USCvUCLAvNYUvPennvUVA-Want to practice in socal Forum

[BruceWayne]

The people saying NYU have lost all perspective. If he attends NYU and lands below the median the likely outcome is a job he doesn't want, in a city he doesn't want to live in, with an outrageous (we're talking 300K) amount of debt. If he goes to USC/UCLA and lands below median he'll likely land a job he doesn't want, in the place where he wants to live, with no debt (meaning he can switch careers if it comes to that). Sit back and think about which of those 2 outcomes is better for your mental health.

[crib]

USC has about a ~10% advantage in Large Firm placement over UCLA, and their federal clerkship numbers are nearly identical.

This lead has existed for exactly one year. UCLA placed more people into large firms as recently as 2010.

This. All the big LA firms quoted (GD&C, OMM, Irell, perhaps Latham) have more UCLA alumni than USC alumni in terms of sheer number.

[Tiago Splitter]

USC has about a ~10% advantage in Large Firm placement over UCLA, and their federal clerkship numbers are nearly identical.

This lead has existed for exactly one year. UCLA placed more people into large firms as recently as 2010.

This. All the big LA firms quoted (GD&C, OMM, Irell, perhaps Latham) have more UCLA alumni than USC alumni in terms of sheer number.

I should have said a higher percentage, which is all that really matters. UCLA of course has more alums in big firms because it produces a lot more grads each year. The main point is that it doesn't seem one or the other has stronger placement ability.

[crib]

USC has about a ~10% advantage in Large Firm placement over UCLA, and their federal clerkship numbers are nearly identical.

This lead has existed for exactly one year. UCLA placed more people into large firms as recently as 2010.

This. All the big LA firms quoted (GD&C, OMM, Irell, perhaps Latham) have more UCLA alumni than USC alumni in terms of sheer number.

I should have said a higher percentage, which is all that really matters. UCLA of course has more alums in big firms because it produces a lot more grads each year. The main point is that it doesn't seem one or the other has stronger placement ability.

Percentage doesn't necessarily make it fair. Remember UCLA's PI self selection.

[Big Dog]

The people saying NYU have lost all perspective.

Au contraire. The world revolves around NYC.

Perspective is all relative.

[dixiecupdrinking]

The people saying NYU have lost all perspective. If he attends NYU and lands below the median the likely outcome is a job he doesn't want, in a city he doesn't want to live in, with an outrageous (we're talking 300K) amount of debt. If he goes to USC/UCLA and lands below median he'll likely land a job he doesn't want, in the place where he wants to live, with no debt (meaning he can switch careers if it comes to that). Sit back and think about which of those 2 outcomes is better for your mental health.

1. Parents are paying.
2. OP wants to be in L.A. but also wants entertainment law and/or biglaw. Doesn't honestly sound like non-biglaw is going to be enticing to OP. NYU is still placing ~80% of people who interview for biglaw in biglaw summer positions. Can't imagine you can say anything close to the same about UCLA or USC. Would suspect that NYU gives you a much better chance at L.A. biglaw than either of the local schools (say good shot if you're top 1/3, plausible if above median, versus, what, good shot at top 10%, plausible if over top 1/3? just spitballing with those numbers), PLUS an astronomically higher chance at non-L.A. biglaw. Might not get a job in L.A. but depending on preference for non-biglaw in L.A. versus biglaw in not-L.A., NYU is quite defensible here.

[mh013]

Would the fact that I want to take a stab at entertainment (spare the lecture, I understand what it is and how difficult it is to break into) would usc be better due to the famed Trojan network and their rule over Hollywood?

[Tiago Splitter]

Percentage doesn't necessarily make it fair. Remember UCLA's PI self selection.

But even with this supposed edge UCLA put only 10% into PI/Gov while at USC it was 5%. Not terribly meaningful. I just think if you look back over the last several years you can't conclude that UCLA or USC really beats the other when it comes to job placement.

[zman]

UCLA ALWAYS places more because they have bigger classes but in terms of % of their class into big law firms USC is usually ahead there(has been for the last 10 or so other than 2010). 2012 might be like 2010 though, UCLA 2012 JDs are all over the place

The PI selection makes a slight difference.

[zman]

Would the fact that I want to take a stab at entertainment (spare the lecture, I understand what it is and how difficult it is to break into) would usc be better due to the famed Trojan network and their rule over Hollywood?

lol the "trojan network" is just good USC propaganda. Hollywood isn't hiring much, it's hard to get a job there.

[Lasers]

Percentage doesn't necessarily make it fair. Remember UCLA's PI self selection.

But even with this supposed edge UCLA put only 10% into PI/Gov while at USC it was 5%. Not terribly meaningful. I just think if you look back over the last several years you can't conclude that UCLA or USC really beats the other when it comes to job placement.

yes, they are exactly peers.

like i've been saying though, the safer route between the two is to go to USC. why? because if the economy doesn't recovery, or tanks even further, the impact will be felt less at USC considering the smaller class size (by about 100 students). so even if they are peers, my theory is that USC better insulates their grads from the shitty legal market. also, 2010 was an anomaly in terms of big law placement; even though the advantage is SLIGHT (except maybe for 2011 which seemed to be a down year for UCLA), USC has had better placement than UCLA for most of the past half decade or so.

[Lasers]

Would the fact that I want to take a stab at entertainment (spare the lecture, I understand what it is and how difficult it is to break into) would usc be better due to the famed Trojan network and their rule over Hollywood?

lol the "trojan network" is just good USC propaganda. Hollywood isn't hiring much, it's hard to get a job there.

i don't even know how you get into "entertainment law." i was talking to one of the best entertainment lawyers in LA and he was telling me how he got into it: mostly random occurrence and luck...and this was several, several years ago. he told me there is no path into entertainment law, especially now. i would seriously just forget about it unless you really want to do it or you have connections.

[mh013]

Im starting an internship at a boutique entertainment firm in LA.
Perhaps I should just try to impress them as a fallback in case biglaw fails.

[bizzybone1313]

I personally know a UCLA law grad that currently works in the oil field. In another thread, I seriously posed the question: Do T-20 schools even make sense anymore? USC, UCLA and UT obviously fit this criteria. Since I am from Texas, UT is what applies in my case. Attending UT would make me very, very nervous. What do ya'll think? What happens to the bottom third UCLA/USC graduates? Unemployment?

[BruceWayne]

I personally know a UCLA law grad that currently works in the oil field. In another thread, I seriously posed the question: Do T-20 schools even make sense anymore? USC, UCLA and UT obviously fit this criteria. Since I am from Texas, UT is what applies in my case. Attending UT would make me very, very nervous. What do ya'll think? What happens to the bottom third UCLA/USC graduates? Unemployment?

The bottom 1/3 at any non HYS law school in the country has a very high chance of unemployment. I wouldn't view any of those schools as being uniquely susceptible to the bottom 1/3rd being unemployed. If you do end up bottom 1/3 you need to network, do as many externships with employers during school as possible, and build your resume up for public interest work. And when it comes time to bid for 2L OCI bid only on firms who have hired from below median (preferably bottom 1/3) and in markets where you have ties. Practice interviewing like your life depends on it and pray for the best.

[timbs4339]

This comes down to what situation you'd rather be in if and when you don't get biglaw in L.A., because that is a contingency you need to plan for either way.

If you'd rather have any old legal job in California and/or risk unemployment than a high-paying job elsewhere (which it sounds like is true), then do USC/UCLA.

If you'd rather have biglaw elsewhere (i.e., NYC) than a low-paying job and/or risk unemployment in L.A., then NYU.

Frankly, if your parents are all set to drop six figures on your education then IMHO you should feel free to take the damn money, so I am discounting the cost issue substantially from if you were going to borrow the difference.

Unless your parents are super (and we're taking super) wealthy then I can't see how this is a good idea. Putting a financial strain on your parents is pretty irresponsible.

Right, if the parents could drop 200K on a world vacation and not see a lowering of their standard of living (or a huge hit to their retirement fund) then I think that's okay. But the average upper middle class family doesn't fit this definition.

[mh013]

If NYU is the choice, is it quite difficult to come back to southern california?
Wouldn't I have to split my bids between NY and CA? Is that a risky thing to do?
Would it be better (hypothetically of course) to be like top half of USC/UCLA or bottom third of NYU?

[Lasers]

If NYU is the choice, is it quite difficult to come back to southern california?
Wouldn't I have to split my bids between NY and CA? Is that a risky thing to do?
Would it be better (hypothetically of course) to be like top half of USC/UCLA or bottom third of NYU?

i can't imagine it being difficult to come back to CA from NYU at all so long as you have some ties to the area.

as for splitting bids, i don't think it's risky at all; might even allow you to broaden your search post-OCI should you fail to get an offer.

i don't know what's better between top half at USC/UCLA or bottom third at NYU, but i imagine big law isn't totally out of the question in either scenario.

if cost isn't an issue, then nyu is the choice. but really, i don't know how i would turn down 120k.

[mh013]

Any thoughts on the JD/MBA (especially for entertainment)?

I have always considering pursuing the joint degree, and it looks especially lucrative due to the free JD.

Does it seem to be harder to gain employment having the dual degree? Do firms see it as negative when hiring out of OCI?

[BigZuck]

The people saying NYU have lost all perspective. If he attends NYU and lands below the median the likely outcome is a job he doesn't want, in a city he doesn't want to live in, with an outrageous (we're talking 300K) amount of debt. If he goes to USC/UCLA and lands below median he'll likely land a job he doesn't want, in the place where he wants to live, with no debt (meaning he can switch careers if it comes to that). Sit back and think about which of those 2 outcomes is better for your mental health.

How the heck is he going to have no debt with a 120k scholarship at UCLA/USC? He will still have 100K+ worth of debt. Dude's gotta eat.

Btw he won't actually have any debt at all, his parents are rich and generous.

Look Bruce here's the deal: I understand that you hate law school and your life choices and all but if you're going to keep up with the schtick you need to at least put some effort into what you post. Because honestly, lately you've just looked lazy.

[06102016]

..

[EvilClinton]

Can someone elaborate on the difficulty of coming back to CA? I've lived here my whole life, want to end up here after law school, and am considering a lower T14 (Duke) vs. USC with 75k. Definitely not the same as OP, but you guys think it's really advisable for someone in my position to take USC over Duke with comparable money?

Where do you guys get this info about the CA markets?

eta: and not Duke at sticker, but I'm not sure how much yet.

Are you more worried about having any job or about coming back to CA?

If it is just "having a job" then go to Duke. If you only want to work in CA then go to USC.

[beautyistruth]

Get UCLA and USC in a bidding war and attend the one that leaves you with the least debt

If you get these two schools in a bidding war but end up declining both, will that come back to hurt you?

[Davidbentley]

No.

[northwood]

if you want socal, and so cal is offering you a good scholarship, I would take it and go. Its easier to network in your target area if you go to school there. If you really want SoCal and think you wont like NYC, then why go to NYC? Sure NYU is a great school, but law school is 3 years of misery, so why add to the misery? If you can at least mitigate some of teh misery by being in the area where you want to live, and eventually practice, then go to USC/ UCLA ( especially since it'll cost less- which for you may not be a big deal, but for the vast majority of people here, it may be something to seriously consider). I will also add that a smaller class size may be more beneficial because there are less people for firms to choose from ( from your school), even though that also means a smaller alumni network.

Im not from SoCal, so I dont know, but what is the difference in alumni networks between UCLA and USC?

TL DR: choose USC or UCLA if you really are sure that you want SoCal and would be miserable in NYC.