Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships) Forum

[Informative]

Yeah, I think Boston and DC are two major markets that are bouncing back quickly. I don't think DC fell very hard given the increase in regulatory work.

[Casey2889]

SLS ftw

[Informative]

Anyone else surprised that IU-B didn't place in the top 50 of this last? Of course, this isn't the end all be all, but for a fairly predictive data set you'd expect to see the 23rd (or whatever) ranked school on the list.

Location matters more than rankings past T17 or so.

Location matters more than rankings past 14. Good luck getting a job in NYC from UT or USC.

[ndirish2010]

UIUC, WUSTL and ND will have atrocious data for class of 2011.

+1

RIP, T25 midwest Cs/O 2011.

What's the consensus about Chicago, has it hit rock-bottom or is it going to start recovering slowly?

[Informative]

UIUC, WUSTL and ND will have atrocious data for class of 2011.

+1

RIP, T25 midwest Cs/O 2011.

What's the consensus about Chicago, has it hit rock-bottom or is it going to start recovering slowly?

UIUC, WUSTL and ND always had pretty atrocious data. Without the number of big firms on the east coast in the major markets, the midwest schools have a single major market (Chicago) with a significant number of grads from a significant number of schools trying to get a job, and a few minor markets with relatively no top law firms (Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Detroit, St. Louis). Realistically, ND/WUSTL/UIUC et al. will never be able to compete with BC/BU/GW/UCLA/USC in terms of law firm placement.

[ndirish2010]

UIUC, WUSTL and ND will have atrocious data for class of 2011.

+1

RIP, T25 midwest Cs/O 2011.

What's the consensus about Chicago, has it hit rock-bottom or is it going to start recovering slowly?

UIUC, WUSTL and ND always had pretty atrocious data. Without the number of big firms on the east coast in the major markets, the midwest schools have a single major market (Chicago) with a significant number of grads from a significant number of schools trying to get a job, and a few minor markets with relatively no top law firms (Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Detroit, St. Louis). Realistically, ND/WUSTL/UIUC et al. will never be able to compete with BC/BU/GW/UCLA/USC in terms of law firm placement.

You can't really say 'never.' The stats bear out that those schools were, for 2007 OCI, pretty close to one another (other than the T18s).

BC/BU- 34.6%
GW- 31.6%
ND- 28.8.%
WUSTL- 27.5%
UIUC- 26.7%

Those differences aren't that horrible...now it's very possible that when the stats come out for 2008 OCI that the midwestern T25s will drop quite a bit, but I just take issue with the 'never' comment.

[Informative]

5% difference in a class of 200 is a pretty big difference. 5% difference in a class of 300 is a very big difference. Math ftw.

[Sandro]

arent the new NLJ250 numbers due out in a week or so ?

[BlueDiamond]

arent the new NLJ250 numbers due out in a week or so ?

not sure when they come out.. but im super nervous/excited to see them

[ndirish2010]

5% difference in a class of 200 is a pretty big difference. 5% difference in a class of 300 is a very big difference. Math ftw.

Very true. I guess this is a positive of ND having one of the smallest classes around (this year's 1L class is about 175).

[Sandro]

arent the new NLJ250 numbers due out in a week or so ?

not sure when they come out.. but im super nervous/excited to see them

I remember seeing Feb 15 or 22 listed as the date for last years. It would be nice to see this data before seat deposits.

[ndirish2010]

The most interesting numbers changes will probably be in the 15-25 range. What sort of numbers do people think those schools will drop down to for the 2008 OCI?

[soullesswonder]

The most interesting numbers changes will probably be in the 15-25 range. What sort of numbers do people think those schools will drop down to for the 2008 OCI?

Complete WAG on my part, based on nothing but the most recent Vandy numbers...I think the bottom of the T25 will come in at between 10 and 12 percent for NLJ 250

[Informative]

BC/BU/GULC/GW will do very well considering their primary markets did well respective of other markets. DC jobs actually increased given regulatory work, though a lot of those jobs were in public sector to which GW students go disproportionately.

Fordham may have been hurt by New York's pessimistic hiring.

The real drop will probably be in California, given the number of firms that wound down and the shrinking class sizes at the NLJ250.

[soullesswonder]

BC/BU/GULC/GW will do very well considering their primary markets did well respective of other markets. DC jobs actually increased given regulatory work, though a lot of those jobs were in public sector to which GW students go disproportionately.

Fordham may have been hurt by New York's pessimistic hiring.

The real drop will probably be in California, given the number of firms that wound down and the shrinking class sizes at the NLJ250.

I'm from Missouri when it comes to any alleged benefit to GULC/GW from the DC market. Everything I've heard indicates that the increased competition from T14 grads who saw other markets collapse more than offset any resilience in the DC hiring market.

[Informative]

BC/BU/GULC/GW will do very well considering their primary markets did well respective of other markets. DC jobs actually increased given regulatory work, though a lot of those jobs were in public sector to which GW students go disproportionately.

Fordham may have been hurt by New York's pessimistic hiring.

The real drop will probably be in California, given the number of firms that wound down and the shrinking class sizes at the NLJ250.

I'm from Missouri when it comes to any alleged benefit to GULC/GW from the DC market. Everything I've heard indicates that the increased competition from T14 grads who saw other markets collapse more than offset any resilience in the DC hiring market.

Other than the fact that you are from Missouri (nice!) and can't put together a grammatically correct sentence, you are wrong regarding DC. DC has always had high competition. However, firm classes have remained fairly consistent as far as numbers and schools go. Our DC office, for example, has a very typical range of schools accounted for in our last two summer classes. Increased competition from T14 grads either didn't exist (T14 interest in DC probably remained constant) or it didn't affect the outcome of the classes.

[observationalist]

arent the new NLJ250 numbers due out in a week or so ?

not sure when they come out.. but im super nervous/excited to see them

I remember seeing Feb 15 or 22 listed as the date for last years. It would be nice to see this data before seat deposits.

Keep in mind, every ABA approved law school will be reporting Class of 2010 data to NALP by Feb 22. While it's certainly easier to wait for the NLJ to do their employer-side analysis and put together the NLJ250 chart, you shouldn't hesitate to contact schools directly and ask them for full employer lists for the Class of 2010. Very few law schools are going to have a NLJ250 showing of greater than 1/3 of the class this year, so there's a legitimate need to know what the other 2/3s found for employment. The easiest way for a school to get that information out to you is to comply with the LST Standard; the second easiest way is for a school to respond to requests directly from applicants, who can then share the information on TLS or send it to LST so that we can make it publicly available to TLS and non-TLS applicants alike.

If anyone's interested in actually doing this for their list of schools, PM me and I can send some more advice. We're aiming to throw up a post next week with suggestions on how to approach schools and what to ask for, but for those of you who are really impatient I'm happy to help when I can. G'luck.

[Informative]

Schools can be reluctant to give this info out, especially the schools that don't place very well.

[Grizz]

Schools can be reluctant to give this info out, especially the schools that don't place very well.

That might be an indicator of whether those schools are worth it.

[Informative]

Schools can be reluctant to give this info out, especially the schools that don't place very well.

That might be an indicator of whether those schools are worth it.

Credited.

[Frankie55]

So what are the chances this could make some of us squirm more about T14, as well? Or are we to understand everything in the context of things having rebounded somewhat?

[09042014]

So what are the chances this could make some of us squirm more about T14, as well? Or are we to understand everything in the context of things having rebounded somewhat?

Things didn't rebound very significantly. Maybe next year but who knows. Law firms are horribly managed.

[TJISMYHERO]

.

[fedexmalcom]

In a month I think we could see the Law School Report of 2010, the most informative ranking. Since I am considering Notre Dame, I am eager to learn how horrible the placemet was and how honest the school would face its situation. I would like to help in obtaining some unpublic information from law schools.

[RPK34]

I'm curious as to how accurate people think this will be for 0Ls and 1Ls trying to gauge what their OCI's will be like this summer and next summer? If this report will be for the class of 2010, they did OCI in 2008 (I believe).

I feel like the numbers won't be as bad as they'll be for the next couple of classes doing OCI, but they will be probably be pretty close as to what to expect.