"Hopelessly Deadlocked" b/w 2 Schools Ranked in USN's Top 4 Forum

[sinfiery]

Haha, yep. Probably why he doesn't grasp the hidden qualities of studying at NYU

[francesfarmer]

Haha, yep. Probably why he doesn't grasp the hidden qualities of studying at NYU

It's just a personal preference, meaning I am a snob

[Rahviveh]

Yo.

As the username was meant to suggest, I've been a fervent, albeit furtive, frequenter of this site and its forums throughout the course of this past year's application cycle, and first of all would like to impart how immensely thankful I am to have stumbled upon this unique online phenomenon; while it has arguably rendered the law school app process even more neurotic than it was just a decade or two ago, at least in my opinion, its benefits overwhelmingly outweigh its detriments. As such, I express my most sincere gratitude to all of you out there on the other side of your computer/smart phone screens, and I eagerly look forward to at the very least posting the details of my cycle here and on LSN in order to "give back," so to speak, once I make a final decision on where exactly I will be matriculating in the fall.

Though I admit to feeling like a bit of a tool/jerk for waiting this long to participate in this virtual marketplace of ideas (...never actually participated in any online forum before, actually...not all that tech-savvy), I nevertheless would like to finally submit a first post; one must learn to swim at some point, and it's probably long-overdue that I dove in (better late than never?). Knowing that the TLS community is comprised of so many talented, thoughtful (as well as humorous/witty ), and helpful individuals, I respectfully defer to any of its members who might feel compelled to provide me with advice at this late stage in the game (either here or PM; both are welcomed).

I was accepted off of both Chicago's and Harvard's wait lists over the past couple of months. While I feel both blessed and awe-stricken to be facing this choice between such brilliant institutions, the decision itself is poised to be uniquely challenging, in light of both nature and nurture. Here are a few elements of the situation:

1. Financial aid-comparable between the two schools, with slight (<$10,000 per year) advantage to Chicago.
2. Career Aspirations-I am, at least now, far more intrigued with the prospect of public-sector/non-profit etc. employment than with Big Law employment (and it's worth noting that academia isn't out of the question); ultimately, upon graduating, my "dream 1st job" would be to have attained a federal judicial clerkship (though, looking back to how quickly I would change major(s) during the first year of my undergraduate education, I recognize these pre-1L aspirations are both premature and tentative).
3. Academic Interests-[Law and] economics, [legal/political] philosophy, constitutional law, public policy, politics
4. Desired Places in which to Launch Career-In general, East Coast (with DC taking precedence over NYC/Boston)>Texas>Midwest
5. No significant preference either way with regard to class size, geography, relative level of competitiveness among students, grading system, clinical offerings, or extracurricular opportunities.

...wow; Having reread that list and the paragraph immediately preceding it, I'm suddenly having [oh-NOT-so-pleasant] flashbacks to the LSAT writing sample...well, for what it's worth, I note that just as in the cases of those "prompts," there is no built-in prejudice on my part toward either option; my mind, eyes, and ears are open to whatever anyone has to offer. As such, feel free to throw out whatever arguments/suggestions/advice (of any length) you may have! If you would desire knowledge of any further nuances/details of me/my situation, please PM me.

Sincerely,
Sir Lurks-a-lot

please go to harvard so i dont have to listen to your verbal diarrhea in person.

no really go to harvard, its the right choice

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

The only thing CLS is better for is name-dropping to impress drunk twentysomething girls in bars.

I hope you're not discounting the ability to impress dunk twentysomething girls in bars. I thought that was our whole plan.

Mono aren't you 20?

The alcohol laws are not nearly as dumb once you are not in THE ONLY INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD with a 21-year-old minimum.

The 21-year-old minimum is horseshit, it was passed by people who knowingly lied and manipulated statistics to engender support, it's completely ineffective, and in my opinion it's unconstitutional. I never listened to anything MADD ever produced again.

[francesfarmer]

The only thing CLS is better for is name-dropping to impress drunk twentysomething girls in bars.

I hope you're not discounting the ability to impress dunk twentysomething girls in bars. I thought that was our whole plan.

Mono aren't you 20?

The alcohol laws are not nearly as dumb once you are not in THE ONLY INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD with a 21-year-old minimum.

The 21-year-old minimum is horseshit, it was passed by people who knowingly lied and manipulated statistics to engender support, it's completely ineffective, and in my opinion it's unconstitutional. I never listened to anything MADD ever produced again.

I'm just teasing you for being a 20 year old college graduate (which I was as well), obvi the drinking age here is the stupidest thing ever, illegality =/= immorality etc etc etc

Did OP decide on Harvard yet

[stillwater]

The only thing CLS is better for is name-dropping to impress drunk twentysomething girls in bars.

I hope you're not discounting the ability to impress dunk twentysomething girls in bars. I thought that was our whole plan.

Mono aren't you 20?

The alcohol laws are not nearly as dumb once you are not in THE ONLY INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD with a 21-year-old minimum.

The 21-year-old minimum is horseshit, it was passed by people who knowingly lied and manipulated statistics to engender support, it's completely ineffective, and in my opinion it's unconstitutional. I never listened to anything MADD ever produced again.

bro, you saying Kazakhstan isnt industrialized?? sounds bigoted to me

[francesfarmer]

bro, you saying Kazakhstan isnt industrialized?? sounds bigoted to me

I'm really pleased with the turn this thread has taken

[abl]

abl wrote:
U of C ... has a number of things going for it ... --its intensity

wut


I'm not saying I personally see that as a plus -- but some (justifiably) will. Ditto the quarter system and the size -- they're going to be pretty substantial advantages for some, disadvantages for others.


What's the justification for intensity/RIGOR? You're going to be competing with the same students anyway. I don't understand how RIGOR benefits (or really harms) anyone. I do understand how it would be annoying, though.

Some people thrive in more intense environments -- the intensity pushes them to work harder than they would otherwise, which leads to them learning more.

[stillwater]

abl wrote:
U of C ... has a number of things going for it ... --its intensity

wut


I'm not saying I personally see that as a plus -- but some (justifiably) will. Ditto the quarter system and the size -- they're going to be pretty substantial advantages for some, disadvantages for others.


What's the justification for intensity/RIGOR? You're going to be competing with the same students anyway. I don't understand how RIGOR benefits (or really harms) anyone. I do understand how it would be annoying, though.

Some people thrive in more intense environments -- the intensity pushes them to work harder than they would otherwise, which leads to them learning more.

lol

[francesfarmer]

abl wrote:
U of C ... has a number of things going for it ... --its intensity

wut


I'm not saying I personally see that as a plus -- but some (justifiably) will. Ditto the quarter system and the size -- they're going to be pretty substantial advantages for some, disadvantages for others.


What's the justification for intensity/RIGOR? You're going to be competing with the same students anyway. I don't understand how RIGOR benefits (or really harms) anyone. I do understand how it would be annoying, though.

Some people thrive in more intense environments -- the intensity pushes them to work harder than they would otherwise, which leads to them learning more.

OP sounds like he is making the assumption that harvard will be insufficiently rigorous and therefore comes off as super insufferable

[abl]

abl wrote:
U of C ... has a number of things going for it ... --its intensity

wut


I'm not saying I personally see that as a plus -- but some (justifiably) will. Ditto the quarter system and the size -- they're going to be pretty substantial advantages for some, disadvantages for others.


What's the justification for intensity/RIGOR? You're going to be competing with the same students anyway. I don't understand how RIGOR benefits (or really harms) anyone. I do understand how it would be annoying, though.

Some people thrive in more intense environments -- the intensity pushes them to work harder than they would otherwise, which leads to them learning more.

OP sounds like he is making the assumption that harvard will be insufficiently rigorous and therefore comes off as super insufferable

Me? I'm not the OP and I think that Harvard's more than rigorous enough. Like I said in my first post -- I think Harvard's the easy call for the OP. Someone had just asked why I thought Chicago was the right call for some people and that was my answer.

[francesfarmer]

Me? I'm not the OP and I think that Harvard's more than rigorous enough. Like I said in my first post -- I think Harvard's the easy call for the OP. Someone had just asked why I thought Chicago was the right call for some people and that was my answer.

I meant OP, not you!

[abl]

In that case, sorry!

[bananasplit19]

In that case, sorry!

This mixup never would have happened if y'all were more eloquent like OP.

[jbagelboy]

Kill the thread

[2014]

Go to Harvard, it's not an actual decision there is no question.


This from perhaps the current #1 UChi homer on this website.

[stillwater]

Go to Harvard, it's not an actual decision there is no question.


This from perhaps the current #1 UChi homer on this website.

nah youre nothing compared to TaipeiMort

[2014]

nah youre nothing compared to TaipeiMort

He has gotten soft in his old age.


Also:

Oh God, I hope UChi students don't start flaming that they're "top 4" now.

We are, does this make you mad?

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Enjoy seeing in almost the same proportion CLS and NYU kids at NYC firms whilst we get to spend 3 years on 6th st versus 144th st

What I really enjoyed was your deliberate use of the word "almost" in that sentence, as if you were perhaps trying to suggest one of the schools significantly and consistently outplaces the other in NYC. A real puzzler, that!

Just for laughs, I went through firm websites to compare how many associates from each school went into elite NYC Biglaw. Imagine my surprise when NYU won at one firm! By golly, a 79-74 victory at Davis Polk! I rubbed my eyes and checked again, but it was indeed true. Buster Douglas had, in fact, knocked out Mike Tyson. The plucky sixth-ranked NYU students, whom we all thought were just desperately trying to hold on to their 171, had ousted Columbia. That day, it didn't matter that Columbia outplaced them at every other significant NYC firm--the party was on in East Village. I certainly commend Davis Polk for its outreach program among NYU students--the REAL under-represented minorities. The victory has been a great source of inspiration for current NYU students, who have for too long heard the naysayers talking about "Columbia's better placement in every conceivable type of Biglaw" and "a lower grade cutoff for Columbia at nearly every firm." Now they, too, know that they can defy the odds and achieve the dream of any NYU student--actually finding a good job.

/troll

[francesfarmer]

Enjoy seeing in almost the same proportion CLS and NYU kids at NYC firms whilst we get to spend 3 years on 6th st versus 144th st

What I really enjoyed was your deliberate use of the word "almost" in that sentence, as if you were perhaps trying to suggest one of the schools significantly and consistently outplaces the other in NYC. A real puzzler, that!

Just for laughs, I went through firm websites to compare how many associates from each school went into elite NYC Biglaw. Imagine my surprise when NYU won at one firm! By golly, a 79-74 victory at Davis Polk! I rubbed my eyes and checked again, but it was indeed true. Buster Douglas had, in fact, knocked out Mike Tyson. The plucky sixth-ranked NYU students, whom we all thought were just desperately trying to hold on to their 171, had ousted Columbia. That day, it didn't matter that Columbia outplaced them at every other significant NYC firm--the party was on in East Village. I certainly commend Davis Polk for its outreach program among NYU students--the REAL under-represented minorities. The victory has been a great source of inspiration for current NYU students, who have for too long heard the naysayers talking about "Columbia's better placement in every conceivable type of Biglaw" and "a lower grade cutoff for Columbia at nearly every firm." Now they, too, know that they can defy the odds and achieve the dream of any NYU student--actually finding a good job.

/troll

this thread has some serious geography issues

[sinfiery]

I enjoy how you compared.the results in absolute.terms.to.favor your side of the argument but used specific percentages to differentiate the miniscule difference NYU holds as an advantage in one elite firm. Having looked at the data myself but far too lazy to look up specific numbers again on my phone, I know the miniscule difference works both ways. Ie, the firms where there are more CLS grads is also by miniscule percentages.


Now, let us examine the historical biglaw percentages from these schools. We know that CLS outpaces just about everyone but Penn in placement. Including NYU, sometimes by a wide margin. So if we account for the self selection of PI kids (which, let's face it, NYUs UG screams, their institutional support is widely acclaimed, AND they have famous PI alumni funding PI specific scholarships that are awarded more for PI softs than numbers versus CLS having....I'm ignorant. Fill me in if you can help me out) you see that the average quality of the firm for CLS kids wanting biglaw is actually quite less than that of NYU.

Also, CLS class has a much larger transfer class. And we all know transfer kids have great grades, which sort of hides the placement inefficiency of CLS 1Ls because the percentages are inflated on who receives.biglaw jobs as most transfer kids with their 4.333s are likely getting said jobs with that CLS institutional support plus amazing grades.


So, CLS best start attracting better professors by shilling out 6m condos or maybe try moving their school out 150th st or something


/t6 for life

[francesfarmer]

It's threads like this that make me dread the people I will meet in law school

[jbagelboy]

enough CLS/NYU butthurt PLEASE its killing me stop. peer schools with different vibes and student cultures. the choice is personal not professional. lets drop it and agree to disagree if you think differently.

[francesfarmer]

enough CLS/NYU butthurt PLEASE its killing me stop. peer schools with different vibes and student cultures. the choice is personal not professional. lets drop it and agree to disagree if you think differently.

Agree.

I expect this behavior from mono because he is 20 but not you, sinfiery!

I think we completely destroyed any relevance this thread had though so that's good

[sinfiery]

Alright, alright! Let us all just get drunk together instead when we get to NYC



And yeah, this thread was a ridiculous humble brag. It deserved nothing but this