Berk vs UVA vs Michigan Forum

[MidwestTho]

Retake. You could have a great cycle next year with a higher lsat.

Unless H comes through this time, I would definitely retake. You seem like you have a good head on your shoulders so not being able to break 160 seems more like a lack of effort on your part than lack of potential.

I'm still considering it. I really am passionate about civil rights/human rights/social justice though and at my core I know I want to do that kind of law/work to tackle those issues before I do run for office. Aside from H and maybe Col, Berkeley is very appealing on that regard, if even just how they got behind their students with the #BlackLivesMatter protests and what not.

[MidwestTho]

Bump for CoA update and advice.

The more I think about it the more I think social justice is right for me and the more I think Berkeley is for me...the culture/people, the campus, the weather, etc.

I checked out the one thread with BL+FedClerk #'s and I know UVA's numbers were higher and that UVA does better with clerkships, but a UVA student suggested I take into account that the boost seems to be more with conservative/southern judges.

I't's the same merit scholarship amount, so the difference in cost of attendance comes down to the higher CoL in Cali and living expenses/rent, etc.

Total CoA difference is basically: Berk = $25k more than UVA. Berk = $40k more than Mich. UVA = $15k more than Mich.

I know Berk will provide a boost in SF/SV but assuming I do just as well there as Mich/UVA am I locking myself out of anything/screwing myself over by picking Berk? Also not sure if this is true but I keep seeing people saying they'll be eligible for in-state tuition at Berk after 1L, is that unique or across the board?

Please advise, I have to respond by end of day. Thank you!

[OhBoyOhBortles]

I'm guessing you're a URM with that low LSAT (sorry)? You really should retake. If you're dead set on going this cycle though, I vote UVA. However, that's still a lot of debt when you could probably go for close to free with a retake.

[MidwestTho]

I'm guessing you're a URM with that low LSAT (sorry)? You really should retake. If you're dead set on going this cycle though, I vote UVA. However, that's still a lot of debt when you could probably go for close to free with a retake.

Even with the scholarship bump? I wasn't considering Berk before because it was like ~$100k+ more than UVA, but at $25k that seems more reasonable (I'm not eligible for need-aid because of parental income)—and again, in terms of campus, culture, etc. all that for me Berk > UVA by a mile. But again I know the BL+FedClerk #'s say UVA > Berk.

[OhBoyOhBortles]

I'm guessing you're a URM with that low LSAT (sorry)? You really should retake. If you're dead set on going this cycle though, I vote UVA. However, that's still a lot of debt when you could probably go for close to free with a retake.

Even with the scholarship bump? I wasn't considering Berk before because it was like $120k+ more than UVA, but at $25k that seems more reasonable. (Not eligible for need-aid because of parental income)

You've got a lot of room to improve on that lsat and you could be looking at substantially less debt at these same schools with just a few more correct questions. Your debt total is a huge deal when you have PI (read: low paying) goals. I definitely vote retake. Unless I'm missing something? Did you update your COAs rather than the scholarships? If your COAs are much lower than they were previously, I could be convinced otherwise.

[MidwestTho]

X

[L’Étranger]

I'm guessing you're a URM with that low LSAT (sorry)? You really should retake. If you're dead set on going this cycle though, I vote UVA. However, that's still a lot of debt when you could probably go for close to free with a retake.

Even with the scholarship bump? I wasn't considering Berk before because it was like $120k+ more than UVA, but at $25k that seems more reasonable (I'm not eligible for need-aid because of parental income)—and again, campus, culture, etc. all that for me Berk > UVA by a mile. But again I know the BL+FedClerk #'s say UVA > Berk.

Granted I am talking as a B alum here, but B is an all-around better school than VA and M.

[MidwestTho]

I'm guessing you're a URM with that low LSAT (sorry)? You really should retake. If you're dead set on going this cycle though, I vote UVA. However, that's still a lot of debt when you could probably go for close to free with a retake.

Even with the scholarship bump? I wasn't considering Berk before because it was like $120k+ more than UVA, but at $25k that seems more reasonable (I'm not eligible for need-aid because of parental income)—and again, campus, culture, etc. all that for me Berk > UVA by a mile. But again I know the BL+FedClerk #'s say UVA > Berk.

Granted I am talking as a B alum here, but B is an all-around better school than VA and M.

You voting for B then? (To be fair I'm like 75% of the way to talking myself into B, I just don't want to do something "stupid" or "crazy")

[krads153]

I think you should retake. These are all too expensive for your goals (PI, etc.)....just saying 200k+ for any law school is crazy.

[MidwestTho]

Thank you but retake isn't an option right now. I would have included it in the poll if it was. If people are just picking based on the lowest CoA then I think that's kind of silly since I can't imagine being able to do as well if you hate the place you're living for 3 years but know that they place better at OCI by like 4% vs. love where you're living for those 3 years.

[krads153]

What does matter is when you start working and paying off loans. You realize that even 30k is a huge amount of money.

But hey, don't let us lawyers give you advice. It seems like you want to go to B. So just go and good luck paying off loans on a PI salary.

[MidwestTho]

I've lived in like every location you listed. I didn't think location made any difference to how I performed in any of the programs....All of these places are college towns fwiw, although with slightly different vibes. What does matter is when you start working and paying off loans. You realize that even 30k is a huge amount of money.

But hey, don't let us lawyers give you advice. It seems like you want to go to B. So just go and good luck paying off loans on a PI salary.

I'm more interested in going to wherever has the best programs/best fit for me and ignoring CoA within reason. (I.e., why I wasn't considering Berkeley at $100k more than UVA)

And to be fair, for someone committed to the #BlackLivesMatter movement I do think there is a big difference between Berkeley, CA where they celebrate Malcolm X Day and Virginia where they celebrate Robert E. Lee Day...

[sneezus]

I've lived in like every location you listed. I didn't think location made any difference to how I performed in any of the programs....All of these places are college towns fwiw, although with slightly different vibes. What does matter is when you start working and paying off loans. You realize that even 30k is a huge amount of money.

But hey, don't let us lawyers give you advice. It seems like you want to go to B. So just go and good luck paying off loans on a PI salary.

I'm more interested in going to wherever has the best programs/best fit for me and ignoring CoA within reason. (I.e., why I wasn't considering Berkeley at $100k more than UVA)

And to be fair, for someone committed to the #BlackLivesMatter movement I do think there is a big difference between Berkeley, CA where they celebrate Malcolm X Day and Virginia where they celebrate Robert E. Lee Day...

OP you're focused on the difference in COA between these schools. but this is the wrong focal point because they're all too high. Especially for someone with your goals, URM status, and GPA.

honestly you're on the verge of making a bad choice for very bad reasons. i know that you said retaking isn't an option, but if you can commit to starting 3 years of law school in the coming months, then there is absolutely no reason in the world why you can't commit to retaking the LSAT. the truth: it is an option, and it's the right option.

also please don't make a choice based on your perceptions of the political climate of each school, or which holidays are celebrated in which state. your perceptions are almost definitely inaccurate and this doesn't matter enough to take on tens of thousands of dollars more of debt

[TasmanianToucan]

You seem determined to go to Berk. So go. No one here is going to tell you anything you don't know. They also will most likely not tell you what you want to hear.

If it matters, there's no way I would go $200,000+ into debt for Berk, but that's just me.

[tskela]

All these options are a waste of a 3.95 and it makes me sad

[Clyde Frog]

lol have fun with debt

[MadwomanintheAttic]

All these options are a waste of a 3.95 and it makes me sad

+1 totally agree with this, especially since you've only taken the exam once. However, having said that, you seem pretty set on Berk. So, GO! If Berk is worth 200k+ debt to you then you should go. That debt load is hard to imagine when it's an abstract number and not a concrete number you're seeing when you log-in to your student loan.gov page, but if you feel that Berk is absolutely where you want to be then go.

[MidwestTho]

Okay but what do you say to someone who's almost confident they won't score higher without accommodations? (Not rhetorical, I'm really asking)

I've never done well on standardized tests (my entrance exam for my undergrad was on the low end but I ended up graduating second in my class of like 500 something; Big Ten school) but what really got to me on the LSAT was the timing. Throughout prep there was a constant 10+ point gap between my untimed and timed scores when I'd do blind review and all that—in other words, even as things clicked, my timing never really improved. On the real thing, just like on all my PTs, I couldn't even answer all the questions in time...I guessed and blindly filled in bubbles so I didn't leave anything blank.

My brain doesn't work like that and it never has. I do have ADD but I "use" it constructively so to speak rather than trying to limit it—I've never sought accommodations on anything before, ever, so I don't know how likely they are to grant it. Clearly I'm not inept or I wouldn't have earned the GPA I did or the recommendations I did. Idk if it matters but throughout undergrad I was almost always the last person to turn in an exam, even in huge lectures, to the point that professors would always assume I did terrible...until I set the curve for the entire course. And then it always turned into "why do you always take so long if you know this stuff that well?" I still don't have an answer. Maybe I'm too careful? I don't know. It's just something I've noticed. I kicked ass and I didn't need/seek extra time on anything, but I was definitely almost always down to the wire ("okay now, wrap it up, class period ends in one more minute and there's another class coming in")

So I really don't know what to do. It's discouraging when people are like "with that GPA you should be killing the LSAT"....well it doesn't always work like that. Who wouldn't want a higher score on this? But I just don't know how to proceed given my persistent issue with timing.

[MadwomanintheAttic]

If you have been diagnosed with ADD, LSAC does offer accommodations. I'm not sure what kind, but it's certainly something you should look into. If you don't believe you can improve, take the option you believe is best for you. What's worth 200k varies significantly based on what each applicant values. I stand by what I originally stated, it sounds like you want Berk, so go. Do what you think is best for you and go where you want. After all, you only get one shot at law school.

[sneezus]

If you have been diagnosed with ADD, LSAC does offer accommodations. I'm not sure what kind, but it's certainly something you should look into. If you don't believe you can improve, take the option you believe is best for you. What's worth 200k varies significantly based on what each applicant values. I stand by what I originally stated, it sounds like you want Berk, so go. Do what you think is best for you and go where you want. After all, you only get one shot at law school.

this is bad advice, OP. in a vacuum, 200k for a top law school isn't good but it isn't the worst thing in the world. but your situation is not a vacuum. 5-10 more points are absolutely attainable and would change the trajectory of your life significantly.

figure out a way to milk some points out of the LSAT. do not do untimed tests, those are useless unless you're reviewing mistakes or whatever. do every practice test, and do it timed.

also you may want to know that many law school exams have finite time limits attached to them. just be aware of that.