Duke w/$ vs. NYU Forum

[sinfiery]

If you want environmental law, retake, go gain years of relevant experience in the field, attend HYS, then maybe, have like a chance at it.

Don't you watch how I met your mother?

[StillIll]

I actually think our friend here is leaning NYU. And kudos. Let NYU know about your scholarship increase and see what happens.





For the record, and with all respect for all of our fellow helpful and friendly TLSers, environmental PI may be an extremely ridiculously hard niche to crack in to, but I wouldn't abandon that interest. Maybe you can find your way in there. Or end up working for the ACLU or something cool like that. My impression is just that you're leaning NYU and I would do it, man. I'm in a similar sticky situation, and I am leaning towards the (much) higher debt option of the two. If you're waiting for someone to talk you out of NYU, it won't happen, so just commit and have fun for the next three (plus) years. It's a great school and you should be proud.

[rickgrimes69]

I actually think our friend here is leaning NYU. And kudos. Let NYU know about your scholarship increase and see what happens.


For the record, and with all respect for all of our fellow helpful and friendly TLSers, environmental PI may be an extremely ridiculously hard niche to crack in to, but I wouldn't abandon that interest. Maybe you can find your way in there. Or end up working for the ACLU or something cool like that. My impression is just that you're leaning NYU and I would do it, man. I'm in a similar sticky situation, and I am leaning towards the (much) higher debt option of the two. If you're waiting for someone to talk you out of NYU, it won't happen, so just commit and have fun for the next three (plus) years. It's a great school and you should be proud.

why

[StillIll]

I actually think our friend here is leaning NYU. And kudos. Let NYU know about your scholarship increase and see what happens.


For the record, and with all respect for all of our fellow helpful and friendly TLSers, environmental PI may be an extremely ridiculously hard niche to crack in to, but I wouldn't abandon that interest. Maybe you can find your way in there. Or end up working for the ACLU or something cool like that. My impression is just that you're leaning NYU and I would do it, man. I'm in a similar sticky situation, and I am leaning towards the (much) higher debt option of the two. If you're waiting for someone to talk you out of NYU, it won't happen, so just commit and have fun for the next three (plus) years. It's a great school and you should be proud.

why

Why what. Why do I think he's leaning NYU?

[StillIll]

If you're asking why I told him not to abandon his environmental interests, I didn't tell him to plan on getting a job with them. But there's no reason he can't have them in the back of his mind while he does big law or whatver he ends up doing. I was talking to a lawyer just yesterday who graduated from the CCN ilk, did big law for a bit and now works for ACLU.

[rickgrimes69]

If you're asking why I told him not to abandon his environmental interests, I didn't tell him to plan on getting a job with them. But there's no reason he can't have them in the back of his mind while he does big law or whatver he ends up doing.

There's a ton of reasons. How about you go back and read the thread.

I was talking to a lawyer just yesterday who graduated from the CCN ilk, did big law for a bit and now works for ACLU.

And when did this boomer individual graduate from law school?

[StillIll]

If you're asking why I told him not to abandon his environmental interests, I didn't tell him to plan on getting a job with them. But there's no reason he can't have them in the back of his mind while he does big law or whatver he ends up doing.

There's a ton of reasons. How about you go back and read the thread.

I was talking to a lawyer just yesterday who graduated from the CCN ilk, did big law for a bit and now works for ACLU.

And when did this boomer individual graduate from law school?

I'm not sure why you need to come at this with such an incredibly smarmy attitude, but I've read the thread, I've been active in the thread. I said Duke earlier but it seems to me that his posts exhibit a pattern of coming more and more around to NYU, and looking for us to talk him out of it. As far as the environmental stuff, I'm not sure where you get that I'm telling him he'll have a career in environmental law available. Does he have to become a robot and abandon all of his interests when he enter biglaw? As long as he's pragmatic and does the job he gets paid to do why on earth can't he keep an eye out for rare opportunities that are in line with this interest? Who the fuck knows if such opportunites will ever surface. I'm not seeing the problem here.

[Presidentjlh]

Biglaw, from what I can tell, forces you into the area they want you to practice in. You specialize in that, hard to add to that specialization.

But I am an uninformed 0L, what do I know?

[StillIll]

Biglaw, from what I can tell, forces you into the area they want you to practice in. You specialize in that, hard to add to that specialization.

But I am an uninformed 0L, what do I know?

I understand this. Just think there's no reason to think "well, I'm speacialized in A, I'm no longer allowed to have interest in B".

[jbagelboy]

I actually think our friend here is leaning NYU. And kudos. Let NYU know about your scholarship increase and see what happens.

For the record, and with all respect for all of our fellow helpful and friendly TLSers, environmental PI may be an extremely ridiculously hard niche to crack in to, but I wouldn't abandon that interest. Maybe you can find your way in there. Or end up working for the ACLU or something cool like that. My impression is just that you're leaning NYU and I would do it, man. I'm in a similar sticky situation, and I am leaning towards the (much) higher debt option of the two. If you're waiting for someone to talk you out of NYU, it won't happen, so just commit and have fun for the next three (plus) years. It's a great school and you should be proud.

why

If you're asking why I told him not to abandon his environmental interests, I didn't tell him to plan on getting a job with them. But there's no reason he can't have them in the back of his mind while he does big law or whatver he ends up doing. I was talking to a lawyer just yesterday who graduated from the CCN ilk, did big law for a bit and now works for ACLU.

First, StillIll, your coterminal thread is addressing a substantially different decision. You are being advised to attend CLS over UCLA. Duke and UCLA have very different placement potential and national portability. They are not comparable alternatives to CCN. Whatever choice you make and whatever debt you choose to absorb has no bearing here.

Second, your posts illustrate several indications of what brings negative attention to us "0L's" here. I don't blame you since you are relatively fresh, and I don't mean to offend you. But once you lose track of the data and start basing your advise on arrant declaratives like "its a great school", "have fun for the next three years", "you should be proud", ect., you are undermining your position. As for the ACLU bit; I bet if you gun hard for environmental law journals, internships, firms, and contacts, you won't suddenly be able to swap to labor or civil rights, and if you apply broadly to both kinds of non-profit groups, you're diminishing your focus. I still believe OP could get a PI and LRAP-eligible position out of NYU, but they didn't throw out the name of a single environmental law firm or lobbyist group they would be interested in working for, nor did they defend the initiative in an significant way.

Third, I'm one of the bigger NYU advocates in general, but only so far as the data and tangible results can take me. Here, OP is not entirely committed to their PI goal, and would be happy to fall back on biglaw (or has at least accepted that as a more likely outcome). Both Duke and NYU feed into NYC. As for the late game transition plan, once you've worked at a large firm, if you DO wind up having PI-directed exit options, it will be more as a result of that firm and connections via clerking or the partners, and less the law school you attended 4-6 years prior (unless its HYS which is said to carry). So since Duke and NYU have similar outcomes in the most likely domain, and Duke increased their scholly again, I'm on board w/ Duke (not that I would blame OP for choosing NYU, but my vote has been cast).

[Presidentjlh]

Yeah, I think Duke's the right call. Less debt, and still provides enough employment opportunity for OP.

[rickgrimes69]

If you're asking why I told him not to abandon his environmental interests, I didn't tell him to plan on getting a job with them. But there's no reason he can't have them in the back of his mind while he does big law or whatver he ends up doing.

There's a ton of reasons. How about you go back and read the thread.

I was talking to a lawyer just yesterday who graduated from the CCN ilk, did big law for a bit and now works for ACLU.

And when did this boomer individual graduate from law school?

I'm not sure why you need to come at this with such an incredibly smarmy attitude, but I've read the thread, I've been active in the thread. I said Duke earlier but it seems to me that his posts exhibit a pattern of coming more and more around to NYU, and looking for us to talk him out of it. As far as the environmental stuff, I'm not sure where you get that I'm telling him he'll have a career in environmental law available. Does he have to become a robot and abandon all of his interests when he enter biglaw? As long as he's pragmatic and does the job he gets paid to do why on earth can't he keep an eye out for rare opportunities that are in line with this interest? Who the fuck knows if such opportunites will ever surface. I'm not seeing the problem here.

Because (1) if he's planning on Biglaw from the get-go, there's absolutely no reason for him to pay an extra $100k for NYU since he doesn't want to work in NYC, (2) going from Biglaw to environmental P.I. is a neigh-impossible pipe dream that will never happen, and (3) even if it does, it won't be dependent on whether he attends NYU or Duke since nobody cares where you went to school after your first job.

[StillIll]

I actually think our friend here is leaning NYU. And kudos. Let NYU know about your scholarship increase and see what happens.

For the record, and with all respect for all of our fellow helpful and friendly TLSers, environmental PI may be an extremely ridiculously hard niche to crack in to, but I wouldn't abandon that interest. Maybe you can find your way in there. Or end up working for the ACLU or something cool like that. My impression is just that you're leaning NYU and I would do it, man. I'm in a similar sticky situation, and I am leaning towards the (much) higher debt option of the two. If you're waiting for someone to talk you out of NYU, it won't happen, so just commit and have fun for the next three (plus) years. It's a great school and you should be proud.

why

If you're asking why I told him not to abandon his environmental interests, I didn't tell him to plan on getting a job with them. But there's no reason he can't have them in the back of his mind while he does big law or whatver he ends up doing. I was talking to a lawyer just yesterday who graduated from the CCN ilk, did big law for a bit and now works for ACLU.

First, StillIll, your coterminal thread is addressing a substantially different decision. You are being advised to attend CLS over UCLA. Duke and UCLA have very different placement potential and national portability. They are not comparable alternatives to CCN. Whatever choice you make and whatever debt you choose to absorb has no bearing here.

Second, your posts illustrate several indications of what brings negative attention to us "0L's" here. I don't blame you since you are relatively fresh, and I don't mean to offend you. But once you lose track of the data and start basing your advise on arrant declaratives like "its a great school", "have fun for the next three years", "you should be proud", ect., you are undermining your position. As for the ACLU bit; I bet if you gun hard for environmental law journals, internships, firms, and contacts, you won't suddenly be able to swap to labor or civil rights, and if you apply broadly to both kinds of non-profit groups, you're diminishing your focus. I still believe OP could get a PI and LRAP-eligible position out of NYU, but they didn't throw out the name of a single environmental law firm or lobbyist group they would be interested in working for, nor did they defend the initiative in an significant way.

Third, I'm one of the bigger NYU advocates in general, but only so far as the data and tangible results can take me. Here, OP is not entirely committed to their PI goal, and would be happy to fall back on biglaw (or has at least accepted that as a more likely outcome). Both Duke and NYU feed into NYC. As for the late game transition plan, once you've worked at a large firm, if you DO wind up having PI-directed exit options, it will be more as a result of that firm and connections via clerking or the partners, and less the law school you attended 4-6 years prior (unless its HYS which is said to carry). So since Duke and NYU have similar outcomes in the most likely domain, and Duke increased their scholly again, I'm on board w/ Duke (not that I would blame OP for choosing NYU, but my vote has been cast).

Jesus. "I'm facing a similar choice" = I'm trying to relate to the guy. As in, you're not in this alone. Yeah, maybe it's apples and oranges, but so what.. Re: great school, have fun, etc... I'm simply trying to be encouraging to a guy that's likely facing and incredibly taxing decision. I'm not basing my decision off of that... I though that should be obvious. I've just gotten the impression over the course of this thread that he's coming around more and more to attending NYU, which could be justified in its own right, and now I'm simply trying to be supportive. No matter how many stats, how much (legimate) evidence we present to him, we're not going to make this decision for him, and sometimes you just need to hear those words to become a little more sure with yourself and what not. I'm sorry if that's not appreciated around these parts.

Of course if he is still deliberating than nevermind. I said Duke earlier. Do what you want.

[jbagelboy]

Jesus. "I'm facing a similar choice" = I'm trying to relate to the guy. As in, you're not in this alone. Yeah, maybe it's apples and oranges, but so what.. Re: great school, have fun, etc... I'm simply trying to be encouraging to a guy that's likely facing and incredibly taxing decision. I'm not basing my decision off of that... I though that should be obvious. I've just gotten the impression over the course of this thread that he's coming around more and more to attending NYU, which could be justified in its own right, and now I'm simply trying to be supportive. No matter how many stats, how much (legimate) evidence we present to him, we're not going to make this decision for him, and sometimes you just need to hear those words to become a little more sure with yourself and what not. I'm sorry if that's not appreciated around these parts.

Of course if he is still deliberating than nevermind. I said Duke earlier. Do what you want.

Nah it's cool. Again, no offense intended. And of course, if I met this guy/gal in real life and they said they wanted to go to NYU, I wouldn't start listing LST/debt stats and make them feel badly about it. However, as far as the "support" is concerned, IMO, this is what your friends and family are for.. to support you and your decision. They will usually do so even if they personally have some disagreement or would make another decision themselves, because that is THEIR role. The positive impact of the anonymity provided by online forums is that we can challenge someone's position, their assumptions, and even their comfort, without really impacting them, so its best that we take a more probing and honest tone even if its not what we would say in person.

[StillIll]

Jesus. "I'm facing a similar choice" = I'm trying to relate to the guy. As in, you're not in this alone. Yeah, maybe it's apples and oranges, but so what.. Re: great school, have fun, etc... I'm simply trying to be encouraging to a guy that's likely facing and incredibly taxing decision. I'm not basing my decision off of that... I though that should be obvious. I've just gotten the impression over the course of this thread that he's coming around more and more to attending NYU, which could be justified in its own right, and now I'm simply trying to be supportive. No matter how many stats, how much (legimate) evidence we present to him, we're not going to make this decision for him, and sometimes you just need to hear those words to become a little more sure with yourself and what not. I'm sorry if that's not appreciated around these parts.

Of course if he is still deliberating than nevermind. I said Duke earlier. Do what you want.

Nah it's cool. Again, no offense intended. And of course, if I met this guy/gal in real life and they said they wanted to go to NYU, I wouldn't start listing LST/debt stats and make them feel badly about it. However, as far as the "support" is concerned, IMO, this is what your friends and family are for.. to support you and your decision. They will usually do so even if they personally have some disagreement or would make another decision themselves, because that is THEIR role. The positive impact of the anonymity provided by online forums is that we can challenge someone's position, their assumptions, and even their comfort, without really impacting them, so its best that we take a more probing and honest tone even if its not what we would say in person.

That's a fair point. I can totally see and respect that. By the way, I'll come clean: I had just come home from a night out (if you know what I mean) when I wrote that post. So that may have had something to do with it as well. Haha.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

By the way, I'll come clean: I had just come home from a night out (if you know what I mean) when I wrote that post. So that may have had something to do with it as well. Haha.

Tangent: Can we have a thread that you're only allowed to post in if you're drunk?

[Presidentjlh]

If that's the worst thing you post on TLS when drunk, you should consider yourself lucky.

[jbagelboy]

Jesus. "I'm facing a similar choice" = I'm trying to relate to the guy. As in, you're not in this alone. Yeah, maybe it's apples and oranges, but so what.. Re: great school, have fun, etc... I'm simply trying to be encouraging to a guy that's likely facing and incredibly taxing decision. I'm not basing my decision off of that... I though that should be obvious. I've just gotten the impression over the course of this thread that he's coming around more and more to attending NYU, which could be justified in its own right, and now I'm simply trying to be supportive. No matter how many stats, how much (legimate) evidence we present to him, we're not going to make this decision for him, and sometimes you just need to hear those words to become a little more sure with yourself and what not. I'm sorry if that's not appreciated around these parts.

Of course if he is still deliberating than nevermind. I said Duke earlier. Do what you want.

Nah it's cool. Again, no offense intended. And of course, if I met this guy/gal in real life and they said they wanted to go to NYU, I wouldn't start listing LST/debt stats and make them feel badly about it. However, as far as the "support" is concerned, IMO, this is what your friends and family are for.. to support you and your decision. They will usually do so even if they personally have some disagreement or would make another decision themselves, because that is THEIR role. The positive impact of the anonymity provided by online forums is that we can challenge someone's position, their assumptions, and even their comfort, without really impacting them, so its best that we take a more probing and honest tone even if its not what we would say in person.

That's a fair point. I can totally see and respect that. By the way, I'll come clean: I had just come home from a night out (if you know what I mean) when I wrote that post. So that may have had something to do with it as well. Haha.

Of course you were out. Didn't you just get into CLS? Congrats again man.

[fdo15]

I'm actually leaning more toward Duke than NYU. I've been doing some research and talking to some people about the whole environmental PI thing and it sounds like a huge long shot from either school. I'm thinking now that NYU gives me a very slight advantage for environmental PI, but that if I end up going for environmental PI it will be better to have much less debt because the odds are so high that I'll strike out. If I end up going for big law Duke with significantly less debt seems like the right choice, especially considering NYC isn't exactly my dream destination.

[Tekrul]

I think you're right to go Duke here considering their $ bump. (You may recall I was pro NYU here before duke upped their offer) Although I'm going to throw in as a last word - with your numbers, you can be a solid retake reapply into H, not out at YS, and can continue pursuing your environmental PI interests. I was under the impression you had a fire going for the PI and your eligible GPA / retakeable lsat make settling for biglaw unnecessary at this juncture. If you gave up the PI only because of the chances you'd have from these schools, you should be taking into consideration your retake potential to get into the schools you would take the risk from.

[fdo15]

I've considered it. The problem is that the best I ever did on a timed practice test was 171, and even if I got back to where I was and hit my high score on test day I wouldn't have a good shot at HYS. I don't think taking a year of my life to take a chance at getting a higher LSAT score so I would have a chance at getting into HYS so I would have a chance at getting environmental PI is very likely to work out for me in the long run. My guess is I would end up with another 169 or 170 and would be facing similar options a year from now.

[StillIll]

Duuuke