Philadelphia Forum

[beach_terror]

If you're living in NJ just to save money, and aren't living with your parents, there are much better spots to do so.

[johnnyutah]

Thanks guys. SEPTA at 8th and Market is two blocks from the PATCO stop. SEPTA says it stops at UPenn ($2). Probably a great way to go on a snowy day (unless those two blocks are never-ending).

I'm sorry if I missed this elsewhere, but what is your situation? Are you considering living at home in Cherry Hill with parents and commuting to Penn? It's doable, but I wouldn't reccomend it if you can avoid it. If you're doing it just to save living costs, you might not save too much if you are willing to live with a roommate, and can get rid of your car completely and avoid gas/insurance/commute costs.

Also, the PATCO line stops at 8th & Market, not two blocks away. I believe that has been discussed already in this thread, but just want to be sure you know. The most logical way to get from PATCO to Penn is to take the MFL (underground subway line) from 8th & Market to 34th & Market, and then walk one block over to the law school. (MFL costs $1.55 per ride if you buy tokens). If it's a nice day and you have spare time, you can also take PATCO to the end of the line at 16th & Locust and walk to Penn, but that's about a 20 minute walk.

Seriously. If you want to go to Penn and save money, live in West Philly or South Philly, not Jersey.

[HeavenWood]

Thanks guys. SEPTA at 8th and Market is two blocks from the PATCO stop. SEPTA says it stops at UPenn ($2). Probably a great way to go on a snowy day (unless those two blocks are never-ending).

I'm sorry if I missed this elsewhere, but what is your situation? Are you considering living at home in Cherry Hill with parents and commuting to Penn? It's doable, but I wouldn't reccomend it if you can avoid it. If you're doing it just to save living costs, you might not save too much if you are willing to live with a roommate, and can get rid of your car completely and avoid gas/insurance/commute costs.

Also, the PATCO line stops at 8th & Market, not two blocks away. I believe that has been discussed already in this thread, but just want to be sure you know. The most logical way to get from PATCO to Penn is to take the MFL (underground subway line) from 8th & Market to 34th & Market, and then walk one block over to the law school. (MFL costs $1.55 per ride if you buy tokens). If it's a nice day and you have spare time, you can also take PATCO to the end of the line at 16th & Locust and walk to Penn, but that's about a 20 minute walk.

Seriously. If you want to go to Penn and save money, live in West Philly or South Philly, not Jersey.

Even Havretowne.

[tarp]

Honestly your best bet if you are living in NJ and renting a place, is to just live in Audubon, Oaklyn, or another of the suburbs that are close to the Walt Whitman Bridge and just take 76 to school everyday. It's a 10 minute commute. Traffic isn't too bad. If you have a 9 AM class it might take 30 minutes with traffic. Usually less. The main costs are the toll ($5) and a semester parking permit (about $500 at Drexel, probably more at Penn). PATCO is a pain... switching to SEPTA at 8th and Market gets old really fast. Of course, if you like public transportation go for it. I can be in University City faster than it takes to drive to the PATCO station, park and wait for the train. It ends up costing more to drive, but it's so much easier and faster. Stay away from Cherry Hill - too much traffic. Also, don't listen to the guys who don't know what they're talking about and say Drexel is a bad choice. I will laugh when they are all unemployed after graduating from Temple or Villanova, and have to pay back student loan debt. The job situation entirely sucks right now - don't do to ANY law school expecting employment afterward. Always have a backup plan. The law degree will be useful once the economy improves. Just pick the cheapest school, unless you want biglaw or academia, then only go to T14 at any cost.

[johnnyutah]

Also, don't listen to the guys who don't know what they're talking about and say Drexel is a bad choice. I will laugh when they are all unemployed after graduating from Temple or Villanova, and have to pay back student loan debt. The job situation entirely sucks right now - don't do to ANY law school expecting employment afterward. Always have a backup plan. The law degree will be useful once the economy improves. Just pick the cheapest school, unless you want biglaw or academia, then only go to T14 at any cost.

tarp: the Veyron of Drexel.

[HeavenWood]

Also, don't listen to the guys who don't know what they're talking about and say Drexel is a bad choice. I will laugh when they are all unemployed after graduating from Temple or Villanova, and have to pay back student loan debt. The job situation entirely sucks right now - don't do to ANY law school expecting employment afterward. Always have a backup plan. The law degree will be useful once the economy improves. Just pick the cheapest school, unless you want biglaw or academia, then only go to T14 at any cost.

tarp: the Veyron of Drexel.

That's not very fair, johnny. Veyron has some inkling of what he's talking about.

[beach_terror]

Also, don't listen to the guys who don't know what they're talking about and say Drexel is a bad choice. I will laugh when they are all unemployed after graduating from Temple or Villanova, and have to pay back student loan debt. The job situation entirely sucks right now - don't do to ANY law school expecting employment afterward. Always have a backup plan. The law degree will be useful once the economy improves. Just pick the cheapest school, unless you want biglaw or academia, then only go to T14 at any cost.

tarp: the Veyron of Drexel.

So true on the annoyance factor. Some irony is that I interviewed with a biglaw hiring partner last week who is an alumni of Drexel undergrad. I should have went their for undergrad, damn you sports scholarships at small liberal arts schools nearby!

[johnnyutah]

Also, don't listen to the guys who don't know what they're talking about and say Drexel is a bad choice. I will laugh when they are all unemployed after graduating from Temple or Villanova, and have to pay back student loan debt. The job situation entirely sucks right now - don't do to ANY law school expecting employment afterward. Always have a backup plan. The law degree will be useful once the economy improves. Just pick the cheapest school, unless you want biglaw or academia, then only go to T14 at any cost.

tarp: the Veyron of Drexel.

That's not very fair, johnny. Veyron has some inkling of what he's talking about.

Fair

[tarp]

Do you guys have jobs lined up? All I keep hearing about are the endless interviews. I thought Villanova had great job prospects.

[HeavenWood]

Do you guys have jobs lined up? All I keep hearing about are the endless interviews. I thought Villanova had great job prospects.

Do you? Oh wait, you're going into solo. Good luck hanging up your shingle sans meaningful real-world experience (and those legal clinics you keep talking about don't count as real world experience) in this economy.

[johnnyutah]

Do you guys have jobs lined up? All I keep hearing about are the endless interviews. I thought Villanova had great job prospects.

I'm a judicial clerk.

[x7227]

Do you guys have jobs lined up? All I keep hearing about are the endless interviews. I thought Villanova had great job prospects.

u mad bro?

Do you? Oh wait, you're going into solo. Good luck hanging up your shingle sans meaningful real-world experience (and those legal clinics you keep talking about don't count as real world experience) in this economy.

Awwww someone beat me to it...

Seriously though, I didn't mind Drexel. I thought they were building up some steam in the Philly market. Anyone who goes there has to be realistic about what Drexel is and isn't. They also have to be willing to put in TONS more networking time to compensate for the lack of an alumni network. This is in addition to the TONS of networking you need to be doing as is. Ultimately the cost difference between Temple and Drexel (in purely economic terms) was practically negligible for me, but the lack of certainty in status and no alumni network to speak of weighed heavily against Drexel imo.

Even Havretowne.

Not funny. Someone might rely upon your olden timey sounding/charming description of Havertown and think its an acceptable place to live. If you come to Philly, DO NOT choose to live in Havertown. This kills the soul.

[beach_terror]

Even Havretowne.

Not funny. Someone might rely upon your olden timey sounding/charming description of Havertown and think its an acceptable place to live. If you come to Philly, DO NOT choose to live in Havertown. This kills the soul.

Woah now, I'm from an adjacent town.

[HeavenWood]

Even Havretowne.

Not funny. Someone might rely upon your olden timey sounding/charming description of Havertown and think its an acceptable place to live. If you come to Philly, DO NOT choose to live in Havertown. This kills the soul.

Woah now, I'm from an adjacent town.

As am I, and our municipalities together form a shit sandwich, the shit being Havertown.

[x7227]

Even Havretowne.

Not funny. Someone might rely upon your olden timey sounding/charming description of Havertown and think its an acceptable place to live. If you come to Philly, DO NOT choose to live in Havertown. This kills the soul.

Woah now, I'm from an adjacent town.

Are you from Havertown? No? Then you're fine.

[HeavenWood]

Even Havretowne.

Not funny. Someone might rely upon your olden timey sounding/charming description of Havertown and think its an acceptable place to live. If you come to Philly, DO NOT choose to live in Havertown. This kills the soul.

Woah now, I'm from an adjacent town.

Are you from Havertown? No? Then you're fine.

Irrational Havertown hatred aside, I think we can all agree that tarp sucks and has no clue what he's talking about.

[r6_philly]

Even Havretowne.

Not funny. Someone might rely upon your olden timey sounding/charming description of Havertown and think its an acceptable place to live. If you come to Philly, DO NOT choose to live in Havertown. This kills the soul.

Woah now, I'm from an adjacent town.

If Havertown isn't an acceptable place to live, I must be living in the Camden of Philly suburbs.

[beach_terror]

Even Havretowne.

Not funny. Someone might rely upon your olden timey sounding/charming description of Havertown and think its an acceptable place to live. If you come to Philly, DO NOT choose to live in Havertown. This kills the soul.

Woah now, I'm from an adjacent town.

If Havertown isn't an acceptable place to live, I must be living in the Camden of Philly suburbs.

Truth. I mean, Havertown is no Clifton Heights.

[x7227]

Even Havretowne.

Not funny. Someone might rely upon your olden timey sounding/charming description of Havertown and think its an acceptable place to live. If you come to Philly, DO NOT choose to live in Havertown. This kills the soul.

Woah now, I'm from an adjacent town.

If Havertown isn't an acceptable place to live, I must be living in the Camden of Philly suburbs.

I mean unless you're living in Upper Darby proper or other parts of Delco (say...oh...Chester (which is really just Camden-West)), you're not worse off than if you were in Havertown.

I said this to Heavenwood, but it bears repeating. The people from Havertown are simple folk...their teenagers follow the ancient Havertown tradition of hanging out in the wawa parking lot and the slightly more modern tradition of hanging out in the newer wawa parking lot. They're a hardscrabble folk and should be admired for their dedication to their customs...sorta like the Amish. But much like the Amish, we just don't want to live amongst them nor they amongst us.

[tarp]

Nothing wrong with Havertown. And many parts of Upper Darby, in particular Drexel Hill, are very nice suburban areas. As for meaningful legal experience... how about 1 year in a clinic, a summer at a law firm, another semester in a legal clinic handling a case in my practice area, and one semester working for Philly's top public interest law firm arguing cases in my chosen practice area. You should really pick up Foonberg's classic text if you have any inkling to hang up your own shingle. Most lawyers out there are less knowledgeable than I am. Forgive me if I am actually invested in studying law, and actually interested in reading and learning this stuff. By the way, Drexel is #1 in experiential learning. That's all that matters to an entrepreneur like myself. I am practice-ready straight out of law school, and that's my top consideration. So while your best case scenario as a wage slave is to kiss enough ass at interviews to get hired, then work 60 to 80 hours a week doing document review, I'll be handling real cases with real clients and pocketing the entire fee for myself. I'll also be able to make it home each night at a decent hour to spend time with the wife and kids. Have fun at BigLaw (tm), I'll stick with schmoozing with other solos and small firm guys to get referrals, advertising and networking, and building a client base where the brand name is myself - not some big firm named after partners who aren't even alive anymore.

[HeavenWood]

Nothing wrong with Havertown. And many parts of Upper Darby, in particular Drexel Hill, are very nice suburban areas. As for meaningful legal experience... how about 1 year in a clinic, a summer at a law firm, another semester in a legal clinic handling a case in my practice area, and one semester working for Philly's top public interest law firm arguing cases in my chosen practice area. You should really pick up Foonberg's classic text if you have any inkling to hang up your own shingle. Most lawyers out there are less knowledgeable than I am. Forgive me if I am actually invested in studying law, and actually interested in reading and learning this stuff. By the way, Drexel is #1 in experiential learning. That's all that matters to an entrepreneur like myself. I am practice-ready straight out of law school, and that's my top consideration. So while your best case scenario as a wage slave is to kiss enough ass at interviews to get hired, then work 60 to 80 hours a week doing document review, I'll be handling real cases with real clients and pocketing the entire fee for myself. I'll also be able to make it home each night at a decent hour to spend time with the wife and kids. Have fun at BigLaw (tm), I'll stick with schmoozing with other solos and small firm guys to get referrals, advertising and networking, and building a client base where the brand name is myself - not some big firm named after partners who aren't even alive anymore.

lolololololol

I especially liked the part about Drexel being #1 in experiential learning. Good luck handling real cases with real clients... that is if anyone ever hires you.

[r6_philly]

I mean unless you're living in Upper Darby proper or other parts of Delco (say...oh...Chester (which is really just Camden-West)), you're not worse off than if you were in Havertown.

I said this to Heavenwood, but it bears repeating. The people from Havertown are simple folk...their teenagers follow the ancient Havertown tradition of hanging out in the wawa parking lot and the slightly more modern tradition of hanging out in the newer wawa parking lot. They're a hardscrabble folk and should be admired for their dedication to their customs...sorta like the Amish. But much like the Amish, we just don't want to live amongst them nor they amongst us.

You should stop.

And I live in Delco.

[HeavenWood]

I mean unless you're living in Upper Darby proper or other parts of Delco (say...oh...Chester (which is really just Camden-West)), you're not worse off than if you were in Havertown.

I said this to Heavenwood, but it bears repeating. The people from Havertown are simple folk...their teenagers follow the ancient Havertown tradition of hanging out in the wawa parking lot and the slightly more modern tradition of hanging out in the newer wawa parking lot. They're a hardscrabble folk and should be admired for their dedication to their customs...sorta like the Amish. But much like the Amish, we just don't want to live amongst them nor they amongst us.

You should stop.

And I live in Delco.

I think he's being facetious, although I'm not quite sure I get the joke.

[x7227]

Nothing wrong with Havertown. And many parts of Upper Darby, in particular Drexel Hill, are very nice suburban areas. As for meaningful legal experience... how about 1 year in a clinic, a summer at a law firm, another semester in a legal clinic handling a case in my practice area, and one semester working for Philly's top public interest law firm arguing cases in my chosen practice area. You should really pick up Foonberg's classic text if you have any inkling to hang up your own shingle. Most lawyers out there are less knowledgeable than I am.

Really? I wanted to like you, and I said nice things about Drexel...but really?! Tone down the self-aggrandizement just a bit and show a little bit of humility. Most lawyers have been out there making a living since before you were in grade school.

Forgive me if I am actually invested in studying law, and actually interested in reading and learning this stuff.

And the rest of us lowlife law students and lawyers aren't?

By the way, Drexel is #1 in experiential learning. That's all that matters to an entrepreneur like myself. I am practice-ready straight out of law school, and that's my top consideration.

Again with the boasting...why???

So while your best case scenario as a wage slave is to kiss enough ass at interviews to get hired, then work 60 to 80 hours a week doing document review, I'll be handling real cases with real clients and pocketing the entire fee for myself. I'll also be able to make it home each night at a decent hour to spend time with the wife and kids. Have fun at BigLaw (tm), I'll stick with schmoozing with other solos and small firm guys to get referrals, advertising and networking, and building a client base where the brand name is myself - not some big firm named after partners who aren't even alive anymore.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to be a solo out there? I worked exclusively for solos as a paralegal, and I provided technology solutions tailored to solos and small practitioners. Its a hustle every day looking for business. You've gotta juggle so many balls in the air, put on many hats just to keep your place up and running. Its not just about schmoozing with other solos and small firms. Biglaw might be 60-80 hours a week doing scut work, but you'll never have to worry about how best to manage your staff while maximizing revenue streams all while working on bill slips to send out to your client ALL WHILE GETTING YOUR CLIENT WORK DONE. Being a solo is tremendously difficult, doubly so in this economy.

I wish you the best Tarp, but it sounds like you might need to learn the concept of hubris...the hard way. Plus don't forget that while there is a bit of anonymity here on TLS, if you act like this amongst your fellow colleagues, you're gonna get a reputation...fast. Philly is a decent (not huge) legal market, but its also an EXTREMELY close-knit community. If you act like a swaggeriffic braggart right out of law school, be prepared for a smack on the nose and a black eye that will count against you.

Just sayin is all.

[x7227]

I mean unless you're living in Upper Darby proper or other parts of Delco (say...oh...Chester (which is really just Camden-West)), you're not worse off than if you were in Havertown.

I said this to Heavenwood, but it bears repeating. The people from Havertown are simple folk...their teenagers follow the ancient Havertown tradition of hanging out in the wawa parking lot and the slightly more modern tradition of hanging out in the newer wawa parking lot. They're a hardscrabble folk and should be admired for their dedication to their customs...sorta like the Amish. But much like the Amish, we just don't want to live amongst them nor they amongst us.

You should stop.

And I live in Delco.

I think he's being facetious, although I'm not quite sure I get the joke.

I'm being extremely facetious, if that didn't come across I apologize. There is absolutely nothing about TLS that I take seriously. I try to be the funny one in a sea of dour seriousness.

I worked in Delco, most of it is extremely lovely, but parts of it are...not. As for Havertown, it just has a certain reputation, earned or not. Its the butt of many jokes. Its like jokes about New Jersey or Poland. They're clearly meant as a humorous stereotypical caricature. We emphasize the worst characteristics to enhance the parody...