Schools likely to move into the T14 Forum

[muskies970]

Also, you have to remember that the USNWR methodology is seriously fucked up.

And what ranking system is better? Even ATL has MICH at #12 above NW and UT Austin... I'm not sure your point

[gnuwheels]

Michigan will drop out of the T14 eventually, even if it takes 10 years, so if TX remains consistent, it should enter.

Can you tell me where I should invest in right now too?

It's just like, my opinion, man.

But seriously, Michigan can't hold it's weight anymore. It's happening.

Opinion based off of? Reading a few posts on TLS and glancing at employment stats from one year *rolls eyes*

Opinions based off of being a student at Michigan, maybe?

[smaug_]

I can't believe there is a semblance of serious discussion going on here. Y'all should be ashamed.

[hephaestus]

I can't believe there is a semblance of serious discussion going on here. Y'all should be ashamed.

This. I would have thought "None. /thread" would have been the end of this conversation.

[rad lulz]

I can't believe there is a semblance of serious discussion going on here. Y'all should be ashamed.

This. I would have thought "None Doesn't matter. /thread" would have been the end of this conversation.

Fixed dood

[PRgradBYU]

1. UCI
2. Yale
3. Harvard
4. Stanford
5. Columbia
6. NYU
7. UPENN
8. Northwestern
9. Duke
10. Cornell
11. UVA
12. Michigan


The rest don't matter

fixed that for you

I'm hoping UT someday takes GULC's place in the T14 (or would it be the T15 then?). GULC is pumping out way too many students.

[Real Madrid]

How long can Berkeley withstand the worst incoming numbers of T14 and non-top 10 employment prospects? I have no idea what keeps that nuthouse running.

Berkeley has some of the best employment numbers outside of the T6, retard.

[Br3v]

GULC

[BigZuck]

How long can Berkeley withstand the worst incoming numbers of T14 and non-top 10 employment prospects? I have no idea what keeps that nuthouse running.

Berkeley has some of the best employment numbers outside of the T6, retard.

Sweet. More MVP(B) defensiveness.

So glad I'm not smart enough to go to one of those schools, my poor little butt wouldn't be able to take all the hurting.

[TheNextAmendment]

I just don't get why Yale is T14...they have like what 200 chairs in their library?

[txdude45]

I just don't get why Yale is T14...they have like what 200 chairs in their library?

I've been in their dining hall. It serves the worst food on campus. TTT.

[sublime]

..

[sinfiery]

NU is riding its relative employment to ranking dominance from last year that completely disappeared this year so it may just be a matter of time.

But, way too many NU TLSers, people are afraid.

[BigZuck]

I don't see anyway that UT (or UCLA or whatever) overtakes Michigan or GULC or whatever school people think might drop out of the T14. Especially if factoring prestigious employment (big law+clerkships) into the equation is what supposedly makes those schools drop. Michigan/GULC are still better in that regard and I don't see that changing.

[utlaw2007]

Michigan will drop out of the T14 eventually, even if it takes 10 years, so if TX remains consistent, it should enter.

I'm down for a t13 with UT at 13

I'm down with this assessment, as well.

[jbagelboy]

NU is riding its relative employment to ranking dominance from last year that completely disappeared this year so it may just be a matter of time.

But, way too many NU TLSers, people are afraid.

Yea I was surprised by NUs LST numbers after all the hype

[romothesavior]

What a novel and rarely discussed topic. I look forward to the prognosticators ITT shedding insight on this very important subject so we know where the DROVES will head next.

[utlaw2007]

I don't see anyway that UT (or UCLA or whatever) overtakes Michigan or GULC or whatever school people think might drop out of the T14. Especially if factoring prestigious employment (big law+clerkships) into the equation is what supposedly makes those schools drop. Michigan/GULC are still better in that regard and I don't see that changing.

I see it changing, not because I'm a heavily biased UT Law alumnus, but because I'm a heavily biased native Houstonian.

In seriousness, Houston's economy is just going to get bigger and bigger. People underestimate the Port of Houston. It generates billions of dollars in revenue for the city and its businesses. And this aspect of business is growing, especially as our Hispanic population grows. A significant amount of business between the US and Latin/South America goes through the Port of Houston. This is in addition to all of the Houston based business that does business with Latin/South America. It is believable that more prominent law firms will increase their presence down here, just as Sidley Austin did, creating more biglaw jobs. If that happens, I don't see why UT, being the most dominant feeder into the Houston biglaw legal market, won't rise in prestige and presence, resulting in a rise in rankings. I think it is feasible, at least.

[untar614]

NU is riding its relative employment to ranking dominance from last year that completely disappeared this year so it may just be a matter of time.

But, way too many NU TLSers, people are afraid.

Yea I was surprised by NUs LST numbers after all the hype

It's hard to get a clear picture of where these schools really stand given that 2011 is the first year for which we've had much clearer employment data. And most schools did substantially worse in 2011 than in 2012 - Michigan and Cornell looked god-awful for 2011. Cornell made a huge jump up for 2012, while Michigan made a more modest gain. Northwestern, otoh, declined in their employment. UChicago, like Cornell, also made a big jump from 2011 to 2012. With only 2 years of data, it's really hard to draw any serious conclusions.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

How long can Berkeley withstand the worst incoming numbers of T14 and non-top 10 employment prospects? I have no idea what keeps that nuthouse running.

Berkeley has some of the best employment numbers outside of the T6, retard.

Maybe and maybe not. My critieron was per-capita placement at elite firms across the country. In those statistics, while Berkeley has historically beat the pants off nearly everyone on the West Coast, it underperforms, at the very least, MVP and Duke, everywhere else in the country. Those four beat Berkeley, using that parameter, in at least 20 of the top 25 legal markets.

The caveat, of course, is that placement statistics are not the same thing as opportunity--they don't show us what graduates might have had the opportunity to do if they had so chosen. And that becomes a particularly important distinction with Berkeley, which has had a qualitative reputaiton for grads who never intended to leave the West Coast, and quantitative statistics suggesting at least two-thirds stay in CA. This renders it among the most "niche" of the T14, and it also ignores a substantial PI focus.

Every school will, of course, place better in any statistic you use in certain markets than certain others. I would just be extraordinarily skeptical, if I were considering Berkeley, that the placement numbers in so many different markets were behind, at minimum, ten other schools. But then again, I could be biased because a) I never applied to Berkeley, b) I live on the East Coast and c) I'm not sure where I want to practice upon graduation (as many Berkeley gradutes are, it seems).

[Big Dog]

Isn't the "T-14" the 14 schools that have been in the top 10 at some point since USNWR established ranking? So a school would need to make the "top 10" in order to really be considered in the same level...

Correct. For a new LS to appear (Texas, Vandy, UCLA?), it would have to jump over at least four current law schools.

btw: IFF that ever happens, the T-14 will then become the T-15.

[jbagelboy]

How long can Berkeley withstand the worst incoming numbers of T14 and non-top 10 employment prospects? I have no idea what keeps that nuthouse running.

Berkeley has some of the best employment numbers outside of the T6, retard.

Maybe and maybe not. My critieron was per-capita placement at elite firms across the country. In those statistics, while Berkeley has historically beat the pants off nearly everyone on the West Coast, it underperforms, at the very least, MVP and Duke, everywhere else in the country. Those four beat Berkeley, using that parameter, in at least 20 of the top 25 legal markets.

The caveat, of course, is that placement statistics are not the same thing as opportunity--they don't show us what graduates might have had the opportunity to do if they had so chosen. And that becomes a particularly important distinction with Berkeley, which has had a qualitative reputaiton for grads who never intended to leave the West Coast, and quantitative statistics suggesting at least two-thirds stay in CA. This renders it among the most "niche" of the T14, and it also ignores a substantial PI focus.

Every school will, of course, place better in any statistic you use in certain markets than certain others. I would just be extraordinarily skeptical, if I were considering Berkeley, that the placement numbers in so many different markets were behind, at minimum, ten other schools. But then again, I could be biased because a) I never applied to Berkeley, b) I live on the East Coast and c) I'm not sure where I want to practice upon graduation (as many Berkeley gradutes are, it seems).

I think you are clearly biased just as many CA observers will indicate a clear bias. Most people who go to Berkeley intend to work on the west coast, specifically California. Thus, not only will its employment numbers will ebb and sway with the CA market, but you hit the nail on the head with it being a niche school. Now Berkeley grads DO place nationally, but it does not surprise me that they are weaker in midwest and east coast markets than MVP. If someone told me they wanted DC or NYC biglaw, I would say take Penn or UVA over Cal - naturally. It doesn't make Cal a weaker law school, though, considering their CA placement. Correspondingly, Berkeley (along with Stanford, the more elite school) dominates the CA legal market and does great in Seattle too.

[Big Dog]

Berkeley, which has had a qualitative reputaiton for grads who never intended to leave the West Coast, and quantitative statistics suggesting at least two-thirds stay in CA.

Couldn't you make the same niche claim about the same amount of Penn grads who hang around Philly or NYC, or NYU/CLS grads who never leave NYC?

[jcg]

Above The Law might have their rankings change because it's not as based on keeping the status quo, as is usnews. Usnews provides terrible rankings with their 40% "quality assessment" idea. I would be going to law school to get a job as a lawyer, not to impress the dean at another school. ATL provides a better ranking system. It's not flawless, but it's better than usnews.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Berkeley, which has had a qualitative reputaiton for grads who never intended to leave the West Coast, and quantitative statistics suggesting at least two-thirds stay in CA.

Couldn't you make the same niche claim about the same amount of Penn grads who hang around Philly or NYC, or NYU/CLS grads who never leave NYC?

But it's not niche if it's on the east coast!!