WUSTL $$$ v NU @ Sticker - Resolved 6/27/14 Forum

[workaholic82]

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[workaholic82]

Sorry to hear about the scholly amount. I'd tell NU thanks but no thanks.

I was also quite amazed at how accessible T14s were to otherwise average college slackers. I remember when UC Davis was my "dream" law school before I knew anything about anything.

LOL, TLS should open a pre-law-school school. Learned SO much from this site. And still learning...

[Micdiddy]

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Ninja edit. But what is for dinner?

[workaholic82]

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Ninja edit. But what is for dinner?

Looool. Almost my foot..

[Onomatopoeia]

stick with wustl and bust ur ass there. everyone voting NU is patently retarded. the dude is already in his 30s. there is a good chance he will have loans up til the point of retirement if he goes to NU

[Nomo]

This is about what you can stomach debt wise and what your ideal outcome is. It sounds like you really really want biglaw. And if that is the case, NW may be the right call. I'd go WUSTL here to keep opportunities open other than biglaw. I'd think long and hard about why you want biglaw and make sure that is what you want. If that is what you want, it sounds like you are leaning towards NW, which is a fine decision.

I really just want BigLaw because I don't have a family yet, have never earned much money and feel I could thrive in a soul-crushing atmosphere. To this point in my life I've lazed around and don't have much to show for it. I'm willing to and interested in devoting myself to an unforgiving work-life in part to salvage my financial future, and in part to pay penance for my erstwhile underachieving ways. THat and DAT preftige and money!

Biglaw with 250k debt at graduation will not salvage your financial future. And I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but debt at graduation is less than debt at the start of your job (biglaw jobs normally start in October, sometimes November or December - that's a lot of interest).

You're going to face a high tax rate and an expectation to spend serious money on clothing, housing, and social events to match your peers (other people making a lot of money). Its not going to be easy to pay off that debt. There is about a 40% chance you don't get biglaw. But even if you do there's a 50% chance you're gone within 5 years. You're going to have to be very frugal compared to your peers to have your debt down to 100k at that point. And you're looking at a paycut when you leave. The price is just too damn high.

[workaholic82]

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[workaholic82]

stick with wustl and bust ur ass there. everyone voting NU is patently retarded. the dude is already in his 30s. there is a good chance he will have loans up til the point of retirement if he goes to NU

Thank you for your opinion.

[workaholic82]

This is about what you can stomach debt wise and what your ideal outcome is. It sounds like you really really want biglaw. And if that is the case, NW may be the right call. I'd go WUSTL here to keep opportunities open other than biglaw. I'd think long and hard about why you want biglaw and make sure that is what you want. If that is what you want, it sounds like you are leaning towards NW, which is a fine decision.

I really just want BigLaw because I don't have a family yet, have never earned much money and feel I could thrive in a soul-crushing atmosphere. To this point in my life I've lazed around and don't have much to show for it. I'm willing to and interested in devoting myself to an unforgiving work-life in part to salvage my financial future, and in part to pay penance for my erstwhile underachieving ways. THat and DAT preftige and money!

Biglaw with 250k debt at graduation will not salvage your financial future. And I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but debt at graduation is less than debt at the start of your job (biglaw jobs normally start in October, sometimes November or December - that's a lot of interest).

You're going to face a high tax rate and an expectation to spend serious money on clothing, housing, and social events to match your peers (other people making a lot of money). Its not going to be easy to pay off that debt. There is about a 40% chance you don't get biglaw. But even if you do there's a 50% chance you're gone within 5 years. You're going to have to be very frugal compared to your peers to have your debt down to 100k at that point. And you're looking at a paycut when you leave. The price is just too damn high.

I hear you. I'm pretty certain I will be unable to do this, but in the event I could finagle it so that I could live with family for all 3 school years, saving between 35 and $45,000.00, thus making my debt at graduation closer to 200k. Does this change the answer?

[ph14]

Unfortunately, I don't think so. Could you defer a year and then work and save up some money so you won't have to take out as much loans? It's a tougher decision if we're talking 150k or less.

[Johann]

This is about what you can stomach debt wise and what your ideal outcome is. It sounds like you really really want biglaw. And if that is the case, NW may be the right call. I'd go WUSTL here to keep opportunities open other than biglaw. I'd think long and hard about why you want biglaw and make sure that is what you want. If that is what you want, it sounds like you are leaning towards NW, which is a fine decision.

I really just want BigLaw because I don't have a family yet, have never earned much money and feel I could thrive in a soul-crushing atmosphere. To this point in my life I've lazed around and don't have much to show for it. I'm willing to and interested in devoting myself to an unforgiving work-life in part to salvage my financial future, and in part to pay penance for my erstwhile underachieving ways. THat and DAT preftige and money!

Biglaw with 250k debt at graduation will not salvage your financial future. And I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but debt at graduation is less than debt at the start of your job (biglaw jobs normally start in October, sometimes November or December - that's a lot of interest).

You're going to face a high tax rate and an expectation to spend serious money on clothing, housing, and social events to match your peers (other people making a lot of money). Its not going to be easy to pay off that debt. There is about a 40% chance you don't get biglaw. But even if you do there's a 50% chance you're gone within 5 years. You're going to have to be very frugal compared to your peers to have your debt down to 100k at that point. And you're looking at a paycut when you leave. The price is just too damn high.

I hear you. I'm pretty certain I will be unable to do this, but in the event I could finagle it so that I could live with family for all 3 school years, saving between 35 and $45,000.00 pre-interest, thus making my debt at graduation closer to 180-200k. Does this change the answer?

This decision is about personal preference. Just because I would invest in wustl doesn't mean you shouldn't invest in nw. Both of these options are way better than your current alternative of making 30k trying to pay down loans. Paye and ibr are real and will soften the bad outcome blow of nw. Like I said I'd go wustl so that if to turns out you get presented with an awesome career alternative you won't feel debt crushed. But if you're gonna wake up every other morning at wustl and wonder why you didn't go to nw, then you need to go nw

[Onomatopoeia]

I hear you. I'm pretty certain I will be unable to do this, but in the event I could finagle it so that I could live with family for all 3 school years, saving between 35 and $45,000.00 pre-interest, thus making my debt at graduation closer to 180-200k. Does this change the answer?

it helps, but still doesnt change the answer imo.

i think you're underestimating your COA with housing or w.o housing. basically your pre-existing debt + 30K scholly + 10k savings means you're paying sticker for NU. Sticker for NU is $291,900. With the off chance housing is provided, you're looking at ~250K. Living frugally at wustl is also much easier than at chicago. talk to wustl about upping your scholly to full tuition if possible. use ur NU acceptance for this purpose . even if its denied i think you can come out of wustl with ~80K in debt which is pretty sweet considering how abysmal ur UGPA is.

[workaholic82]

Unfortunately, I don't think so. Could you defer a year and then work and save up some money so you won't have to take out as much loans? It's a tougher decision if we're talking 150k or less.

I don't think so. The highest paying job I have access to is about 30K, and that's pre-tax. I could save maybe 10K at most, and that's stretching it... However, if I were among the 40% who got a 2L SA, that's another 20K off the loans, bringing them down to $170 or so...

[workaholic82]

I hear you. I'm pretty certain I will be unable to do this, but in the event I could finagle it so that I could live with family for all 3 school years, saving between 35 and $45,000.00 pre-interest, thus making my debt at graduation closer to 180-200k. Does this change the answer?

it helps, but still doesnt change the answer imo.

i think you're underestimating your COA with housing or w.o housing. basically your pre-existing debt + 30K scholly + 10k savings means you're paying sticker for NU. Sticker for NU is $291,900. With the off chance housing is provided, you're looking at ~250K. Living frugally at wustl is also much easier than at chicago. talk to wustl about upping your scholly to full tuition if possible. use ur NU acceptance for this purpose . even if its denied i think you can come out of wustl with ~80K in debt which is pretty sweet considering how abysmal ur UGPA is.

I already have full tuition at WUSTL, which is $150,000. I don't understand what you mean that sticker at NU is $291,900. Tuition is $56,000 / year, and $56,000 X 3 = $162,000.00 How does that become $291,000?

Edit: If I live with family for each year, I'm saving the roughly $12,000.00 in rent plus roughly another $2,000.00 in groceries, for an additional scholarship/savings of $42,000.00. That plus my savings plus the $30k scholarship means I'm saving roughly $82,000.00. Add in the additional saved interest and that's probably closer to $115,000 saved, and if I got an SA, I think my debt at graduation would only be about $175k. This seems worthwhile to me. Not that I can live at home, I don't think it's an option...

[Onomatopoeia]

I already have full tuition at WUSTL, which is $150,000. I don't understand what you mean that sticker at NU is $291,900. Tuition is $56,000 / year, and $56,000 X 3 = $162,000.00 How does that become $291,000?

cost of attendance is almost 80k a year. 240k post interest is ~291K according to the tls wiki i checked. 6-8% interest is a bitch

[jk148706]

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[chuckbass]

I think after reading through all of this, I'd choose WUSTL. You're basically paying sticker for NU, and I think that debt is even more concerning relative to your age. Regardless of whether you land biglaw or have to use PAYE/IBR/LRAP, that much debt could really mess up things that aren't too far off for you i.e. buying a house, retirement, starting a family down the line, etc.

*disclaimer, I'll be attending WUSTL in the fall, but I still think that attending a T20 on a full ride is better than most of the T14 at sticker

[jk148706]

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[workaholic82]

I think after reading through all of this, I'd choose WUSTL. You're basically paying sticker for NU, and I think that debt is even more concerning relative to your age. Regardless of whether you land biglaw or have to use PAYE/IBR/LRAP, that much debt could really mess up things that aren't too far off for you i.e. buying a house, retirement, starting a family down the line, etc.

*disclaimer, I'll be attending WUSTL in the fall, but I still think that attending a T20 on a full ride is better than most of the T14 at sticker

Yes, you're all correct on the debt at repayment, BUT in this scenario:
I live at home, saving roughly $40,000.00, I have a 30K scholarship and then another $10K savings, You subtract $80,000 from the $240,000.00 total and are left with $160,000.00. Add interest and that's maybe $185,000.00, add my pre-existing debt and that's about $220,000.00, and subtract about $15K from a summer SA, and you have about $200K. STILL not worth it???

[ph14]

I think after reading through all of this, I'd choose WUSTL. You're basically paying sticker for NU, and I think that debt is even more concerning relative to your age. Regardless of whether you land biglaw or have to use PAYE/IBR/LRAP, that much debt could really mess up things that aren't too far off for you i.e. buying a house, retirement, starting a family down the line, etc.

*disclaimer, I'll be attending WUSTL in the fall, but I still think that attending a T20 on a full ride is better than most of the T14 at sticker

Yes, you're all correct on the debt at repayment, BUT in this scenario:
I live at home, saving roughly $40,000.00, I have a 30K scholarship and then another $10K savings, You subtract $80,000 from the $240,000.00 total and are left with $160,000.00. Add interest and that's maybe $185,000.00, add my pre-existing debt and that's about $220,000.00, and subtract about $15K from a summer SA, and you have about $200K. STILL not worth it???

No, and you're not guaranteed a summer SA.

[03152016]

a while back i did the calculations for another NU admit who was evaluating sticker with $30k parental assistance
so that matches your sitch
however he estimated living expenses at $20k yearly which i thought was too low, considering room, board, wardrobe, computer, travel, etc

Tuition (for 2013-2014 academic year) - $54,764
Living expenses - $20,000
Parent's help - ($10,000)

Net COA 1L (3.64% inflation) - $66,575
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over three years - $3,603
Plus origination fee - $1,976
Plus interest over three years - $9,741

Net COA 2L (3.64% inflation) - $68,824
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over two years - $2,336
Plus origination fee - $2,072
Plus interest over two years - $6,592

Net COA 3L (3.64% inflation) - $70,965
Stafford origination fee - $220
Stafford interest over one year - $1,136
Plus origination fee - $2,164
Plus interest over one year - $3,331

Total Net COA: $206,364
Total paid in loan fees: $6,872
Total paid in interest: $26,739
Total debt at graduation: $239,975

if op provides concrete numbers for COL i can do the math and include interest for deferment period and total costs over 10 years

[jk148706]

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[workaholic82]

I think after reading through all of this, I'd choose WUSTL. You're basically paying sticker for NU, and I think that debt is even more concerning relative to your age. Regardless of whether you land biglaw or have to use PAYE/IBR/LRAP, that much debt could really mess up things that aren't too far off for you i.e. buying a house, retirement, starting a family down the line, etc.

*disclaimer, I'll be attending WUSTL in the fall, but I still think that attending a T20 on a full ride is better than most of the T14 at sticker

Yes, you're all correct on the debt at repayment, BUT in this scenario:
I live at home, saving roughly $40,000.00, I have a 30K scholarship and then another $10K savings, You subtract $80,000 from the $240,000.00 total and are left with $160,000.00. Add interest and that's maybe $185,000.00, add my pre-existing debt and that's about $220,000.00, and subtract about $15K from a summer SA, and you have about $200K. STILL not worth it???

No, and you're not guaranteed a summer SA.

True. In the event I don't get an SA/BigLaw, what's wrong with just PAYE-ing this for 20 years, at which point I'll be 55. I can then settle with the IRS for whatever the tax liability is. They can't squeeze blood from a stone, and are often willing to settle when it's the only way they can get their money.

[chuckbass]

I think after reading through all of this, I'd choose WUSTL. You're basically paying sticker for NU, and I think that debt is even more concerning relative to your age. Regardless of whether you land biglaw or have to use PAYE/IBR/LRAP, that much debt could really mess up things that aren't too far off for you i.e. buying a house, retirement, starting a family down the line, etc.

*disclaimer, I'll be attending WUSTL in the fall, but I still think that attending a T20 on a full ride is better than most of the T14 at sticker

Yes, you're all correct on the debt at repayment, BUT in this scenario:
I live at home, saving roughly $40,000.00, I have a 30K scholarship and then another $10K savings, You subtract $80,000 from the $240,000.00 total and are left with $160,000.00. Add interest and that's maybe $185,000.00, add my pre-existing debt and that's about $220,000.00, and subtract about $15K from a summer SA, and you have about $200K. STILL not worth it???

No, and you're not guaranteed a summer SA.

I think people also overestimate how much they can save from an SA. Some of the things that you have to/may factor in include taxes, subletting an apartment for the summer, updating business wardrobe, and saving up enough money to cover you from graduation through the bar exam until starting at a firm (depending on if your firm provides you with a stipend/advance).

[chuckbass]

True. In the event I don't get an SA/BigLaw, what's wrong with just PAYE-ing this for 20 years, at which point I'll be 55. I can then settle with the IRS for whatever the tax liability is. They can't squeeze blood from a stone, and are often willing to settle when it's the only way they can get their money.

What if you have a kid and you want to help them attend college?