Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School: #TrustTheProcess Forum

[itsmako]

lol @ the small firm numbers jumping because law students are suddenly copping boutique gigs that pay well enough to pay back student loans

All I did was ask for ideas as to why. No need to be a dick about it.

[Nebby]

lol @ the small firm numbers jumping because law students are suddenly copping boutique gigs that pay well enough to pay back student loans

All I did was ask for ideas as to why. No need to be a dick about it.

Welcome to TLS

[orangered]

lol @ the small firm numbers jumping because law students are suddenly copping boutique gigs that pay well enough to pay back student loans

YSHCCNVBDMN

Perhaps you should resort back to the placement stats and recompile your list.

LOL@the rigged "placement" stats. Yeah, let's count aspie Penn/Cornell grads who go to V80 NYC firms before getting forced out after 18 months. Just lol.

This point is criminally underrated. The majority of Penn/Cornell grads will be chewed up and spit out by NYC biglaw within 2-3 years, having sacrificed what little they had left of their youth and sanity. And that's supposed to be a good outcome? Something new lawyers are supposed to aspire to?

Likewise, just lol at the idea that Berkeley has somehow failed by placing more students into smaller firms where they have a decent quality of life and a reasonable shot at making partner.

Honestly, the concept of T11 (YSHCCNVBDMN) makes a lot of sense. I expect we'll hear more about it in the coming months as the repercussions of these stats play out.

[GreenJay]

Kansas University had 13.3% BL+FC.

Only a few years until they catch GeorgeTTTown too.

It's called the University of Kansas TYVM

Yeah sorry I know that (I'm from Kansas). I was going to type KU but then figured no one would know what that is.

[Serett]

Kansas University had 13.3% BL+FC.

Only a few years until they catch GeorgeTTTown too.

It's called the University of Kansas TYVM

Yeah sorry I know that (I'm from Kansas). I was going to type KU but then figured no one would know what that is.

Of course we know what Kentucky University is.

[Nebby]

Kansas University had 13.3% BL+FC.

Only a few years until they catch GeorgeTTTown too.

It's called the University of Kansas TYVM

Yeah sorry I know that (I'm from Kansas). I was going to type KU but then figured no one would know what that is.

Of course we know what Kentucky University is.

I will ruin you.

GreenJay, I'm also a Jayhawk (undergrad)

[Tiago Splitter]

lol @ the small firm numbers jumping because law students are suddenly copping boutique gigs that pay well enough to pay back student loans

YSHCCNVBDMN

Perhaps you should resort back to the placement stats and recompile your list.

LOL@the rigged "placement" stats. Yeah, let's count aspie Penn/Cornell grads who go to V80 NYC firms before getting forced out after 18 months. Just lol.

This point is criminally underrated. The majority of Penn/Cornell grads will be chewed up and spit out by NYC biglaw within 2-3 years, having sacrificed what little they had left of their youth and sanity. And that's supposed to be a good outcome? Something new lawyers are supposed to aspire to?

Likewise, just lol at the idea that Berkeley has somehow failed by placing more students into smaller firms where they have a decent quality of life and a reasonable shot at making partner.

Honestly, the concept of T11 (YSHCCNVBDMN) makes a lot of sense. I expect we'll hear more about it in the coming months as the repercussions of these stats play out.

I can't tell what part of this post is trolling and what is meta-trolling. The quality of life/chance of making partner at small firms is some good stuff either way. Well done.

[Glacial]

It seems "T-14" is dead. Long live "3-4-6" (HYS-CCNP-MVBDCN)!

[orangered]

lol @ the small firm numbers jumping because law students are suddenly copping boutique gigs that pay well enough to pay back student loans

YSHCCNVBDMN

Perhaps you should resort back to the placement stats and recompile your list.

LOL@the rigged "placement" stats. Yeah, let's count aspie Penn/Cornell grads who go to V80 NYC firms before getting forced out after 18 months. Just lol.

This point is criminally underrated. The majority of Penn/Cornell grads will be chewed up and spit out by NYC biglaw within 2-3 years, having sacrificed what little they had left of their youth and sanity. And that's supposed to be a good outcome? Something new lawyers are supposed to aspire to?

Likewise, just lol at the idea that Berkeley has somehow failed by placing more students into smaller firms where they have a decent quality of life and a reasonable shot at making partner.

Honestly, the concept of T11 (YSHCCNVBDMN) makes a lot of sense. I expect we'll hear more about it in the coming months as the repercussions of these stats play out.

I can't tell what part of this post is trolling and what is meta-trolling. The quality of life/chance of making partner at small firms is some good stuff either way. Well done.

Thanks man, but I didn't mean to troll. I just wanted to make the point that Penn and Cornell have been consistently been overvalued on these forums because of their BL%. I think people are finally realizing that working in BigLaw is not the end-all be-all of the legal profession (see, e.g., the 20+ page NYC corp associate thread). Penn and Cornell are great schools, but with those stats I just wouldn't put them in my T11.

[Tiago Splitter]

God damn now I'm so confused.

[Biglaw1990]

lol @ the small firm numbers jumping because law students are suddenly copping boutique gigs that pay well enough to pay back student loans

YSHCCNVBDMN

Perhaps you should resort back to the placement stats and recompile your list.

LOL@the rigged "placement" stats. Yeah, let's count aspie Penn/Cornell grads who go to V80 NYC firms before getting forced out after 18 months. Just lol.

This point is criminally underrated. The majority of Penn/Cornell grads will be chewed up and spit out by NYC biglaw within 2-3 years, having sacrificed what little they had left of their youth and sanity. And that's supposed to be a good outcome? Something new lawyers are supposed to aspire to?

Likewise, just lol at the idea that Berkeley has somehow failed by placing more students into smaller firms where they have a decent quality of life and a reasonable shot at making partner.

Honestly, the concept of T11 (YSHCCNVBDMN) makes a lot of sense. I expect we'll hear more about it in the coming months as the repercussions of these stats play out.

I can't tell what part of this post is trolling and what is meta-trolling. The quality of life/chance of making partner at small firms is some good stuff either way. Well done.

Thanks man, but I didn't mean to troll. I just wanted to make the point that Penn and Cornell have been consistently been overvalued on these forums because of their BL%. I think people are finally realizing that working in BigLaw is not the end-all be-all of the legal profession (see, e.g., the 20+ page NYC corp associate thread). Penn and Cornell are great schools, but with those stats I just wouldn't put them in my T11.

If you're not trolling, please explain what about their stats (specifically Penn) makes you not want to put them in your T11. I'm curious. I don't see how you can possibly make that argument.

[somethingElse]

S/He's definitely trolling, just trying to be more sly about it. YOU SLY DOG.

[jbagelboy]

God damn now I'm so confused.

Between the pro penn biglaw1990 trolling, the anti-mich zuck trolling, the anti-penn/cornell rpupkin trolling, and the general pro-harvard and anti-boalt trolling, this thread is entirely useless with a key or index of some kind.

[Biglaw1990]

.

[BigZuck]

God damn now I'm so confused.

Between the pro penn biglaw1990 trolling, the anti-mich zuck trolling, the anti-penn/cornell rpupkin trolling, and the general pro-harvard and anti-boalt trolling, this thread is entirely useless with a key or index of some kind.

Guilty as charged, though I try to lack any semblance of subtlety in my trolling

[orangered]

God damn now I'm so confused.

Between the pro penn biglaw1990 trolling, the anti-mich zuck trolling, the anti-penn/cornell rpupkin trolling, and the general pro-harvard and anti-boalt trolling, this thread is entirely useless with a key or index of some kind.

There's a fine line between trolling and making legitimate observations about legal education. The concept of the T13 started as a troll, but today it's virtually accepted that Georgetown is not properly grouped with the rest of the T14. Similarly, although rpupkin probably introduced the concept of T11 as a joke, there's definitely a broader trend underlying the observation. I don't have time to make a detailed statistical argument right now, but I think the new ABA 509 disclosures from P/C bear this out.

[tyrant_flycatcher]

God damn now I'm so confused.

Between the pro penn biglaw1990 trolling, the anti-mich zuck trolling, the anti-penn/cornell rpupkin trolling, and the general pro-harvard and anti-boalt trolling, this thread is entirely useless with a key or index of some kind.

There's a fine line between trolling and making legitimate observations about legal education. The concept of the T13 started as a troll, but today it's virtually accepted that Georgetown is not properly grouped with the rest of the T14. Similarly, although rpupkin probably introduced the concept of T11 as a joke, there's definitely a broader trend underlying the observation. I don't have time to make a detailed statistical argument right now, but I think the new ABA 509 disclosures from P/C bear this out.

T11? LOL. What you dolts don't realize is that the Cornell administration had the Class of 2015 tank so that we could bring in some top tier 0Ls for the Class of 2019. It's called "The Process." While UVA, UPenn, and NYU are content to hover around the middle of the T13 year in and year out, Cornell is two cycles away from breaking into the T6 and FINALLY ousting Codumbia.

[star fox]

#trusttheprocess

[Glasseyes]

I'm as let down as anyone by the GULC "decline," but I think we're undervaluing the worth of DC biglaw jobs over their soulgrinding NYC counterparts. If we value every DC biglaw job as roughly 1.666x the "quality" (in lessened degree of daily misery) and about 1.5x the dollar value (160k in DC goes further) compared to the equivalent position in NYC, GULC rises like a bloated champion to vanquish Cornell and compete more evenly with Penn. Duke and UVA also crush their competition and the whole T14 landscape is radically altered. Obviously this is not an exact science, but there's a deeper logic beneath the bare numbers.

[star fox]

I'm as let down as anyone by the GULC "decline," but I think we're undervaluing the worth of DC biglaw jobs over their soulgrinding NYC counterparts. If we value every DC biglaw job as roughly 1.666x the "quality" (in lessened degree of daily misery) and about 1.5x the dollar value (160k in DC goes further) compared to the equivalent position in NYC, GULC rises like a bloated champion to vanquish Cornell and compete more evenly with Penn. Duke and UVA also crush their competition and the whole T14 landscape is radically altered. Obviously this is not an exact science, but there's a deeper logic beneath the bare numbers.

This is some high quality trolling. Well done man.

[usernotfound]

[proteinshake]

I'm as let down as anyone by the GULC "decline," but I think we're undervaluing the worth of DC biglaw jobs over their soulgrinding NYC counterparts. If we value every DC biglaw job as roughly 1.666x the "quality" (in lessened degree of daily misery) and about 1.5x the dollar value (160k in DC goes further) compared to the equivalent position in NYC, GULC rises like a bloated champion to vanquish Cornell and compete more evenly with Penn. Duke and UVA also crush their competition and the whole T14 landscape is radically altered. Obviously this is not an exact science, but there's a deeper logic beneath the bare numbers.

This is some high quality trolling. Well done man.

[Glasseyes]

Well, I think there's real value—particularly for 0Ls—in breaking the T14 down with a "misery index" that reflects quality as well as raw quantity of jobs. If we operate on the base assumption that the biglaw outcomes can be roughly ranked by aggregating happiness + prestige, the market order looks something like this: DC>>West Coast>>Chi>>Texas>>Secondary Markets>>>>>>NY. Thus we arrive at a new set of school tiers, + or - one school in either direction:

Yale/Stanford/Harvard
Virginia/Duke/Berk
Chi/NW/Mich/GULC
Columbia/NYU/Penn/Cornell

[Nebby]

I don't think DC biglaw is a 9 to 5. Pretty sure the work experience there is similar to NY. It's not *quite* the same but it's still biglaw hours and subject matter.

[jbagelboy]

Well, I think there's real value—particularly for 0Ls—in breaking the T14 down with a "misery index" that reflects quality as well as raw quantity of jobs. If we operate on the base assumption that the biglaw outcomes can be roughly ranked by aggregating happiness + prestige, the market order looks something like this: DC>>West Coast>>Chi>>Texas>>Secondary Markets>>>>>>NY. Thus we arrive at a new set of school tiers, + or - one school in either direction:

Yale/Stanford/Harvard
Virginia/Duke/Berk
Chi/NW/Mich/GULC
Columbia/NYU/Penn/Cornell

the vast majority of hls students and many of the yls students are going to ny
accepting your troll-logic, your metric would actually produce this:

Stanford/Chicago
Berkeley/Michigan/UVA
Penn/NW/Duke/Yale
NYU/Columbia/Harvard
Cornell/GULC