Albany v. St.johns Forum

[john1990]

Just so I can understand the situation better: you had the numbers for BU and chose TJLS instead? Or you believe you'll have the numbers to transfer to BU?

And are you saying part of your rationale for going to TJLS was having less competition?

Just trying to get a picture, as I haven't been following your posts.

I went to TJSL because I could not get financing. However, I had the right LSAT/GPA for BU. I am considering reapplying as a 1L because my financial situation has resolved itself.

[stillwater]

Just so I can understand the situation better: you had the numbers for BU and chose TJLS instead? Or you believe you'll have the numbers to transfer to BU?

And are you saying part of your rationale for going to TJLS was having less competition?

Just trying to get a picture, as I haven't been following your posts.

I went to TJSL because I could not get financing. However, I had the right LSAT/GPA for BU. I am considering reapplying as a 1L because my financial situation has resolved itself.

i dont understand the rationale of going to arguably the worst law school in America (even for free).

[BigZuck]

Just so I can understand the situation better: you had the numbers for BU and chose TJLS instead? Or you believe you'll have the numbers to transfer to BU?

And are you saying part of your rationale for going to TJLS was having less competition?

Just trying to get a picture, as I haven't been following your posts.

I went to TJSL because I could not get financing. However, I had the right LSAT/GPA for BU. I am considering reapplying as a 1L because my financial situation has resolved itself.

i dont understand the rationale of going to arguably the worst law school in America (even for free).

It's because he could not get financing. Duh.

[rickgrimes69]

Just so I can understand the situation better: you had the numbers for BU and chose TJLS instead? Or you believe you'll have the numbers to transfer to BU?

And are you saying part of your rationale for going to TJLS was having less competition?

Just trying to get a picture, as I haven't been following your posts.

I went to TJSL because I could not get financing. However, I had the right LSAT/GPA for BU. I am considering reapplying as a 1L because my financial situation has resolved itself.

i dont understand the rationale of going to arguably the worst law school in America (even for free).

it's a strong regional dood stop being so elitest

[stillwater]

Just so I can understand the situation better: you had the numbers for BU and chose TJLS instead? Or you believe you'll have the numbers to transfer to BU?

And are you saying part of your rationale for going to TJLS was having less competition?

Just trying to get a picture, as I haven't been following your posts.

I went to TJSL because I could not get financing. However, I had the right LSAT/GPA for BU. I am considering reapplying as a 1L because my financial situation has resolved itself.

i dont understand the rationale of going to arguably the worst law school in America (even for free).

it's a strong regional dood stop being so elitest

i do like me some prestige

[Nova]

I am considering reapplying as a 1L because my financial situation has resolved itself.

Why?


Whats 35% employment to 65% when the lsat jumps from 40th to 90th? It is easy to do well in class as a result.

[Yanky91]

I found that these schools had comparable career statistics and that Albany is far less selective in admissions. Wouldn't that mean that it is easier to do well at Albany and easier to get a job out of there. I also found that Albany Law has OCI with some NYC firms. Albany Law has a higher compared with many schools and a median of just 153 you would think it would be an easier way to become a lawyer.
School median LSAT Employment Score
Albany 153 50
Brooklyn 163 49
Cardozo 162 53
Pace 154 48
St Johns 160 49

How do you explain such a flat line employment score? Given Albany's low LSAT median wouldn't you think it would be easier to be among the 50% with law jobs? On an interesting note Touro Law has a 50% employment score. How can Touro have the same employment score as Brooklyn. Touro is producing more lawyers!
Brooklyn jumps to 75% after 9 months while Touro's numbers cannot be found.

Which school offers a student the easiest way to become a lawyer in your opinion? Albany Law appears to have the same employment score and is less competitive.

I got a 160 LSAT and a 3.5 GPA and I am thinking that St Johns might be difficult and I might struggle to break median wheres I might be able to get into the top quartile at Albany since there 75th percentile LSAT is only a 157. Wouldn't it be better to be at the 25th percentile at Albany than median at St Johns?

With those numbers I think you have a good shot at getting a full ride to St. Johns. With a full ride, I would go to St. Johns over Albany.

[Winston1984]

I also love how you state that top third does well at TJSL, but in reality they don't even have FTLT legal jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=thomasjefferson

[03152016]

I'm going to assume, John, that you're on the level.

If you're having credit problems that are preventing you from attending certain law schools, read this article: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=154708

Choosing a school that gives you a scholarship makes sense. But you must know that you can get scholarships from much, much better schools. The fact that you want to transfer from TJLS before you've even started indicates that you know how limited your opportunities are there.

You probably made the decision to attend TJLS based on reasons that made sense to you at the time. You want to start school sooner rather than later. I'm in the same boat -- I'd start immediately if I could. And you're thinking that you'll outperform your peers at TJLS and will be able to transfer out. That's not an unreasonable idea; your numbers and UG indicate you're a smart guy.

But here's the thing. You have no idea how well you're going to perform in law school. You just don't. It's possible, maybe even likely, that you'll be in the top 10% and can play the transfer game. But you're making a serious gamble. Maybe problems develop at home. Maybe you struggle with your courses, or have bad luck on exams. Maybe you find the environment a little more competitive than you thought, as your classmates are pushing as hard as they can so they can transfer out too. Now your transfer is looking less likely, since your LSAT/UGPA don't count towards the transfer school's rankings, and who wants to accept a T4 transfer who didn't excel?

I'm sure you've considered this before. Maybe you've had doubts, but as you saw your choices being criticized on TLS, you hardened your position. That's fine, happens to all of us. But I think you should reassess, right now. If you're still 100% committed to your decision, knowing that you may not have a chance at other schools once you attend TJLS, and knowing what the employment prospects are for TJLS grads, then I wish you the best of luck. But if you're still harboring doubts about this life-changing decision, then withdraw.

Just call up the admissions office and withdraw.

That's all there is to it. Because if your doubts are founded, you've just saved yourself from a train-wreck. Plenty of very smart people from much better schools than TJLS can't find legal work after law school. And if your doubts aren't founded? Big deal. So you start school half a year later. And you attend a much better school, offering much better employment prospects and networking opportunities, and possibly a big fat scholarship too. It's a win-win. You made a prudent decision that improves your future considerably. Yes, it will cause you some temporary pain. Explaining your decision to your parents is probably going to suck, the school will be pissed off, etc. But you'll know you made the right choice, not selling yourself short, and not denying yourself the possibility of achieving the career you want and are capable of.

[john1990]

I also love how you state that top third does well at TJSL, but in reality they don't even have FTLT legal jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=thomasjefferson

They do 9 months after graduation though. Although top quartile is better

[Winston1984]

I also love how you state that top third does well at TJSL, but in reality they don't even have FTLT legal jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=thomasjefferson

They do 9 months after graduation though. Although top quartile is better

That percentage is 9 months out dawg.

[PepperJack]

If what John is saying is true then all of the t-14 sticker payers in the top quartile (myself included) did make a mistake not taking a full ride to lesser tier 1's postante.

[john1990]

I also love how you state that top third does well at TJSL, but in reality they don't even have FTLT legal jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=thomasjefferson

They do 9 months after graduation though. Although top quartile is better

That percentage is 9 months out dawg.

Yes, but with student loans most students are able to job search for 9 months before money becomes a problem. I would be able to handle 9 months of unemployment. Although, I agree top quartile is better.

[03152016]

From 2012:

The publication Business Insider has published a list of American law schools with the worst employment records -- that is, percent of 2011 grads that were unemployed or seeking employment nine months after graduation. The data are from the Wall Street Journal. Fourth worst is San Diego's Thomas Jefferson School of Law: 31.36% were unemployed or seeking employment in the period. Only 27% were employed in a job requiring a JD. Some 55% passed the bar the first time, versus the state average of 72%.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/n ... ent-recor/

From 2013:

According to a story in the Sacramento Bee, 33.9% of 2012 graduates of San Diego's Thomas Jefferson School of Law were unemployed nine months after graduation. The data are from the American Bar Association. Jefferson had the highest unemployment rate among 21 California law schools...

The bar association also reported on the percentage of 2012 law school grads with a full-time job requiring a law degree nine months after graduation. Jefferson was 19th at 31%...

--LinkRemoved--

2012 LST article:

In a sworn statement, Karen Grant, a former career services assistant director at Thomas Jefferson School of Law, admits that she fabricated graduate employment outcomes for the class of 2006. Grant alleges that her fraud was part of a deliberate scheme by the law school’s administration to inflate its employment statistics. She also claims that her direct supervisor, Laura Weseley, former Director of Career Services, instructed her on multiple occasions to improperly record graduate employment outcomes and justified the scheme because “everybody does it” thus “it is no big deal.” TJSL could face sanctions from the American Bar Association as severe as losing accreditation.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... -to-fraud/

It's not too late my friend.

[john1990]

If what John is saying is true then all of the t-14 sticker payers in the top quartile (myself included) did make a mistake not taking a full ride to lesser tier 1's postante.

No not if your in the top quartile. That is very impressive that you got the top quartile with what I assume are low numbers. Congrats.

Frankly I am considering BU assuming I get in with a 166 and 3.3 as a reapplicant. I am just worried about being 200k in debt and part of the 25% unemployed. I could alternatively be at TJSL and 60k in debt and part of the 75% unemployed.

Are BU grads able to get shitlaw and just turn up the offer? Because I like my odds of do better at an easier school. Wouldn't it be easier to get 75% at TJ than 25% at BU

[BigZuck]

If what John is saying is true then all of the t-14 sticker payers in the top quartile (myself included) did make a mistake not taking a full ride to lesser tier 1's postante.

No not if your in the top quartile. That is very impressive that you got the top quartile with what I assume are low numbers. Congrats.

Frankly I am considering BU assuming I get in with a 166 and 3.3 as a reapplicant. I am just worried about being 200k in debt and part of the 25% unemployed. I could alternatively be at TJSL and 60k in debt and part of the 75% unemployed.

Are BU grads able to get shitlaw and just turn up the offer? Because I like my odds of do better at an easier school. Wouldn't it be easier to get 75% at TJ than 25% at BU

No. Just no. To everything. You're either a troll or someone who should not go to law school. I hope and believe that you're just a troll.

[Winston1984]

If what John is saying is true then all of the t-14 sticker payers in the top quartile (myself included) did make a mistake not taking a full ride to lesser tier 1's postante.

No not if your in the top quartile. That is very impressive that you got the top quartile with what I assume are low numbers. Congrats.

Frankly I am considering BU assuming I get in with a 166 and 3.3 as a reapplicant. I am just worried about being 200k in debt and part of the 25% unemployed. I could alternatively be at TJSL and 60k in debt and part of the 75% unemployed.

Are BU grads able to get shitlaw and just turn up the offer? Because I like my odds of do better at an easier school. Wouldn't it be easier to get 75% at TJ than 25% at BU

Everyone would agree that is too much for BU, but you keep stating your options as 2 extremes. What about WUSTL on a huge scholarship? If you really wanted NY and didn't care about biglaw, you could take a full ride to dozo or Brooklyn with your numbers. But I'm done talking about it because we are hijacking this thread.

[03152016]

If what John is saying is true then all of the t-14 sticker payers in the top quartile (myself included) did make a mistake not taking a full ride to lesser tier 1's postante.

No not if your in the top quartile. That is very impressive that you got the top quartile with what I assume are low numbers. Congrats.

Frankly I am considering BU assuming I get in with a 166 and 3.3 as a reapplicant. I am just worried about being 200k in debt and part of the 25% unemployed. I could alternatively be at TJSL and 60k in debt and part of the 75% unemployed.

Are BU grads able to get shitlaw and just turn up the offer? Because I like my odds of do better at an easier school. Wouldn't it be easier to get 75% at TJ than 25% at BU

The LST figures for long-term, full-time legal jobs are for TJLS and 64.1% for BU. TBH, I wouldn't do TJLS full-ride or BU sticker. But Winston is right, it's a false dichotomy. There are lots of schools with far better job placement than TJLS that can give you substantial scholarship money.

[PepperJack]

Was well higher than top quartile - numbers just weren't low, just didn't anticipate I'd be in a field where GPA was important. But if i entered with the intent to drop out if I wasn't top third then attending a school where I'd go for free but drop out if not xxx may have been smarter. Who knows?

If what John is saying is true then all of the t-14 sticker payers in the top quartile (myself included) did make a mistake not taking a full ride to lesser tier 1's postante.

No not if your in the top quartile. That is very impressive that you got the top quartile with what I assume are low numbers. Congrats.

Frankly I am considering BU assuming I get in with a 166 and 3.3 as a reapplicant. I am just worried about being 200k in debt and part of the 25% unemployed. I could alternatively be at TJSL and 60k in debt and part of the 75% unemployed.

Are BU grads able to get shitlaw and just turn up the offer? Because I like my odds of do better at an easier school. Wouldn't it be easier to get 75% at TJ than 25% at BU

[03152016]

Was well higher than top quartile - numbers just weren't low, just didn't anticipate I'd be in a field where GPA was important. But if i entered with the intent to drop out if I wasn't top third then attending a school where I'd go for free but drop out if not xxx may have been smarter. Who knows?

Wat. Maybe I've just had too much beer tonight...

[Mal Reynolds]

John1990 is a great example of the type of idiots scam law schools prey on.

[john1990]

John1990 is a great example of the type of idiots scam law schools prey on.

I'm on a full scholarship. My school isn't making anything off of me

[Mal Reynolds]

John1990 is a great example of the type of idiots scam law schools prey on.

I'm on a full scholarship. My school isn't making anything off of me

Yeah, they're only taking three years of your life. You're probably smart enough to do like data entry or something. Some type of clerical work would be more than enough to make up for the losses in opportunity cost.

[03152016]

John1990 is a great example of the type of idiots scam law schools prey on.

I understand where he's coming from, though. When I first expressed interest in law school, the lawyers I knew (although encouraging me to study hard for the LSAT) told me not to sweat rankings. My mentor, a wealthy M&A lawyer who graduated from a TTTT in the 70s, told me that if I go to a low ranked school, I just need to work hard and focus on graduating in the top 10% -- firm offers and six figure salaries would follow.

"Easy", I thought. I can go to Western New England like my father did and I'll turn out fine. Besides, I'm a hard worker and a good student (my UGPA notwithstanding). As I watched friends filter into TTs and TTTs and TTTTs, it strongly reinforced that belief. I wasn't stupid; I just took too seriously the advice of people who graduated law school in a different era, and I deluded myself into thinking that I'd rise to the top of a low-ranked school and be fine.

If I hadn't found TLS and the scamblogs, it's unlikely I'd do the due diligence that led me to reason that, for my goals, it was going to be T-14 or bust. That's when I hit the books.

I give consultations to a lot of prospective JDs (I teach LSAT), many of them who have parents or mentors who graduated law school in the 70s and 80s. A lot of them are severely misinformed. I've had consultations with no less than a dozen prospective JDs looking to practice corporate law, yet aiming for schools like NYLS, Pace, and CUNY (shockingly, one of my students was convinced to attend NYLS by her advisor who, drumroll please, was a professor at NYLS). I've given consultations to students who were in disbelief that COAs run well in the 200k+ range at sticker. I've given consultations to students who were certain they could strike it rich in solo practice despite the legal market being in the shitter.

And these are well-spoken, intelligent, earnest people. But they just can't fathom how much things have changed since their parents and mentors were in law school. And some, after I refer them to resources online, think I'm an elitist shitbag trying to shame them for not having T1 aspirations.

Anyways, fuck shitboomers. And I hope anyone thinking about these kinds of schools seriously consults some people who have entered the legal workforce recently. Not sure if John has made up his mind yet, and a lot of this rant isn't applicable to him, but I'm still hoping he seeks out some recent TJLS alumni and talks job prospects before he attends his first classes.

[Mal Reynolds]

John1990 has been on this board for two years you idiot.