Choosing law school for non-native speaker. WCL vs NYLS Forum

[dangthinh121]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

I've never say you're wrong. My purpose is focusing on transaction instead of litigation. Thanks for your advice

Language is possibly more important in transactional than in lit. You don't need to understand every word to understand a case. In transactional people fight for weeks over one word. In addition, most transactional law happens at places that wouldn't hire the valedictorian from these schools. You need to understand that your odds of being able to work hard to repay your debt are much, much lower than casino odds and on par with the odds you will be a 20 million dollar a film movie star.

I appreciate you spend your precious time to reply my topic. I just got the acceptance offers from Sunny Buffalo as well as St John. They both offer me the scholarship in the amount of $18k and $17k. It makes my decision becoming more difficult. What is your suggestion now?

[Tls2016]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

I've never say you're wrong. My purpose is focusing on transaction instead of litigation. Thanks for your advice

Language is possibly more important in transactional than in lit. You don't need to understand every word to understand a case. In transactional people fight for weeks over one word. In addition, most transactional law happens at places that wouldn't hire the valedictorian from these schools. You need to understand that your odds of being able to work hard to repay your debt are much, much lower than casino odds and on par with the odds you will be a 20 million dollar a film movie star.

I appreciate you spend your precious time to reply my topic. I just got the acceptance offers from Sunny Buffalo as well as St John. They both offer me the scholarship in the amount of $18k and $17k. It makes my decision becoming more difficult. What is your suggestion now?

St. John is an improvement over NYLS. Don't go to Buffalo if you want to work in NYC.
Do your parents expect you to pay them back? Will they support you after graduation if you can't find a job, pay for the bar exam, etc.? If you get a job from St.John at a small firm doing real estate closings, you won't be making much money.

There is an Asian American bar association in New York, maybe you can find some contacts through them to get more advice:
http://www.aabany.org/

They had a mentor ship program last year and probably will again. You should find out about that. People who are mentors will most likely be happy to advise an 0L.

Don't be hesitant to email lawyers and ask for advice about your situation. They will not be offended.

[jrass]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

I've never say you're wrong. My purpose is focusing on transaction instead of litigation. Thanks for your advice

Language is possibly more important in transactional than in lit. You don't need to understand every word to understand a case. In transactional people fight for weeks over one word. In addition, most transactional law happens at places that wouldn't hire the valedictorian from these schools. You need to understand that your odds of being able to work hard to repay your debt are much, much lower than casino odds and on par with the odds you will be a 20 million dollar a film movie star.

I appreciate you spend your precious time to reply my topic. I just got the acceptance offers from Sunny Buffalo as well as St John. They both offer me the scholarship in the amount of $18k and $17k. It makes my decision becoming more difficult. What is your suggestion now?

those would be your best options off what you've listed, but i'd push for an accommodation. if you could get extra time on exams for being a non-native speaker or some kind of perk to lessen the burden on yourself to doing well I'd go that route more than school rank or a few thousand dollars.

[dangthinh121]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

I've never say you're wrong. My purpose is focusing on transaction instead of litigation. Thanks for your advice

Language is possibly more important in transactional than in lit. You don't need to understand every word to understand a case. In transactional people fight for weeks over one word. In addition, most transactional law happens at places that wouldn't hire the valedictorian from these schools. You need to understand that your odds of being able to work hard to repay your debt are much, much lower than casino odds and on par with the odds you will be a 20 million dollar a film movie star.

I appreciate you spend your precious time to reply my topic. I just got the acceptance offers from Sunny Buffalo as well as St John. They both offer me the scholarship in the amount of $18k and $17k. It makes my decision becoming more difficult. What is your suggestion now?

St. John is an improvement over NYLS. Don't go to Buffalo if you want to work in NYC.
Do your parents expect you to pay them back? Will they support you after graduation if you can't find a job, pay for the bar exam, etc.? If you get a job from St.John at a small firm doing real estate closings, you won't be making much money.

There is an Asian American bar association in New York, maybe you can find some contacts through them to get more advice:
http://www.aabany.org/

They had a mentor ship program last year and probably will again. You should find out about that. People who are mentors will most likely be happy to advise an 0L.

Don't be hesitant to email lawyers and ask for advice about your situation. They will not be offended.

St John clearly gives me better job prospects and has higher rank than NYLS. However, the location for NYLS is unbeatable for Manhattan job finding. Do you think the location should be more prioritized than St John in this situation? Btw, $200k is not a big deal for my dad. In the worst scenario, I still come back my country and become professor. We are even capable of opening law school in Vietnam teaching U.S Law.

[dangthinh121]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

I've never say you're wrong. My purpose is focusing on transaction instead of litigation. Thanks for your advice

Language is possibly more important in transactional than in lit. You don't need to understand every word to understand a case. In transactional people fight for weeks over one word. In addition, most transactional law happens at places that wouldn't hire the valedictorian from these schools. You need to understand that your odds of being able to work hard to repay your debt are much, much lower than casino odds and on par with the odds you will be a 20 million dollar a film movie star.

I appreciate you spend your precious time to reply my topic. I just got the acceptance offers from Sunny Buffalo as well as St John. They both offer me the scholarship in the amount of $18k and $17k. It makes my decision becoming more difficult. What is your suggestion now?

those would be your best options off what you've listed, but i'd push for an accommodation. if you could get extra time on exams for being a non-native speaker or some kind of perk to lessen the burden on yourself to doing well I'd go that route more than school rank or a few thousand dollars.

Should we consider SUNY Buffalo since it is too far away from where I want to work? My specific city is New York City instead of Buffalo. In addition, I am not NY Resident and it is obvious the tuition is not considerably cheaper than NYLS (43k vs 49k). Is it precise to attend Buffalo and then move to NYC?
Sincerely

[jrass]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

I've never say you're wrong. My purpose is focusing on transaction instead of litigation. Thanks for your advice

Language is possibly more important in transactional than in lit. You don't need to understand every word to understand a case. In transactional people fight for weeks over one word. In addition, most transactional law happens at places that wouldn't hire the valedictorian from these schools. You need to understand that your odds of being able to work hard to repay your debt are much, much lower than casino odds and on par with the odds you will be a 20 million dollar a film movie star.

I appreciate you spend your precious time to reply my topic. I just got the acceptance offers from Sunny Buffalo as well as St John. They both offer me the scholarship in the amount of $18k and $17k. It makes my decision becoming more difficult. What is your suggestion now?

those would be your best options off what you've listed, but i'd push for an accommodation. if you could get extra time on exams for being a non-native speaker or some kind of perk to lessen the burden on yourself to doing well I'd go that route more than school rank or a few thousand dollars.

Should we consider SUNY Buffalo since it is too far away from where I want to work? My specific city is New York City instead of Buffalo. In addition, I am not NY Resident and it is obvious the tuition is not considerably cheaper than NYLS (43k vs 49k). Is it precise to attend Buffalo and then move to NYC?
Sincerely

Buffalo won't get you to NYC. You'd be better off in Jersey. NYLS is really bad, and you seem not to realize how bad it is. St. John's at least gives you some chance at achieving your goals, albeit a slim one. NYLS and Buffalo do not really give you any chance in that you could be #1 out of 300, and you'd still have below a 50-50 shot at getting the sort of job you say you want. I don't think you're processing how poor of a school NYLS is, because you keep on coming back to it.

This might be offensive, and I apologize if it is but it's not my intent. Coming to America, learning the language after your developmental years and becoming a lawyer is very hard. There are tons of second generation American lawyers who are very successful in New York. You may want to do something more business related, and maybe push your children to succeed and they'll go to Harvard or something in a quarter century from now. You're considering taking monumentally poor risks when the payoff is less good than the consequences are bad.

Another option may be to be a paralegal. If you're good at it then you'll wind up making more than literally >95% of NYLS. There's six figure potential, and you don't have the loans. You also need more business and common sense kind of sense than mastery of archaic English so it would likely play more to your strengths. You'd also have no debt.

[Clearly]

Op NYLS is joked about nationwide as one of the worst law schools in existence. Its literally a joke, a substitute example of the worst of the worst.

"This is the best speaker we could get? Might as well have gone to nyls!"

If you're going to make a mistake, st John's is a much better mistake to make.

[dangthinh121]

The reality is that unless you're a foreign trained lawyer with a close working relationship with somebody with a book of business in the US you shouldn't go to law school. Law in this country is so language specific that you're incredibly disadvantaged at every step - the LSAT, law school exams, job interviews, legal work, etc. While there are people who learn English late and are unconnected who succeed these people are generally geniuses. Don't take offense, but if you were a genius you would have better options. Of course, you'll make your own decision but I promise I am right.

I've never say you're wrong. My purpose is focusing on transaction instead of litigation. Thanks for your advice

Language is possibly more important in transactional than in lit. You don't need to understand every word to understand a case. In transactional people fight for weeks over one word. In addition, most transactional law happens at places that wouldn't hire the valedictorian from these schools. You need to understand that your odds of being able to work hard to repay your debt are much, much lower than casino odds and on par with the odds you will be a 20 million dollar a film movie star.

I appreciate you spend your precious time to reply my topic. I just got the acceptance offers from Sunny Buffalo as well as St John. They both offer me the scholarship in the amount of $18k and $17k. It makes my decision becoming more difficult. What is your suggestion now?

those would be your best options off what you've listed, but i'd push for an accommodation. if you could get extra time on exams for being a non-native speaker or some kind of perk to lessen the burden on yourself to doing well I'd go that route more than school rank or a few thousand dollars.

Should we consider SUNY Buffalo since it is too far away from where I want to work? My specific city is New York City instead of Buffalo. In addition, I am not NY Resident and it is obvious the tuition is not considerably cheaper than NYLS (43k vs 49k). Is it precise to attend Buffalo and then move to NYC?
Sincerely

Buffalo won't get you to NYC. You'd be better off in Jersey. NYLS is really bad, and you seem not to realize how bad it is. St. John's at least gives you some chance at achieving your goals, albeit a slim one. NYLS and Buffalo do not really give you any chance in that you could be #1 out of 300, and you'd still have below a 50-50 shot at getting the sort of job you say you want. I don't think you're processing how poor of a school NYLS is, because you keep on coming back to it.

This might be offensive, and I apologize if it is but it's not my intent. Coming to America, learning the language after your developmental years and becoming a lawyer is very hard. There are tons of second generation American lawyers who are very successful in New York. You may want to do something more business related, and maybe push your children to succeed and they'll go to Harvard or something in a quarter century from now. You're considering taking monumentally poor risks when the payoff is less good than the consequences are bad.

Another option may be to be a paralegal. If you're good at it then you'll wind up making more than literally >95% of NYLS. There's six figure potential, and you don't have the loans. You also need more business and common sense kind of sense than mastery of archaic English so it would likely play more to your strengths. You'd also have no debt.

I completely understand what you are trying to say . Honestly, it's still extremely difficult for non native speakers to find a job even they graduate from top tier school . The connection plays a vital role in building a success for us . It doesn't matter which school I'm going to . Partner or solo practice is only option I have

[dangthinh121]

Op NYLS is joked about nationwide as one of the worst law schools in existence. Its literally a joke, a substitute example of the worst of the worst.

"This is the best speaker we could get? Might as well have gone to nyls!"

If you're going to make a mistake, st John's is a much better mistake to make.

The job prospect of St. John is not much difference comparing to Nyls . I chose Nyls because of location that helps me to build connection . It seems to outweigh the rank and job prospect . In addition , 3 years is not a short time and I need a place where I feel comfortable to live

[Clearly]

Officially calling troll.

[jrass]

Op NYLS is joked about nationwide as one of the worst law schools in existence. Its literally a joke, a substitute example of the worst of the worst.

"This is the best speaker we could get? Might as well have gone to nyls!"

If you're going to make a mistake, st John's is a much better mistake to make.

The job prospect of St. John is not much difference comparing to Nyls . I chose Nyls because of location that helps me to build connection . It seems to outweigh the rank and job prospect . In addition , 3 years is not a short time and I need a place where I feel comfortable to live

They're not really comparable. The disservice of this forum is that outside of about 20 or 30 schools, all law schools are somewhat grouped together. While paying full price to go to St. John's is a bad decision, probably somewhere between 10 and 15% of its graduates are better off because they went to law school. At NYLS that number is between 0 and 1%. While both would be poor decisions, the poorer decision is to say that because they're both bad, it doesn't matter which one I pick.

You're right that there's a certain amount of discrimination against non-native speakers in every field, but the reality is that law is among the most language intensive professions. Everything you do revolves around research, writing and speaking. Unless you're bringing in clients, your entire job is going to be to do the reading and writing needed to allow your boss to do their job. I don't know if every profession values language quite as much.

[Clearly]

Have you ever lived in New York?

[Tls2016]

Officially calling troll.

I feel this too as OP isn't listening. Though most 0Ls don't listen, so maybe not. Maybe OP just wants to live in the city.

Not wasting any more time on this.

[dangthinh121]

So what is my choice right now ? Should I go to Washington collge of law ( American unjversity ) and then move to New York city ? What if I can get into Cardozo law school but have to pay full sticker ?

[BigZuck]

Officially calling troll.

I feel this too as OP isn't listening. Though most 0Ls don't listen, so maybe not. Maybe OP just wants to live in the city.

Not wasting any more time on this.

The intense focus on American and NYLS was kind of a dead giveaway, and adding the ESL part was the icing on the troll cake. But as I said, the insta-"totes not a troll, swearsies!" really cemented it

[BigZuck]

So what is my choice right now ? Should I go to Washington collge of law ( American unjversity ) and then move to New York city ? What if I can get into Cardozo law school but have to pay full sticker ?

You will not become a practicing attorney if you attend any of these schools so just go to whichever you prefer

[jrass]

Officially calling troll.

I feel this too as OP isn't listening. Though most 0Ls don't listen, so maybe not. Maybe OP just wants to live in the city.

Not wasting any more time on this.

The intense focus on American and NYLS was kind of a dead giveaway, and adding the ESL part was the icing on the troll cake. But as I said, the insta-"totes not a troll, swearsies!" really cemented it

If you dial 911 and say that Sean Connery is trying to kill you the police still come.

[jepper]

Troll. For me, it was the actual correct use of commas combined with the inability to use correct words that gave it away