Quinnipiac Law Forum

[alexrodriguez]

Miami is home.

Fine, just be honest with yourself. It's just a little suspicious that this Miami "never want to be anywhere else" homerism only comes out after you're accepted to UM.

As I said above, I don't think it's necessarily a bad choice if it's free. As in free, not just discounted. And you're genuinely fine with never living your Suits/BigLaw fantasies, and not just telling yourself you're fine with that. Just don't feed yourself platitudes to rationalize attending if it doesn't make sense.

And why DID you get out before 100% eligibility, btw? You seemed pretty moto about the Navy.

I was accepted to this career transition program. It was get out after two years. I wanted to do the third year, but they said if I wanted to stay Id have to just do 5 years. I didn't want to start graduate school at 28.

I've contacted Minnesota. I'm going to submit something in writing to change my ED to RD.

Where do you all think I need to score in December for scholarship money from Miami?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Darascal thread?

i was thinking the same thing

You don't mean...they couldn't...could they...?

No no no - they may share some approaches to law school, but they're not the same person. No restraining order against louie.

[BigZuck]

No no no - they may share some approaches to law school, but they're not the same person. No restraining order against louie.

I mean, I don't actually think they are the same person. But I think the similarities run a little deeper than that. Here are some posts from when Louie came on TLS like a wrecking ball:

3.09 gpa with a hypothetical 170+ lsat score

Is harvard possible?

About me -

3.09 gpa

no lsat score

lets say a hypothetical 173+

I'm not sure as to wheather or not I'm an under represented minority. I'm half cuban and half white.

So, what do you think?

With this information and my personal statement, what is Harvard going to tell me?

I don't want to apply just to apply. I want to apply and get in.

I need a game plan here.

I'm going to study my heart out on this lsat and I want it to amount to something.

out of the 24 people within a 3.1 and 3.2, with an LSAT between 170 and 175, 22 people got rejected and 2 got WLed, and then rejected.

then a 176-180 it'll be

totally not a troll. maybe confused? sure. I've just started this journey on getting into law school and I need some direction.

oh and by the way, my harvard law t-shirt just came in the mail today. I'm going to wear it while I prep. great idea, yea?

still not trolling

Buy a t-shirt from the school you wish to attend and hang it above your desk where you study.

I have an Adidas Harvard Law t-shirt I bought off Amazon.

My 3.09 GPA is way below Harvard's floor, but hey, YOLO.

Anything is possible ladies and gentleman.

You must believe!

And here he is, in his "Should I go to Quinnipiac?" thread excited about the fact that he got into Miami.

I do find both endearing on some level but both just seem like a trainwreck to me

Seriously Lou, you've got to focus here and be real with yourself. If you're going to do this, do it right. People here can help you, it's an amazing resource. But you have to actually internalize what they say and apply the good advice. The first step is to ignore your own thoughts/impulses because those will absolutely lead your astray. If you're not mature enough to do that, then go acquire some maturity and come back once you have it.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Sure, but those similarities are shared by LOTS of LS applicants. That's a naive-prelaw thing, not a DaRascal thing.

[alexrodriguez]

Big Zuck,

I don't see what you're getting at.

I shot for the stars and ended up getting accepted at Miami... are you trying to bash my hardwork? because thats literally all it's been for me...

yea.. I posted my dreams about wanting to go to Harvard... is there something wrong with that? I'm immature because I want whats best for me?

I am trying to do things right. I'm here on TLS for that very reason. How many people going to schools outside the top 14 have talked so openly about this sort of stuff? There are thousands of students. One of them comes out from the shadows and it's like... "he's a troll.. this kid is delusional..."

obviously I've learned a lot since I made all those posts, but there is still nothing essentially wrong with those posts.. I was a kid with big dreams... and I still am... and I hope in the future more students will come here to these very forums with that same attitude because thats the very point of this website

at this point.. a retake on the LSAT and scholarship money at Miami is probably the best thing for me... I could probably get into better schools, but Miami is perfect for me.. and those better schools probably wouldn't be open for scholarship consideration.

I shouldnt have to feel the need to defend myself.. I was just a dude who came out of nowhere who stumbled upon these forums.. I've learned a lot here. The very nature of those posts may be considered ridiculous.. but I've only learned that because I went through it all... I've learned the reality of how hard the LSAT actually is.. you can't criticize me for not knowing...

Imagine if I hadn't been that way... aiming for Harvard... where would I end up if my goal was only Cooley... there are people like that... thousands of them..

You have to aim high in everything you do... You dont aim for a 158... you aim for a 180 and score a 159

[deadpanic]

Imagine if I hadn't been that way... aiming for Harvard... where would I end up if my goal was only Cooley... there are people like that... thousands of them..

Actually, most people are not aiming for Cooley. They get an LSAT score and realize that is the only place they can get in, accept that and rationalize it as a good choice. It is somewhat similar to what you are doing here (no offense).

Miami may not be a bad choice but only with the most minimal amount of debt and a backup plan in case you do not get a job as a lawyer, which is a decent probability out of Miami. You do seem to have a bit of the special snowflake syndrome of "I am just going to outwork everyone!" when it actuality, pretty much every single other classmate has that mentality. Good luck.

[BigZuck]

are you trying to bash my hardwork?

Nope. I don't really know anything about your hard work because I skipped the thousand posts in between your spawning and now, I tend to stay out of the LSAT prep forum/waiters threads. But no, I'm not.

I posted my dreams about wanting to go to Harvard... is there something wrong with that? I'm immature because I want whats best for me?

Is there something wrong with dreams? No, I don't think so. Is there something immature about not listening to good advice from level-headed people and not being realistic about a decision that could be majorly life-altering? Yes, I think so.

How many people going to schools outside the top 14 have talked so openly about this sort of stuff? There are thousands of students.

So?

Miami is perfect for me

But what happens if you get into Fordham? Will Fordham then be perfect for you? You seem flighty, are you saying you've had some sort of epiphany and now everything is clear? Also, don't go unless it's like 50K total cost of attendance or less

there are people like that... thousands of them..

Again, I don't know why this matters

You dont aim for a 158... you aim for a 180 and score a 159

Fine, but if you have a 3.0 and end up with a 159 and won't retake anymore, then you have to be willing to walk away from law school altogether. You don't just give it your best shot and then go to a school that will accept you. If your best shot isn't good enough then you don't go. And that's fine, no shame in that.

[baal hadad]

Miami is perfect for no one

I might now even go even if it were free

[alexrodriguez]

I just want to go to a good law school.

Miami is perfect for me.

but would Fordham be perfect for me, I dont know.. could they both be perfect for me.. sure... maybe? I dont know

Would I go there? I dont know... probably...

Nothing will ever be good enough at TLS.. I'll get accepted at Cornell miraculously and then everybody will say... absolutely don't go there unless significant scholarship money... its like...are you serious? I just go into CORNELL...I was never supposed to even have a shot at Cornell... now I'm getting in and the general consensus is.. dont go.. grab an MBA

just seems like a bunch of snobs who care more about all this other external stuff instead of becoming lawyers for the sake of being lawyers

you all have given significant advice to me and I appreciate it all. but sometimes I feel like the attitudes behind the advice is just so shitty

[bjsesq]

I just want to go to a good law school.

Miami is perfect for me.

What does "good" mean in this context?

[baal hadad]

I just want to go to a good law school.

Miami is perfect for me.

but would Fordham be perfect for me, I dont know.. could they both be perfect for me.. sure... maybe? I dont know

Would I go there? I dont know... probably...

Nothing will ever be good enough at TLS.. I'll get accepted at Cornell miraculously and then everybody will say... absolutely don't go there unless significant scholarship money... its like...are you serious? I just go into CORNELL...I was never supposed to even have a shot at Cornell... now I'm getting in and the general consensus is.. dont go.. grab an MBA

just seems like a bunch of snobs who care more about all this other external stuff instead of becoming lawyers for the sake of being lawyers

you all have given significant advice to me and I appreciate it all. but sometimes I feel like the attitudes behind the advice is just so shitty

Why should I care about becoming a lawyer for the sake of becoming a lawyer

Why is that something to aspire to

Seems pretty asinine

[BigZuck]

could they both be perfect for me.. sure... maybe? I dont know

No, they can't

Nothing will ever be good enough at TLS.. I'll get accepted at Cornell miraculously and then everybody will say... absolutely don't go there unless significant scholarship money... its like...are you serious? I just go into CORNELL...I was never supposed to even have a shot at Cornell... now I'm getting in and the general consensus is.. dont go.. grab an MBA

Knowing what I know now I don't know that I would go to any law school at sticker, particularly if I just wanted to be a big law drone. Maybe if I had some other clearly defined career path like some sort of PI that I needed a top school for, I dunno. Not sure where I would draw the debt line because that seems rather arbitrary. If your benefits could cover a good chunk of Cornell's cost of attendance I don't think anyone would fault you for attending, although it might not be your absolute best option if you got to that point.

I dunno, what you're saying there feels hyperbolic or strawmanny or something

just seems like a bunch of snobs who care more about all this other external stuff instead of becoming lawyers for the sake of being lawyers

People say this a lot when they get advice/feedback they don't like on here and I'm not sure I understand it. Can you explain? What is snobby from what has been said in this thread? And what external stuff are people overly concerned with? Do you mean things like job prospects and debt? Well, yeah. Why shouldn't people be concerned with that? What's the point of "becoming a lawyer for the sake of being lawyers" if all that means is that you have an expensive JD and are working in a job that can't service the debt, or, worse, you're not even a lawyer at all? That's the reality for like half of law school graduates in this country.

I don't know dude, you seem really caught up in prestige or status or something. Why the obsession with Harvard? Why do you even want to become a lawyer? I'm not going to begrudge someone wanting to become a lawyer to just have some sort of career and make money but the schools you are looking at give you a really iffy shot at that. This shotgun approach to apps and willingness to hitch yourself up to trap schools after being on TLS for as long as you have is concerning.

Also, forget about big law. Seriously, 100% forget about it. Pretend it doesn't exist. I know you're telling yourself "Well, I can go to a school like Miami and work really hard to be top 10% and if I get there and get big law then sweet, if I don't then that's cool" but do you actually believe yourself when you say that? Just pretend it's an impossible outcome. Will you really and truly be happy then? If not, then don't go.

[A. Nony Mouse]

louie, posters here generally just want to make sure people really know what they're getting into. They want users to look really carefully at the employment outcomes and costs of any given school, and really look at the realistic outcomes at those schools. It's important to consider the worst-case scenario and decide whether you'd be willing to risk that outcome, because you can't rely on the best-case scenario happening. People aren't being snobby about schools, it's just that the schools that offer the best outcomes (generally speaking) are schools that snobs happen to like. And given the negatives of poor outcomes - scrambling for any kind of job, trying to explain to non-legal employers why you went to law school if you don't get a legal job, servicing $100-200k debt on a $40k job - many people here aren't willing to risk it and don't think others should, either.

Of course, you're the only one who can decide if the risk is worth it for you. But there are a lot of potential negatives in what you're proposing, and people are going to point them out. And people aren't generally going to be convinced by "I'll make it happen, I'll work hard," because everyone thinks that.

I mean, I went to a regional school at sticker, so I'm not going to say you shouldn't do it. But I also completely understand why people would have told me not to do it (if I'd been on TLS then). And I really wish I'd retaken the LSAT and gone for free (or at least less).

[AReasonableMan]

I just want to go to a good law school.

Miami is perfect for me.

but would Fordham be perfect for me, I dont know.. could they both be perfect for me.. sure... maybe? I dont know

Would I go there? I dont know... probably...

Nothing will ever be good enough at TLS.. I'll get accepted at Cornell miraculously and then everybody will say... absolutely don't go there unless significant scholarship money... its like...are you serious? I just go into CORNELL...I was never supposed to even have a shot at Cornell... now I'm getting in and the general consensus is.. dont go.. grab an MBA

just seems like a bunch of snobs who care more about all this other external stuff instead of becoming lawyers for the sake of being lawyers

you all have given significant advice to me and I appreciate it all. but sometimes I feel like the attitudes behind the advice is just so shitty

There are levels of risk.

Going to Cornell presents a huge risk in the form of extremely high tuition and loans, but also presents a very good chance, probably better than fifty-fifty of getting a job that makes it pretty easy to pay back those loans and live a fine life.

Going to Fordham or Miami is also a very large financial risk, but the odds are much less than fifty-fifty. Again there are levels. No where near half of Fordham succeeds, but more than a quarter do. Less than a quarter of Miami succeeds.

It's all about levels of risk, and what level of risk is acceptable to you. But once you get down to Miami, you are clearly at a level of risk that would be unacceptable to any rational person weighing the probable risks and rewards.

[TheSpanishMain]

I just want to go to a good law school.

Miami is perfect for me.

but would Fordham be perfect for me, I dont know.. could they both be perfect for me.. sure... maybe? I dont know

Would I go there? I dont know... probably...

This is exactly what I'm getting at when I say I think you're trying to talk yourself into something just because you want to have a win. You're thinking emotionally, not rationally.

Miami and Fordham can't both be perfect for you. They're two completely different paths. Since getting admitted to Miami you're suddenly "Yeah, I want to be in Miami forever, Miami is home, I'm all about Miami" but now you're saying you'd also go to Fordham? If you're so committed to Miami (the city), why would you ever consider Fordham?

I'm not saying you can't feel good about getting into Miami, and I'm not trying to be a black cloud here. But Miami is only good for you if you can truthfully say that you a) Are happy not doing Big Law. Not "we'll see" but willing to put it completely out of your mind. b) Want to live in work in and only in South Florida. and c) Are attending for free or very, very little debt. Assuming you get a job out of Miami, it's not going to be a models and bottles Suits fantasy life job. You're going to be working at small firm or in local government for like 50k a year to start.

It's just pretty clear that you're trying to convince yourself that those things all apply to you when they don't. As Zuck said, it makes you seem flighty and a little immature.

Going to Fordham or Miami is also a very large financial risk, but the odds are much less than fifty-fifty. Again there are levels. No where near half of Fordham succeeds, but more than a quarter do. Less than a quarter of Miami succeeds.

You're being a little cavalier in saying that success = getting Big Law. They're not synonymous. There are plenty of people who don't want Big Law, or are at least indifferent to it. Now, we tend to talk about BigLaw rates because it's a decent rough guide to employment outcomes in general: a school that places a high percentage of grads into Big Law jobs can probably also give them a good shot at government and non-shitty smaller firms. But saying that they only people who are "successful" are those who get Big Law is a pretty crude projection.

[alexrodriguez]

I just want to go to a good law school.

Miami is perfect for me.

but would Fordham be perfect for me, I dont know.. could they both be perfect for me.. sure... maybe? I dont know

Would I go there? I dont know... probably...

This is exactly what I'm getting at when I say I think you're trying to talk yourself into something just because you want to have a win. You're thinking emotionally, not rationally.

Miami and Fordham can't both be perfect for you. They're two completely different paths. Since getting admitted to Miami you're suddenly "Yeah, I want to be in Miami forever, Miami is home, I'm all about Miami" but now you're saying you'd also go to Fordham? If you're so committed to Miami, why would you ever consider Fordham?

I'm not saying you can't feel good about getting into Miami, and I'm not trying to be a black cloud here. But Miami is only good for you if you can truthfully say that you a) Are happy not doing Big Law. Not "we'll see" but willing to put it completely out of your mind. b) Want to live in work in and only in South Florida. and c) Are attending for free or very, very little debt. Assuming you get a job out of Miami, it's not going to be a models and bottles Suits fantasy life job. You're going to be working at small firm or in local government for like 50k a year to start.

It's just pretty clear that you're trying to convince yourself that those things all apply to you when they don't. As Zuck said, it makes you seem flighty and a little immature.

Going to Fordham or Miami is also a very large financial risk, but the odds are much less than fifty-fifty. Again there are levels. No where near half of Fordham succeeds, but more than a quarter do. Less than a quarter of Miami succeeds.

You're being a little cavalier in saying that success = getting Big Law. They're not synonymous. There are plenty of people who don't want Big Law, or are at least indifferent to it. Now, we tend to talk about BigLaw rates because it's a decent rough guide to employment outcomes in general: a school that places a high percentage of grads into Big Law jobs can probably also give them a good shot at government and non-shitty smaller firms. But saying that they only people who are "successful" are those who get Big Law is a pretty crude projection.

I think I will be attending with very little debt. With my GI Bill and my own personal savings a JD from Miami will cost about 75k. My parents will be making some sort of contribution. I'm not sure what that is, but it will be something.

I will be retaking the LSAT also. So hopefully I'll be considered for a scholarship bringing that price tag down.

With all this said... I feel like I'm in a pretty decent position.

And I am indifferent to big law... if it presents itself fine... thats great... If I end up at a firm with just 5 other people.. thats fine too.. before TLS, biglaw was never something I thought about... it does sound exciting... but so does being a professional hockey player.. I'll live

maybe I'll go into public interest. maybe I'll be a JAG. the one I served under at my last command was a Miami law graduate... so who knows... and I don't say I'll become a JAG as some sort of backup plan.. in case shit hits the fan... I'll work my ass off... attempt to be in the top 10% and feel like I deserved it...

I appreciate the input TLS. I don't know if its because I haven't had any coffee today or if you all are just making me stress out about finances... but I haven't been in the best spirits today..

I'm done with this thread.. I'll be sure to let you all know where I end up and how I do in December. Thanks for everything. Thanks for letting me know the risks and what I'm getting myself into.

[AReasonableMan]

I just want to go to a good law school.

Miami is perfect for me.

but would Fordham be perfect for me, I dont know.. could they both be perfect for me.. sure... maybe? I dont know

Would I go there? I dont know... probably...

This is exactly what I'm getting at when I say I think you're trying to talk yourself into something just because you want to have a win. You're thinking emotionally, not rationally.

Miami and Fordham can't both be perfect for you. They're two completely different paths. Since getting admitted to Miami you're suddenly "Yeah, I want to be in Miami forever, Miami is home, I'm all about Miami" but now you're saying you'd also go to Fordham? If you're so committed to Miami (the city), why would you ever consider Fordham?

I'm not saying you can't feel good about getting into Miami, and I'm not trying to be a black cloud here. But Miami is only good for you if you can truthfully say that you a) Are happy not doing Big Law. Not "we'll see" but willing to put it completely out of your mind. b) Want to live in work in and only in South Florida. and c) Are attending for free or very, very little debt. Assuming you get a job out of Miami, it's not going to be a models and bottles Suits fantasy life job. You're going to be working at small firm or in local government for like 50k a year to start.

It's just pretty clear that you're trying to convince yourself that those things all apply to you when they don't. As Zuck said, it makes you seem flighty and a little immature.

Going to Fordham or Miami is also a very large financial risk, but the odds are much less than fifty-fifty. Again there are levels. No where near half of Fordham succeeds, but more than a quarter do. Less than a quarter of Miami succeeds.

You're being a little cavalier in saying that success = getting Big Law. They're not synonymous. There are plenty of people who don't want Big Law, or are at least indifferent to it. Now, we tend to talk about BigLaw rates because it's a decent rough guide to employment outcomes in general: a school that places a high percentage of grads into Big Law jobs can probably also give them a good shot at government and non-shitty smaller firms. But saying that they only people who are "successful" are those who get Big Law is a pretty crude projection.

I didn't mean big law specifically. I meant the percentage that get good clerkships, big law, midlaw and prestigious pi positions. it's difficult to measure success in government or PI without looking at people over the long term.

[TheSpanishMain]

That's fair. I'm just cautious about defining success narrowly because people don't have uniform goals.

[AReasonableMan]

That's fair. I'm just cautious about defining success narrowly because people don't have uniform goals.

This is side tracking, but if you can't assign a finite value to it, your point could be taken to support attending any law school.

[jingosaur]

And here he is, in his "Should I go to Quinnipiac?" thread excited about the fact that he got into Miami.

I do find both endearing on some level but both just seem like a trainwreck to me

Seriously Lou, you've got to focus here and be real with yourself. If you're going to do this, do it right. People here can help you, it's an amazing resource. But you have to actually internalize what they say and apply the good advice. The first step is to ignore your own thoughts/impulses because those will absolutely lead your astray. If you're not mature enough to do that, then go acquire some maturity and come back once you have it.

An ex-girlfriend of mine told me she was gonna go to Harvard Law when her GPA was 2.7. People get very optimistic about this stuff.

[Rigo]

An ex-girlfriend of mine told me she was gonna go to Harvard Law when her GPA was 2.7. People get very optimistic about this stuff.

Special Snowflake Syndrome.

[TheSpanishMain]

That's fair. I'm just cautious about defining success narrowly because people don't have uniform goals.

This is side tracking, but if you can't assign a finite value to it, your point could be taken to support attending any law school.

Oh, no, there are plenty of law schools that are unmitigated shit wall-to-wall, I agree. I'm just pointing out that success = BigLaw leaves out a lot of people who had more modest goals to begin with. If a guy wants to be a prosecutor in his hometown, goes to the state flagship for cheap/free, and then takes his 45k ADA job, I'd put him in the success column. Your point that Cornell > Fordham > Miami I'd agree with, I'm just saying that going "Miami has a 10% BL rate, therefore you have a 10% chance of 'success'" is too crude.

[mvp99]

And I am indifferent to big law... if it presents itself fine... thats great... If I end up at a firm with just 5 other people.. thats fine too.

I don't think this fits the definition of indifferent...

[AReasonableMan]

And I am indifferent to big law... if it presents itself fine... thats great... If I end up at a firm with just 5 other people.. thats fine too.

I don't think this fits the definition of indifferent...

I don't think that people care about the size of the office. They care about things that are correlated with larger offices.