Duke vs. Mich at equal $$ Forum

[BigZuck]

I just read back a bit though and saw that OP said he is against life in a big city so I can now see why NU isn't being talked about as much.

Basically this.

Although, also because of the west coast bias. It seems people feel Mich really does have a larger alumni base in LA which has a non-negligible impact on making it back out west.

How much this really matters when it comes to the brass tacks of hiring, I have absolutely no idea outside of anecdotes.

Right now Michigan is having a comparatively harder time placing their grads period. The statistics should trump the anecdotes I think but maybe I'm wrong.

[Rahviveh]

I just read back a bit though and saw that OP said he is against life in a big city so I can now see why NU isn't being talked about as much.

Basically this.

Although, also because of the west coast bias. It seems people feel Mich really does have a larger alumni base in LA which has a non-negligible impact on making it back out west.

How much this really matters when it comes to the brass tacks of hiring, I have absolutely no idea outside of anecdotes.

Right now Michigan is having a comparatively harder time placing their grads period. The statistics should trump the anecdotes I think but maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah, if the money's equal I can't imagine picking Michigan right now. Sure, the statistics could be better going forward and there's probably self-selection in play, but why risk your future on it if you have other options?

[fallingup]

Sorry but in what world are the biglaw prospects better out of Michigan than Duke? I think your decision is between Northwestern and Duke here.

I suggest the OP look very hard at the employment numbers coming out of Michigan. I got into Michigan this cycle and was elated at first, but then I saw the numbers and started to get REAL worried. I am also looking at West Coast biglaw FWIW.

Check out this thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206368

Class of 2012 Employment Data

School: Employed in firms of 100+ attorneys + federal clerkships = Total. Numbers in parentheses indicate change from 2011.

Duke: 51.1(+6.2) + 12.9(+1.8 ) = 64(+8)
UVA: 47.8(+9.6) + 14.3(+3.7) = 62.1(+13.3)
Mich: 43.3(+9.3) + 8.5(+2.1) = 51.8(+11.4)

Then there is the oft-discussed NLJ 250 placement ranking (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... tatistics/):

Northwestern at #5 with 51.43% of 2012 grads placed at the 250 largest US law firms.
Duke at #7 with 48.42%
Michigan at #12 with a frightening 38.4%...

People often dismiss the NLJ 250 ranking because Yale is #14, but OP, you aren't going to Yale, so you're not going to have the special prospects that non-biglaw Yale grads have.

[jbagelboy]

Anything change if I now throw in Northwestern with 90k?

everything. go NU

[megagnarley]

Sorry but in what world are the biglaw prospects better out of Michigan than Duke? I think your decision is between Northwestern and Duke here.

I suggest the OP look very hard at the employment numbers coming out of Michigan. I got into Michigan this cycle and was elated at first, but then I saw the numbers and started to get REAL worried. I am also looking at West Coast biglaw FWIW.

Check out this thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206368

Class of 2012 Employment Data

School: Employed in firms of 100+ attorneys + federal clerkships = Total. Numbers in parentheses indicate change from 2011.

Duke: 51.1(+6.2) + 12.9(+1.8 ) = 64(+8)
UVA: 47.8(+9.6) + 14.3(+3.7) = 62.1(+13.3)
Mich: 43.3(+9.3) + 8.5(+2.1) = 51.8(+11.4)

Then there is the oft-discussed NLJ 250 placement ranking (http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/20 ... tatistics/):

Northwestern at #5 with 51.43% of 2012 grads placed at the 250 largest US law firms.
Duke at #7 with 48.42%
Michigan at #12 with a frightening 38.4%...

People often dismiss the NLJ 250 ranking because Yale is #14, but OP, you aren't going to Yale, so you're not going to have the special prospects that non-biglaw Yale grads have.

This is credited. And it's a very good point. The only point of contention is about being able to make it back to the west coast. I would take NY in a pinch but would much prefer LA and Duke placed only 12% of its 2011 class out west (biglaw and other). I know that placement =/= placement ability but that is still a frighteningly small number for someone who would very much like to make it back.

And like I stated before, Michigan's LRAP is non-negligibly MUCH stronger than both other schools.

I have no dog in this fight and I think you guys are giving fantastic input. I am just playing devil's advocate here to make sure some points don't get overlooked.

[BigZuck]

What percentage did Michigan place into CA?

Someone (Regulus?) did an analysis of what percentage non-S and B t14 schools place into CA. If I remember correctly the average was like 10 percent so if Duke really is 12% then that would be above average.*

*disclaimer- needs source

[fallingup]

So you're saying you would take a 10% lower chance of getting a good job if it meant you could have a 0-5% higher chance of getting back to California? Why not just go to UCLA if that's what your priorities are? Lol.

[BigZuck]

So you're saying you would take a 10% lower chance of getting a good job if it meant you could have a 0-5% higher chance of getting back to California? Why not just go to UCLA if that's what your priorities are? Lol.

Isn't it a 17% lower chance of getting biglaw/clerkship and a 50% greater chance of getting back to CA?

[fallingup]

So you're saying you would take a 10% lower chance of getting a good job if it meant you could have a 0-5% higher chance of getting back to California? Why not just go to UCLA if that's what your priorities are? Lol.

Isn't it a 17% lower chance of getting biglaw/clerkship and a 50% greater chance of getting back to CA?

No, I was saying Michigan is a 10% lower chance of getting a good job and, as the OP perceives it, Michigan has a 0-5% higher chance of sending him/her back to CA. I therefore concluded, jokingly, that the OP should just go to UCLA since he/she prioritizes location over job prospects. It's a joke because UCLA's job prospects suck.

[quakeroats]

I don't feel like finding them, but if you dig into my prior posts you'll get a laundry list of reasons to stay away from Michigan. The biggest reason people still pick Michigan over other schools is its USNWR ranking. Every other metric you'll find points in the opposite direction. Northwestern and Duke are both fine options. Both put you in great shape to get a job after graduation (if for slightly different reasons). Michigan isn't even close unless you're looking for work in Detroit.

[FlightoftheEarls]

I don't feel like finding them, but if you dig into my prior posts you'll get a laundry list of reasons to stay away from Michigan. The biggest reason people still pick Michigan over other schools is its USNWR ranking. Every other metric you'll find points in the opposite direction. Northwestern and Duke are both fine options. Both put you in great shape to get a job after graduation (if for slightly different reasons). Michigan isn't even close unless you're looking for work in Detroit.

Oh, this again. Should be fun.