Before You Post Forum

[sinfiery]

Indeed. There is more to this decision than just financial considerations.

And these don't always fall in favor against attending law school.

[rad lulz]

I see what cooldude is trying to do but I don't really think this checklist is very helpful. There are just too many variables at play to break it down into something so simple, and I really don't think all non-T14s are full ride or bust. I also think there are some schools that are truly never worth attending, even for free.

Perhaps the biggest thing this checklist ignores completely is geography. If you can't get into a top school, you should go to one of the really strong quasi-national or regional schools at a reasonable cost. For example, a kid from Columbus with strong connections is probably making an okay choice going to tOSU and dropping 25k per year. If I'm him, I'd much rather 75k-100k on tOSU than go to some random ass place across the country on a full ride. Keep in mind that a full ride still means 15-20k per year in COL, fees, books, and (sometimes) tuition increases.

You've gone soft bro. I'd never drop $100k on tOSU (68% LST score, 18.3% large firm + fed clerkship).

I haven't gone soft, I think you've just gone off the deep end. If anything, I'm even more debt-averse than before. I probably wouldn't pay sticker anywhere anymore.

For someone with strong ties, the local flagship T1 school is usually not a bad bet with a big scholarship. 100k debt is probably on the extreme high end of what I'd find acceptable for a school like tOSU (which was just an example), but 75k-100k debt is really not awful with IBR, and doesn't take biglaw to pay it off in a reasonable amount of time.

I'd hit OSU for $75k

[cooldude87]

Forget what I said earlier, new guidelines

If you get into HYS, go
If not don't

[nebula666]

Forget what I said earlier, new guidelines

If you get into HYS, go
If not don't

aren't you going to Creighton?

lol wut

[Ben Franklin]

LOL @ rampant TLS snobbery. You morons don't realize that a majority of lawyers in this country DIDN'T go to a T-14 school, yet do just fine for themselves. Some people were meant to be lawyers, some weren't. A majority of the snobs on here are just bitter. I know plenty of attorneys who scored sub-160 on the LSAT, had a sub 3.5 GPA, and still make a very healthy living after graduating from a "non-top law school". If you have game, you will be fine.

[RELIC]

If you have game, you will be fine.

Define "game". What is it? Let me guess, you have it?

[Ben Franklin]

If you have game, you will be fine.

Define "game". What is it? Let me guess, you have it?

If you need to ask, you don't have it.

[biznardos]

If you have game, you will be fine.

Define "game". What is it? Let me guess, you have it?

If you need to ask, you don't have it.

Kinda like a ZJ?

[052220151]

LOL @ rampant TLS snobbery. You morons don't realize that a majority of lawyers in this country DIDN'T go to a T-14 school, yet do just fine for themselves. Some people were meant to be lawyers, some weren't. A majority of the snobs on here are just bitter. I know plenty of attorneys who scored sub-160 on the LSAT, had a sub 3.5 GPA, and still make a very healthy living after graduating from a "non-top law school". If you have game, you will be fine.

Why did you dig up this dead, month old shit thread to give us your TTT argument?

[timbs4339]

Is anyone else seeing an uptick in these "ZOMG you elitists just don't understtttttand why people would pay T14 prices to make 40K a year" trolls?

[A. Nony Mouse]

They've committed to their non-T14 and now feel an investment in debunking TLS's pragmatism realism snobbery to justify their decision?

(And I eyeroll as someone who went to a lower T1. At sticker.)

[rad lulz]

,

[Myself]

.

[Myself]

.

[romothesavior]

LOL @ rampant TLS snobbery. You morons don't realize that a majority of lawyers in this country DIDN'T go to a T-14 school, yet do just fine for themselves. Some people were meant to be lawyers, some weren't. A majority of the snobs on here are just bitter. I know plenty of attorneys who scored sub-160 on the LSAT, had a sub 3.5 GPA, and still make a very healthy living after graduating from a "non-top law school". If you have game, you will be fine.

Cool brah.

[Tiago Splitter]

If you have game, you will be fine.

Define "game". What is it? Let me guess, you have it?

If you need to ask, you don't have it.

Kinda like a ZJ?

LOL

[Myself]

.

[boblawlob]

LOL @ rampant TLS snobbery. You morons don't realize that a majority of lawyers in this country DIDN'T go to a T-14 school, yet do just fine for themselves. Some people were meant to be lawyers, some weren't. A majority of the snobs on here are just bitter. I know plenty of attorneys who scored sub-160 on the LSAT, had a sub 3.5 GPA, and still make a very healthy living after graduating from a "non-top law school". If you have game, you will be fine.

I'm not bound for T14 myself, but I think TLS means well when they say "T14 or bust/Retake, ED UVA." They are just simply giving people advice based on statistical information. Of course there are plenty of people outside of T14 even in Tiers 3/4 that have great jobs. But those people were a different breed of person who had some sort of "it" factor to get such a job. When you ask TLS for advice, they don't know who you are and so they can only give you advice based on statistics and trends.

A little snobbery though? Probably. Who wouldn't be at that position?

[Gunnar Stahl]

LOL @ rampant TLS snobbery. You morons don't realize that a majority of lawyers in this country DIDN'T go to a T-14 school, yet do just fine for themselves. Some people were meant to be lawyers, some weren't. A majority of the snobs on here are just bitter. I know plenty of attorneys who scored sub-160 on the LSAT, had a sub 3.5 GPA, and still make a very healthy living after graduating from a "non-top law school". If you have game, you will be fine.

Cool brah.

[NYstate]

LOL @ rampant TLS snobbery. You morons don't realize that a majority of lawyers in this country DIDN'T go to a T-14 school, yet do just fine for themselves. Some people were meant to be lawyers, some weren't. A majority of the snobs on here are just bitter. I know plenty of attorneys who scored sub-160 on the LSAT, had a sub 3.5 GPA, and still make a very healthy living after graduating from a "non-top law school". If you have game, you will be fine.

I'm not bound for T14 myself, but I think TLS means well when they say "T14 or bust/Retake, ED UVA." They are just simply giving people advice based on statistical information. Of course there are plenty of people outside of T14 even in Tiers 3/4 that have great jobs. But those people were a different breed of person who had some sort of "it" factor to get such a job. When you ask TLS for advice, they don't know who you are and so they can only give you advice based on statistics and trends.

A little snobbery though? Probably. Who wouldn't be at that position?

No no no. A fucking little bit of "it" is not getting people jobs from tiers3/4 at least not at any level of repaying how much it costs. The problem is paying what it costs to attend these schools and fighting this crazy misperception created by years of the schools lying about employment statistics. I don't want people to become debt slaves from any school.

The amount of misinformation about law is still at an insanely high level.

[Myself]

.

[timbs4339]

LOL @ rampant TLS snobbery. You morons don't realize that a majority of lawyers in this country DIDN'T go to a T-14 school, yet do just fine for themselves. Some people were meant to be lawyers, some weren't. A majority of the snobs on here are just bitter. I know plenty of attorneys who scored sub-160 on the LSAT, had a sub 3.5 GPA, and still make a very healthy living after graduating from a "non-top law school". If you have game, you will be fine.

I'm not bound for T14 myself, but I think TLS means well when they say "T14 or bust/Retake, ED UVA." They are just simply giving people advice based on statistical information. Of course there are plenty of people outside of T14 even in Tiers 3/4 that have great jobs. But those people were a different breed of person who had some sort of "it" factor to get such a job. When you ask TLS for advice, they don't know who you are and so they can only give you advice based on statistics and trends.

A little snobbery though? Probably. Who wouldn't be at that position?

No no no. A fucking little bit of "it" is not getting people jobs from tiers3/4 at least not at any level of repaying how much it costs. The problem is paying what it costs to attend these schools and fighting this crazy misperception created by years of the schools lying about employment statistics. I don't want people to become debt slaves from any school.

The amount of misinformation about law is still at an insanely high level.

Right. If someone wants to work at Joe's Small Law Firm for 40K a year and try to work their way up, and they can do it with 75K in debt from a TTT, then most of TLS would call that reasonable. To each his own. The problem is that people go to the TTT at sticker expecting to work biglaw or "corporate law", or they think Joe's Small Law pays a respectable 85K, or they can find some mythical midlaw job paying 110K, or they'll just work for the federal government or dong international law. That's just ignorance, and the law schools sure as shit aren't going to be the ones to clue them in about what's going on or reduce prices to a level where working for Joe's Small Law Firm is a middle-class life.

[rad lulz]

,

[timbs4339]

I want to practice dong international law

Fair. I won't edit.

[boblawlob]

LOL @ rampant TLS snobbery. You morons don't realize that a majority of lawyers in this country DIDN'T go to a T-14 school, yet do just fine for themselves. Some people were meant to be lawyers, some weren't. A majority of the snobs on here are just bitter. I know plenty of attorneys who scored sub-160 on the LSAT, had a sub 3.5 GPA, and still make a very healthy living after graduating from a "non-top law school". If you have game, you will be fine.

I'm not bound for T14 myself, but I think TLS means well when they say "T14 or bust/Retake, ED UVA." They are just simply giving people advice based on statistical information. Of course there are plenty of people outside of T14 even in Tiers 3/4 that have great jobs. But those people were a different breed of person who had some sort of "it" factor to get such a job. When you ask TLS for advice, they don't know who you are and so they can only give you advice based on statistics and trends.

A little snobbery though? Probably. Who wouldn't be at that position?

Oh jeez. Yes, that's the problem. All these people at lower-tier schools just don't have "it". Don't believe anything you read in the stats or news if you have "it," guys. We're not going to use stats or hard facts, we're going to look for the lack of some amorphous glibbity-goop concept of "it" to explain why students down below can't get jobs.

You're not even IN law school, from what it seems ("bound" not for T14 yourself). What do you know?

P.S. I can't believe people still think this way about law school and job prospects. No wonder Cooley is still in business.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to come off as "oh hey non-t14 and tier 3/4 are still great." And I'm certainly not saying "go to a tier 3/4 school." You all are misreading my post.

And I'm not saying not having an "it factor" explains for the lack of jobs. You mistakenly negated my statement. Having an "it" factor is something no one realizes they have just like people not knowing if they will do well in law school or not.

All I'm saying is that there are absolutely outliers to TLS wisdom, but they are, again, outliers and there's no way in knowing that you would be that outlier coming from a tier 3/4 because statistics and odds are set against you from the get go.

Ex: Quick look at the Skadden list of professionals and I see a few tier 2 (or 3?) people working there as Associates post-recession.

DO NOT interpret that as me saying that nont14 and tier3/4 is good and will get you jobs for sure (especially tier 3/4). Hell, even going to a marginal t14 could be bad for a person if they place bottom of the class and have 0 social skills.