Class sizes and medians (c/o 2015) Forum

[manofjustice]

Just noticed the Penn viewbook (here -- https://www.law.upenn.edu/admissions/jd/viewbook.php -- the link was included in the fee waiver email) has 25/75 stats for the c/o 2015:

LSAT 164/171
GPA 3.56/3.94

Class size of 243 as of 8/20

Wow man, 2 point drop in the LSAT 25%.

25%ile doesn't affect USN&WR ranking.

Median LSAT scores (0.125): The combined median scores on the Law School Admission Test of all full-time and part-time entrants to the J.D. program's 2011 entering class.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... l-rankings

Shit post bro. No one said that LSAT 25ths affect USNWR ranking, but it still shows a lot about admissions this year (as in a pronounced rise in reliance on splitters).

now, now

[KevinP]

Slightly late to the discussion, and iMisto may get some shit for what he says, but I have to agree that working a shit job (I worked one year in fast food) was just as as valuable, if not more so, than my engineering WE. It taught me one of the most valuable skills in life: how to take shit from people.

It also taught me how to be grateful as hell at my current job. Engineering was no where even close to how horrid fast food was. And neither is my current job (system development).

Do you remember when they released medians?

September 1st on their blog: --LinkRemoved--

[iMisto]

Thanks, man.

[ajax]

Slightly late to the discussion, and iMisto may get some shit for what he says, but I have to agree that working a shit job (I worked one year in fast food) was just as as valuable, if not more so, than my engineering WE. It taught me one of the most valuable skills in life: how to take shit from people.

It also taught me how to be grateful as hell at my current job. Engineering was no where even close to how horrid fast food was. And neither is my current job (system development).

Do you remember when they released medians?

September 1st on their blog: --LinkRemoved--

I agree about the shit job in that it provides valuable experience, but the idea is to have the shit job pre/during undergrad than post undergrad. Post undergrad you should be utilizing your degree.

[VUSisterRayVU]

Slightly late to the discussion, and iMisto may get some shit for what he says, but I have to agree that working a shit job (I worked one year in fast food) was just as as valuable, if not more so, than my engineering WE. It taught me one of the most valuable skills in life: how to take shit from people.

It also taught me how to be grateful as hell at my current job. Engineering was no where even close to how horrid fast food was. And neither is my current job (system development).

Do you remember when they released medians?

September 1st on their blog: --LinkRemoved--

I had been jumping from crap job to crap job since I messed up last Oct.'s LSAT. Was pretty aimless and didn't know what I wanted to do. Hated work, wasn't sure what was going on in my life, etc. I took a trip to New York for a week a couple months ago and that was all the motivation I needed. Like, that combined with just hating work just made me want to put in all the effort I could. I think kids who don't work these jobs don't have a perspective to understand how to take shit from people, how much it sucks to work 60+hours for less than $10/hr, etc. If nothing else, you're motivated to not do it again.

[iMisto]

I can't stand this idea that you're not using your degree because you have a 'shit' job... Especially in this economy. An undergrad degree that isn't specialized (ie engineering, etc.) simply provides you with some valuable skills that you can tap into at most any job. Would I rather be working in a job that uses my full abilities? Sure, but I have healthcare and it allows me to study for the LSAT, put food on the table, volunteer, etc.

[stillwater]

.

[VUSisterRayVU]

I can't stand this idea that you're not using your degree because you have a 'shit' job... Especially in this economy. An undergrad degree that isn't specialized (ie engineering, etc.) simply provides you with some valuable skills that you can tap into at most any job. Would I rather be working in a job that uses my full abilities? Sure, but I have healthcare and it allows me to study for the LSAT, put food on the table, volunteer, etc.

I'm a liberal artist. My degree is useless. Any job I can get now I could have gotten without going to college. But I'm not talking about jobs that give you HC and time to study. That hardly sounds like a shit job. Go work in food service or retail or something requiring physical labor or any combination for 60+ hours a week without bennies. That's a shit job, man, and that gives you serious perspective and motivation.

[Swimp]

I agree about the shit job in that it provides valuable experience, but the idea is to have the shit job pre/during undergrad than post undergrad. Post undergrad you should be utilizing your degree.

Thank you, ajax, for visiting us from 2005.

[ajax]

I agree about the shit job in that it provides valuable experience, but the idea is to have the shit job pre/during undergrad than post undergrad. Post undergrad you should be utilizing your degree.

Thank you, ajax, for visiting us from 2005.

Because it's the economy's fault so many people gobbled up worthless undergrad degrees correct? After all, it's the economy's fault no one has a decent job, and should therefore take out a ton of debt to acquire a law degree that empowers its holder to gain employment 50% of the time. Maybe don't make the same mistake twice? Maybe don't acquire another worthless degree after the first worthless degree? What happens if you graduate law school with over 100k in debt and have no job? It's the economy's fault? Give me a break. If you have a shit job post graduation it's not the economy's fault, it's yours.

[justonemoregame]

I agree about the shit job in that it provides valuable experience, but the idea is to have the shit job pre/during undergrad than post undergrad. Post undergrad you should be utilizing your degree.

Thank you, ajax, for visiting us from 2005.

Because it's the economy's fault so many people gobbled up worthless undergrad degrees correct? After all, it's the economy's fault no one has a decent job, and should therefore take out a ton of debt to acquire a law degree that empowers its holder to gain employment 50% of the time. Maybe don't make the same mistake twice? Maybe don't acquire another worthless degree after the first worthless degree? What happens if you graduate law school with over 100k in debt and have no job? It's the economy's fault? Give me a break. If you have a shit job post graduation it's not the economy's fault, it's yours.

Not all law degrees are the same - it's kind of a mantra around here. You can't apply "50%" across the board.

[ajax]

I agree about the shit job in that it provides valuable experience, but the idea is to have the shit job pre/during undergrad than post undergrad. Post undergrad you should be utilizing your degree.

Thank you, ajax, for visiting us from 2005.

Because it's the economy's fault so many people gobbled up worthless undergrad degrees correct? After all, it's the economy's fault no one has a decent job, and should therefore take out a ton of debt to acquire a law degree that empowers its holder to gain employment 50% of the time. Maybe don't make the same mistake twice? Maybe don't acquire another worthless degree after the first worthless degree? What happens if you graduate law school with over 100k in debt and have no job? It's the economy's fault? Give me a break. If you have a shit job post graduation it's not the economy's fault, it's yours.

Not all law degrees are the same - it's kind of a mantra around here. You can't apply "50%" across the board.

Agree 100%. A law degree does pay off for many, if they make sound decisions of where to attend, and at reasonable cost. That said, I'm just tired of this "ITE" crap. It's likely going to be "ITE" for quite some time. Fed plans to keep rates low into 2015. People need to stop using "ITE" as an excuse.

[2014]

As someone with a social science degree I strongly disagree with the idea that I have even a single applicable skill from my UG experience to a real world job.

[stillwater]

My philosophy degree has given me the real world skills to be a philosopher. It's the making money part that's difficult.

[Swimp]

I agree about the shit job in that it provides valuable experience, but the idea is to have the shit job pre/during undergrad than post undergrad. Post undergrad you should be utilizing your degree.

Thank you, ajax, for visiting us from 2005.

Because it's the economy's fault so many people gobbled up worthless undergrad degrees correct? After all, it's the economy's fault no one has a decent job, and should therefore take out a ton of debt to acquire a law degree that empowers its holder to gain employment 50% of the time. Maybe don't make the same mistake twice? Maybe don't acquire another worthless degree after the first worthless degree? What happens if you graduate law school with over 100k in debt and have no job? It's the economy's fault? Give me a break. If you have a shit job post graduation it's not the economy's fault, it's yours.

You're getting way ahead of yourself. All I was pointing out is that "Post undergrad you should be utilizing your degree" is either the put-on naivete of a troll (which doesn't rile me up like it does some people around here, but doesn't deserve a reply more substantive than mine), or nonresponsive. Whoever is "at fault" for someone taking a useless degree is beside the point. We're not giving advice to prospective undergrads in this forum.

[iMisto]

I can't stand this idea that you're not using your degree because you have a 'shit' job... Especially in this economy. An undergrad degree that isn't specialized (ie engineering, etc.) simply provides you with some valuable skills that you can tap into at most any job. Would I rather be working in a job that uses my full abilities? Sure, but I have healthcare and it allows me to study for the LSAT, put food on the table, volunteer, etc.

I'm a liberal artist. My degree is useless. Any job I can get now I could have gotten without going to college. But I'm not talking about jobs that give you HC and time to study. That hardly sounds like a shit job. Go work in food service or retail or something requiring physical labor or any combination for 60+ hours a week without bennies. That's a shit job, man, and that gives you serious perspective and motivation.

I make lattes. I have a shit job.

This notion of the 'useless' lib. arts degree confounds me. It's no more useless than a BA in biniz.

Take the skills you've acquired over the course of your undergrad and DO something. Although some thought I was gloating, I made a brief list of the experiences I've had while doing 'shit' work - and a lot of that comes as a result of my education (BIS: gender studies/poli sci, and BFA: painting).

Regardless, I was just defending barista work because somebody referred to it as not having 'real' WE. My point was that a person has the ability to shape the experience they have doing any given job. Think: what resources do I have in this position? I have a cafe... with a regular customer base.. they have some extra $$ - AHHA! I'll run a book drive to build a library for the women's juvenile facility up north! We can network with the other coffee shops in the area, as well as our fellow students on campus.

[iMisto]

I agree about the shit job in that it provides valuable experience, but the idea is to have the shit job pre/during undergrad than post undergrad. Post undergrad you should be utilizing your degree.

Thank you, ajax, for visiting us from 2005.

Because it's the economy's fault so many people gobbled up worthless undergrad degrees correct? After all, it's the economy's fault no one has a decent job, and should therefore take out a ton of debt to acquire a law degree that empowers its holder to gain employment 50% of the time. Maybe don't make the same mistake twice? Maybe don't acquire another worthless degree after the first worthless degree? What happens if you graduate law school with over 100k in debt and have no job? It's the economy's fault? Give me a break. If you have a shit job post graduation it's not the economy's fault, it's yours.

I work with a barista finishing his PhD in biophysics at Yale... boy can't find a job. Is it because his degree is worthless?

[stillwater]

Isn't this thread about medians and class sizes?

[iMisto]

Isn't this thread about medians and class sizes?

Yes.

[ajax]

Isn't this thread about medians and class sizes?

Yes.

Yes.

[Robespierre]

St. John's:

158 (-2)
3.44 (-.05)
270 students (-23)

[iMisto]

BU:
Class Size: 211 (-31, -12.8%)
LSAT Median: 166 (-1)
GPA Median: 3.75 (+.03)

Hmm... makes sense. How did they maintain a higher GPA than Cornell?

Please, don't say "Ithaca".

[stillwater]

BU:
Class Size: 211 (-31, -12.8%)
LSAT Median: 166 (-1)
GPA Median: 3.75 (+.03)

Hmm... makes sense. How did they maintain a higher GPA than Cornell?

Please, don't say "Ithaca".

Unlike the LSATs, there is an almost infinite amount of good GPAs out there. I think you'll see lower 25th percentile scores out of BU. They protected their medians.

[jenesaislaw]

No idea if this is known yet, but I heard from a very reliable source that Georgetown's median LSAT is down to 169.

[Robespierre]

No idea if this is known yet, but I heard from a very reliable source that Georgetown's median LSAT is down to 169.

http://www.law.georgetown.edu/news/web- ... e-back.cfm
See the bottom.