tier stuff gets thrown around, sarcastically or not, and people think it's actually true. I did as a 0L.

Take, for example, this 0L who has no idea what he's talking about.

I am betting that Vandy or UT (or both) will overtake some school in the T14, perhaps Georgetown or Michigan. Probably not in the next couple years, but within thee next couple decades.

This bullshit really needs to stop. This person is going to turn down Michigan to go to Vandy at equal cost or something. TLS is an awesome source of information, but it can go too far sometimes and it's not easy to tell where it does. We're studying to be attorneys, folks. Let's make sure the information is presented fairly and let's not get carried away with numbers analysis when we know full well that it's not a completely representative picture of the prospects coming out of these schools. Let's think about the 0Ls and lurkers here and try to be fair.

[rickgrimes69]

You're way too concerned about people making obvious jokes

Lol Michigan and Georgetown though. Seriously.

Michigan is 3 points behind Duke now? You really think there can't possibly be 3% more people at Michigan who self-select into public interest than there are at Duke? That's what you're saying.

I can only speak for one school personally, but I do know people from both of those schools and frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the number wasn't much higher than 3 percentage points. Point is, we can't possibly know. But NYU/Michigan/Georgetown are more PI-focused, so we should take this into account. Beyond that, who knows? That only leaves us with a pretty broad picture of how schools are doing. That's all these numbers are good for.

Don't worry about BigZuck. From my short time on TLS, it's obvious he has an ax to grind with Michigan. Closet OSU undergrad maybe? Who knows.

Jilted former applicant IMO

I think Dean Z's shtick is obnoxious and Michigan fanboys/apologists are even more so but you're right, Michigan is too easy of a target. I'll try to tone it down.

Michigan is a deserving target. They've gone around perpetuating "T10" nonsense for years now despite lacking the employment figures to back it up. Their "self-selection into PI" line is tired and frankly a little hard to believe ITE for a school not named HYS or NYU, particularly given Michigan's stinginess with scholarships and notorious refusal to negotiate.

[jk148706]

Lol itt as Michigan apologists and former applicants who were dinged/WLd battle it out.

[fringles]

Michigan is a deserving target. They've gone around perpetuating "T10" nonsense for years now despite lacking the employment figures to back it up. Their "self-selection into PI" line is tired and frankly a little hard to believe ITE for a school not named HYS or NYU, particularly given Michigan's stinginess with scholarships and notorious refusal to negotiate.

You think Michigan doesn't have 3% more people self-selecting into PI than Duke does? That's what you're saying. It's three percentage points! Three. You think those PI-focused kids don't love Dean Z's we-love-everyone here schtick? You bet they do. These people tend to go to Michigan and not choose other schools. Additionally, I'd bet that they have pretty good PI career services too. My school doesn't, and we're always nudged to do firm work and bid NYC. It may be tired, but it shouldn't be hard to believe. I really don't see any other way to look at it.

I'll digress. I can't control the assumptions people operate under. If you guys want to keep on saying Penn>NYU, T12, etc. Go right ahead. Just a word of caution for 0Ls, some of TLS is garbage and this is a good example. Talk to actual students who you can trust before you make your decision.

[Serett]

Berkeley's too busy doing its own thing to release employment statistics. I know some people who have employment statistics for Yale, Harvard, and Stanford that still didn't get them for Boalt.

[Big Dog]

What are your thoughts on UCI?

if you can attend for free, it may be a decent deal, if the alternative is UCLA/USC at near sticker.

But you will have to gun to be one of Dean Chem's chosen calls for a clerkship, or Big Law.

Perhaps with the general public, but they place a lot of graduates all over the country. Plus, as the South/Texas continue to grow in population and importance, the opportunities for Vandy and UT grads will only increase (and so will their relative employment stats and reputations). I am betting that Vandy or UT (or both) will overtake some school in the T14, perhaps Georgetown or Michigan. Probably not in the next couple years, but within thee next couple decades.

UT is probably the only school that has the money to spend what it will take to achieve stardom. Vandy probably could raise the money if they so chose, but they just do everything bigger in Texas, I don't get that Vandy has the will to spend the cash that it would take (poaching faculty stars, massive investment in Career services to place more clerkships nationally, bigger scholarships to raise scores....)

[Rahviveh]

Lol @ people still defending that turd Dean Z.

Campos exposed her a couple years ago:

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... eople.html

[DrStudMuffin]

Lol @ people still defending that turd Dean Z.

Campos exposed her a couple years ago:

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... eople.html

Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone was in this case.

[lecsa]

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[jk148706]

Lol @ people still defending that turd Dean Z.

Campos exposed her a couple years ago:

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... eople.html

Unless I missed it, I don't think anyone was in this case.

who was defending dean z??

[jk148706]

Vandy is in the South and has little to no name recognition outside of it.

Perhaps with the general public, but they place a lot of graduates all over the country. Plus, as the South/Texas continue to grow in population and importance, the opportunities for Vandy and UT grads will only increase (and so will their relative employment stats and reputations). I am betting that Vandy or UT (or both) will overtake some school in the T14, perhaps Georgetown or Michigan. Probably not in the next couple years, but within thee next couple decades.

[justonemoregame]

How can UCI put as many students in A-3 clerkships as USC, despite having less than half the class size and only operating for a few years? People keep saying Chemerinsky. What exactly does he do?

[lecsa]

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[Jchance]

How can UCI put as many students in A-3 clerkships as USC, despite having less than half the class size and only operating for a few years? People keep saying Chemerinsky. What exactly does he do?

He sits in his office and makes calls to judges he know (or not know) to get his students interviews. Sometimes an interview is all it takes.
Pretty much all judges know him or know of him, he's the #3 most cited scholar in Constitutional Law.