Chicago (45k) vs NYU (sticker) vs NU (150k) Forum

[bk1]

Haha, i thought the same thing about the wary NU posters

Like I said in my OP, my geographical preferences are NYC > Chicago/DC > West Coast > South. I want to do a clerkship because I'm really interested in con law and I think it would not only pad the resume but also be a generally beneficial experience (networking, working closely with a judge, the learning aspect). So, it's certainly something I would love to have the opportunity to do for a year or two, and if I can pull the grades for it I'll apply widely. At the same time, I'm not banking on it, just like I'm not counting on scoring any of my top choice positions after law school. Legal aid and BigLaw are both things I could stomach for a few years, although I hope it's not where I'll be.

You don't seem very sure what you want to do outside of things that are very difficult to get. IAFG is right that NU is not nearly as helpful as other schools for getting people into PI, but the type of PI that I imagine NYU helping place you in (e.g. legal NPOs like legal aid, PDs offices, etc) are not really the type of thing that you seem very interested in. You seem interested in super competitive stuff that's going to be a long haul from either NU or NYU. Since you don't seem to want the sort of thing I see NYU being a boon for, I personally wouldn't take out a lot more for NYU (granted of course I am a bit biased since I attend NU).

[untar614]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying NYU would be more burdensome due to the debt, or that going to NU would be more burdensome because I'd have to find a PI job?

Sorry, that wasn't clear. I was saying that if you would take biglaw as the backup plan, then NYU would be more burdensome since you would have all that debt.

[Samara]

Yeah, need moar info. Why do you want a clerkship? Where do you want to work? What are your backups if you don't get into the very competitive positions you want? Is biglaw something you could stomach for a few years?

I like how a bunch of posters immediately say NU for free, no question, such an easy decision, but the people actually attending NU are a bit more trepidatious.

Haha, i thought the same thing about the wary NU posters

Like I said in my OP, my geographical preferences are NYC > Chicago/DC > West Coast > South. I want to do a clerkship because I'm really interested in con law and I think it would not only pad the resume but also be a generally beneficial experience (networking, working closely with a judge, the learning aspect). So, it's certainly something I would love to have the opportunity to do for a year or two, and if I can pull the grades for it I'll apply widely. At the same time, I'm not banking on it, just like I'm not counting on scoring any of my top choice positions after law school. Legal aid and BigLaw are both things I could stomach for a few years, although I hope it's not where I'll be.

Oops, missed the geography stuff in the OP. It sounds like you aren't dead set on any one thing and you aren't wanting to clerk for any specific for personal reason. Everybody wants to clerk for the resume and experience, but you don't have a specific goal that requires it, like becoming a litigator at a top firm, AUSA, etc.

Honestly, what you are interested in doesn't have a particularly strong connection to legal practice. Have you tried to get work in this area without law school?

I think NU is credited because of your generalized interest in legal work. Having the lower (but still substantial) debt will give you greater freedom, more so than the advantages of NYU. And a lot of the jobs in the areas you describe wouldn't necessarily qualify for LRAP, such as lobbying/political positions, etc.

[Elston Gunn]

Honestly, what you are interested in doesn't have a particularly strong connection to legal practice. Have you tried to get work in this area without law school?

[lsacqueen]

Honestly, what you are interested in doesn't have a particularly strong connection to legal practice. Have you tried to get work in this area without law school?

No, I haven't. As a side note, I also applied to Columbia SIPA for a Masters in International Affairs and got in, but up till now I was pretty dead set on law school. I know I am interested in law and would genuinely enjoy studying it (I've taken a few law classes at my undergrad institution). I feel like law school would be useful for landing certain jobs, as it provides skills/knowledge that can't be obtained through a Masters degree. The jobs I am interested in are extremely competitive though, and I don't stand a chance of getting them as I'm under qualified now.

[lsacqueen]

Haha, i thought the same thing about the wary NU posters

Like I said in my OP, my geographical preferences are NYC > Chicago/DC > West Coast > South. I want to do a clerkship because I'm really interested in con law and I think it would not only pad the resume but also be a generally beneficial experience (networking, working closely with a judge, the learning aspect). So, it's certainly something I would love to have the opportunity to do for a year or two, and if I can pull the grades for it I'll apply widely. At the same time, I'm not banking on it, just like I'm not counting on scoring any of my top choice positions after law school. Legal aid and BigLaw are both things I could stomach for a few years, although I hope it's not where I'll be.

You don't seem very sure what you want to do outside of things that are very difficult to get. IAFG is right that NU is not nearly as helpful as other schools for getting people into PI, but the type of PI that I imagine NYU helping place you in (e.g. legal NPOs like legal aid, PDs offices, etc) are not really the type of thing that you seem very interested in. You seem interested in super competitive stuff that's going to be a long haul from either NU or NYU. Since you don't seem to want the sort of thing I see NYU being a boon for, I personally wouldn't take out a lot more for NYU (granted of course I am a bit biased since I attend NU).

Right, that makes sense. Do you have any reason to believe that NYU wouldn't be advantageous on getting those super competitive PI/gov jobs? Why are HYS seen as the only schools in which landing those options is a tangible possibility?

[Samara]

No, I haven't. As a side note, I also applied to Columbia SIPA for a Masters in International Affairs and got in, but up till now I was pretty dead set on law school. I know I am interested in law and would genuinely enjoy studying it (I've taken a few law classes at my undergrad institution). I feel like law school would be useful for landing certain jobs, as it provides skills/knowledge that can't be obtained through a Masters degree. The jobs I am interested in are extremely competitive though, and I don't stand a chance of getting them as I'm under qualified now.

I would seriously consider the master's program. How much would that cost? What do their grads go on to do? Law school will always be available later and some work experience might net you better scholarships.

As someone who worked in policy before law school, albeit not international and on a different scale, I doubt law school would teach you much you couldn't learn on the job, in a master's program or elsewhere. And there are lots of great jobs available that don't need a law degree.

All that isn't necessarily to say that you shouldn't go to law school, but you should seriously consider alternative options that cost much less time and money, yet can get you to the same place. And remember that law school will always be there.

[09042014]

I'm hoping to get a federal clerkship after law school,

check out the numbers on the ABA reports for federal clerkships -- something NU doesn't place as well as Chicago or NYU.

1) You shouldn't base your school choice on a 1 year temporary job (aka a clerkship). And even at NYU a fed clerkship requires good grades.

2) NU and NYU has historically both had similarish clerkship numbers. 2012 there was a big gap but that's random noise in the data. I know a couple of Magna students at NU 2012 who didn't even apply for clerkships. The idea that the number who go into a clerkship represents every student who could, is stupid. Either way, your chances aren't great anyway.

I wouldn't factor in clerkships at all.

[09042014]

Haha, i thought the same thing about the wary NU posters

Like I said in my OP, my geographical preferences are NYC > Chicago/DC > West Coast > South. I want to do a clerkship because I'm really interested in con law and I think it would not only pad the resume but also be a generally beneficial experience (networking, working closely with a judge, the learning aspect). So, it's certainly something I would love to have the opportunity to do for a year or two, and if I can pull the grades for it I'll apply widely. At the same time, I'm not banking on it, just like I'm not counting on scoring any of my top choice positions after law school. Legal aid and BigLaw are both things I could stomach for a few years, although I hope it's not where I'll be.

You don't seem very sure what you want to do outside of things that are very difficult to get. IAFG is right that NU is not nearly as helpful as other schools for getting people into PI, but the type of PI that I imagine NYU helping place you in (e.g. legal NPOs like legal aid, PDs offices, etc) are not really the type of thing that you seem very interested in. You seem interested in super competitive stuff that's going to be a long haul from either NU or NYU. Since you don't seem to want the sort of thing I see NYU being a boon for, I personally wouldn't take out a lot more for NYU (granted of course I am a bit biased since I attend NU).

Also, OP seems to gunning for government work. That's not really PI, it's got a totally different hiring track.

NYU isn't a federal government powerhouse, it's ABA data shows more placement than NU, but it also shows over 13% of the class is in school funded positions, which are often PI or government. So it's very likely a bunch of their PI placement or Gov placement is just unpaid internships. I wouldn't pay an extra 150K for a one year stipend for an internship.

Also, everyone in this thread is assuming NYU's career services is amazing. I really fucking doubt it. I bet they are just as shitty at Northwesterns.

The problem with pi/gov, is that there are no jobs.

If you will literally not to anything but PI/gov, I'd go to NYU. But there is a strong chance at either school that you'll fail to get PI or gov (At least off the bat) and being able to afford to take a private job for a couple years and not drown in debt is big.

I think I'd take NU if you think you might do private sector practice even a little bit.

[lsacqueen]

No, I haven't. As a side note, I also applied to Columbia SIPA for a Masters in International Affairs and got in, but up till now I was pretty dead set on law school. I know I am interested in law and would genuinely enjoy studying it (I've taken a few law classes at my undergrad institution). I feel like law school would be useful for landing certain jobs, as it provides skills/knowledge that can't be obtained through a Masters degree. The jobs I am interested in are extremely competitive though, and I don't stand a chance of getting them as I'm under qualified now.

I would seriously consider the master's program. How much would that cost? What do their grads go on to do? Law school will always be available later and some work experience might net you better scholarships.

As someone who worked in policy before law school, albeit not international and on a different scale, I doubt law school would teach you much you couldn't learn on the job, in a master's program or elsewhere. And there are lots of great jobs available that don't need a law degree.

All that isn't necessarily to say that you shouldn't go to law school, but you should seriously consider alternative options that cost much less time and money, yet can get you to the same place. And remember that law school will always be there.

The COA for Columbia SIPA would be substantially less than COA for law school at UChicago or NYU because the masters program is 2 years, and including living it should cost just over 70k a year --> 140k a year. I would be paying sticker unfortunately.. I have looked at the employment stats for the last few years and people seem to go into diverse fields and jobs in government, foreign government, nonprofit sector, and corporate. Also a substantial number go on to pursue higher education (whether that means they were unsuccessful getting work, Idk)

All of you on here have given me a lot to think about and now I am definitely considering grad school again.

[09042014]

http://careers.state.gov/officer#.UVs1y1eNBJw


They use exams to get employees, and you are obviously good at standardized tests.

[lsacqueen]

http://careers.state.gov/officer#.UVs1y1eNBJw


They use exams to get employees, and you are obviously good at standardized tests.

Actually I failed this once already. Did great on everything except I bombed the section about work experience, cause that's something you can't really bullshit your way through.

[untar614]

No, I haven't. As a side note, I also applied to Columbia SIPA for a Masters in International Affairs and got in, but up till now I was pretty dead set on law school. I know I am interested in law and would genuinely enjoy studying it (I've taken a few law classes at my undergrad institution). I feel like law school would be useful for landing certain jobs, as it provides skills/knowledge that can't be obtained through a Masters degree. The jobs I am interested in are extremely competitive though, and I don't stand a chance of getting them as I'm under qualified now.

I would seriously consider the master's program. How much would that cost? What do their grads go on to do? Law school will always be available later and some work experience might net you better scholarships.

As someone who worked in policy before law school, albeit not international and on a different scale, I doubt law school would teach you much you couldn't learn on the job, in a master's program or elsewhere. And there are lots of great jobs available that don't need a law degree.

All that isn't necessarily to say that you shouldn't go to law school, but you should seriously consider alternative options that cost much less time and money, yet can get you to the same place. And remember that law school will always be there.

The COA for Columbia SIPA would be substantially less than COA for law school at UChicago or NYU because the masters program is 2 years, and including living it should cost just over 70k a year --> 140k a year. I would be paying sticker unfortunately.. I have looked at the employment stats for the last few years and people seem to go into diverse fields and jobs in government, foreign government, nonprofit sector, and corporate. Also a substantial number go on to pursue higher education (whether that means they were unsuccessful getting work, Idk)

All of you on here have given me a lot to think about and now I am definitely considering grad school again.

Just make sure you check into the job outcomes well. For stuff like this, some of em are good, and some are BS cashgrabs for the school. I know if you were to apply to Columbia's med school and be rejected, you'd get a bunch of ad mail from them for a masters in nutritional science or something,which is a cash grab that won't do crap for you other than some classes to add to a med school app that you could have done at a local college for 1/10th the price.

[lsacqueen]

[/quote]
Just make sure you check into the job outcomes well. For stuff like this, some of em are good, and some are BS cashgrabs for the school. I know if you were to apply to Columbia's med school and be rejected, you'd get a bunch of ad mail from them for a masters in nutritional science or something,which is a cash grab that won't do crap for you other than some classes to add to a med school app that you could have done at a local college for 1/10th the price.[/quote]

I'm sort of worried this is the case for SIPA, which I hear is not well-respected at Columbia or among other grad schools like Harvard Kennedy School, Georgetown's MSFS, or Princeton Woodrow Wilson School. I've been advised to forget SIPA because it's a cash cow that doesn't produce good jobs for people who don't have connections to start with.

[lsacqueen]

Thanks so much for all the help you guys, my fingers are shaking as I'm typing this, but I just got into Yale!!! This is unbelievable - it really makes my government legal job ambitions a possibility.

[untar614]

Thanks so much for all the help you guys, my fingers are shaking as I'm typing this, but I just got into Yale!!! This is unbelievable - it really makes my government legal job ambitions a possibility.

Wow, congrats! Makes everything a lot easier, haha.

[WhiskeynCoke]

Gtfo... Say hello to your dreams. Congrats! (We all hate you now). LOL