Harvard v. Stanford for NYC biglaw Forum

[paratactical]

90% of TLS just pulls crap out of their rear based on "logic".

And the other 10% makes up percentages when it suits their argument.

Sorry, correction. The vast majority of TLS just pulls crap out of their rear based on "logic". Better?

Hey, you were quoting me when I was saying that mcat is coming across craycray as if it was part of a serious argument I was making. You douched first.

[rundoxierun]

Hey, you were quoting me when I was saying that mcat is coming across craycray as if it was part of a serious argument I was making. You douched first.

Haha.. points for excellent use of the word "douched".

[paratactical]

Hey, you were quoting me when I was saying that mcat is coming across craycray as if it was part of a serious argument I was making. You douched first.

Haha.. points for excellent use of the word "douched".

FWIW, jabroni, I agree about the asspeak. *fistbump*

[hdivschool]

To counter the minor prestige bump that HLS has, there's something special and rewarding about being cherry picked by SLS. The admissions office read your package and picked you not just because of your numbers but because of some other factor.

I wonder how H/S(/Y) cross-admits who choose Harvard perform (both in law school and afterward) relative to those who were only admitted to H.

kind of hard to determine though right? some people may not have applied to all 3 for personal reasons (ex: me)

Yea, it would be. I'm just idly speculating. People not applying to all three would only be an issue if we didn't observe superior performance by cross-admits, though.

not to mention, i dont know how you plan to measure 'performance' outside of law school per se

This is another difficultly. But the metrics commonly used to compare law schools (e.g. NLJ 250 placement; Art. III clerkships) might provide a rough idea.

[BruceWayne]

Whereas straight Ps from H would be?

Something closer to it, yes.

straight P at both H/S will not get you V10. It will be sub V50. Grades still matter for the top firms

If this is true this website overplays the importance of going to one school over another within the top 14, and underplays the significance of one's personal academic record while in law school.

[legends159]

Whereas straight Ps from H would be?

Something closer to it, yes.

straight P at both H/S will not get you V10. It will be sub V50. Grades still matter for the top firms

If this is true this website overplays the importance of going to one school over another within the top 14, and underplays the significance of one's personal academic record while in law school.

yes this site does. HYS provides buffer for the bottom of the class. If you're at the top of your class at any T20 school including Fordham you can go practically anywhere. Smaller markets like DC may be a bit more difficult but still very possible. For example I know people from GW going to WC.

edit: clerkships, prestigious PI/fellowships, DOJ honors etc. are different. Going to a top school usually is a prerequisite to having your app looked at.

[sarahh]

Stanford has a smaller class size, but more people apply to Harvard. Aren't the acceptance rates at both around 10%? And Stanford seems to be pretty number-focused too - they just focus more on the GPA than most schools. You don't really see them accepting people with lower numbers and strong softs, unlike Berkeley (based on the info available on LSN). Anyway, it is silly to choose a school based on selectivity.

I think Stanford provides more of a cushion job-wise, but I echo the sentiment that it is good to visit both schools. I don't think there is a wrong choice here.

[rundoxierun]

straight P at both H/S will not get you V10. It will be sub V50. Grades still matter for the top firms

If this is true this website overplays the importance of going to one school over another within the top 14, and underplays the significance of one's personal academic record while in law school.

Thats b/c TCR is that no one here actually really knows the context behind the numbers. Earlier in the cycle when I was taking forum consensus as gospel I didnt think even HYS was worth 6 figure debt. Fact is, you would be hard pressed to find anyone at these schools screwed. From my experience. Much of the other 25% that isnt doing biglaw pay firms and art. III clerkships is still doing very good stuff. The sentiment that H class size hurts employment prospects seemed to be way overstated(as an example).

[DoubleChecks]

straight P at both H/S will not get you V10. It will be sub V50. Grades still matter for the top firms

If this is true this website overplays the importance of going to one school over another within the top 14, and underplays the significance of one's personal academic record while in law school.

Thats b/c TCR is that no one here actually really knows the context behind the numbers. Earlier in the cycle when I was taking forum consensus as gospel I didnt think even HYS was worth 6 figure debt. Fact is, you would be hard pressed to find anyone at these schools screwed. From my experience. Much of the other 25% that isnt doing biglaw pay firms and art. III clerkships is still doing very good stuff. The sentiment that H class size hurts employment prospects seemed to be way overstated(as an example).

Well I will at least somewhat echo this sentiment -- or the part that people do tend to find something. In this bad economy, finding things may be SLOWER and thus more stressful...but from the 2Ls and 3Ls I've spoken to, it seems that they (and pretty much everyone they know) eventually do get jobs post-graduation...maybe not all biglaw or clerkships, but say a midlaw where they are still pretty happy (excluding those who wanted PI and got PI).

[polevaulter]

Most Ivies still take your parent's income into consideration all the way up to age 30--which I think is extremely unfair.

Obvious troll is obvious.

You clearly must not be looking into admission at any Ivy League law schools, because that's how they operate when it comes to financial aid packages. If you're parents have money, you are paying the sticker price. See below quote from: http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/faq.html

"Due to limited University resources, we must consider each student's entire financial situation. Accordingly, Penn Law requires financial aid applicants and their families (except those students over the age of 30 by December 31, of the year of enrollment) to complete the parental, student and spousal (if applicable) sections of the Need Access financial aid application. As a graduate school applicant you are considered "independent" under federal guidelines and are only required to complete the student sections of the FAFSA."

I really hope that you think the next time before you call someone a troll. You are obviously ignorant.

[ImpatientlyWaiting]

I think TLS just doesn't offer good insight on this issue. On the one hand, you have people telling you to go to Harvard for prestige, and on the other you have people telling you to go to Stanford because of the weather. The truth is, there's no convincing reason to think that one would be better than the other. The stats that are usually cited don't indicate anything significant about the comparative odds of getting an NYC biglaw job if you want one. I'd say visit both schools and decide which you like better. I'd pick Harvard, but that's just me.

[Kretzy]

Um, they're both great, yet different. Top of the class has every opportunity. Bottom of the class has a decent cushion and a great name to fall back on.

Visit each, decide whether you like big v. small class and east v. west coast, and what classes/programs/faculty interest you. Look at OCI stats for number of people bidding on a city where you want to go v. placement in that city.

Pick one.

Profit.

.02 from a very happy SLS 1L.



/30 threads on this subject.

[paratactical]

Most Ivies still take your parent's income into consideration all the way up to age 30--which I think is extremely unfair.

Obvious troll is obvious.

You clearly must not be looking into admission at any Ivy League law schools, because that's how they operate when it comes to financial aid packages. If you're parents have money, you are paying the sticker price. See below quote from: http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/faq.html

"Due to limited University resources, we must consider each student's entire financial situation. Accordingly, Penn Law requires financial aid applicants and their families (except those students over the age of 30 by December 31, of the year of enrollment) to complete the parental, student and spousal (if applicable) sections of the Need Access financial aid application. As a graduate school applicant you are considered "independent" under federal guidelines and are only required to complete the student sections of the FAFSA."

I really hope that you think the next time before you call someone a troll. You are obviously ignorant.

You obviously can't read between the lines. I'm saying u trollin' because it's ignant to think that you deserve finanical support for going to an Ivy law school. HTH.

[Slevin Kelevra 2011]

Harvard. While Stanford is an oustanding "national" school, Harvard is still Harvard.

[mcat4life87]

Harvard. While Stanford is an oustanding "national" school, Harvard is still Harvard.

But what about the special feeling you get from attending Stanford? At SLS you're 1/200 instead of 1/600 and you feel more special, while will help you get NYC biglaw.

[polevaulter]

Most Ivies still take your parent's income into consideration all the way up to age 30--which I think is extremely unfair.

Obvious troll is obvious.

You clearly must not be looking into admission at any Ivy League law schools, because that's how they operate when it comes to financial aid packages. If you're parents have money, you are paying the sticker price. See below quote from: http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/faq.html

"Due to limited University resources, we must consider each student's entire financial situation. Accordingly, Penn Law requires financial aid applicants and their families (except those students over the age of 30 by December 31, of the year of enrollment) to complete the parental, student and spousal (if applicable) sections of the Need Access financial aid application. As a graduate school applicant you are considered "independent" under federal guidelines and are only required to complete the student sections of the FAFSA."

I really hope that you think the next time before you call someone a troll. You are obviously ignorant.

You obviously can't read between the lines. I'm saying u trollin' because it's ignant to think that you deserve finanical support for going to an Ivy law school. HTH.

All applicants deserve a chance at financial aid regardless of what school they want to attend--that's Ivy-League or not. FYI: Not all people who go to Ivies are rich or from an affluent background. So quit slamming people who go to these schools--especially those applicants who might need the aid.

P.S. By the way, congratulations on posting another dumb comment.

[ArthurDigbySellers]

retake













dick

[paratactical]

All applicants deserve a chance at financial aid regardless of what school they want to attend--that's Ivy-League or not. FYI: Not all people who go to Ivies are rich or from an affluent background. So quit slamming people who go to these schools--especially those applicants who might need the aid.

P.S. By the way, congratulations on posting another dumb comment.

It's not about background, it's about earning potential after graduation.

P.S. I'll take the high road and ignore your ad hom.

[ahduth]

lol, everytime this thread pops to the top I think to myself, "what kind of social degenerate can't get NYC biglaw from either one of these schools?"

Then I realize this is TLS.

[Non-Chalant1]

lol, everytime this thread pops to the top I think to myself, "what kind of social degenerate can't get NYC biglaw from either one of these schools?"

Then I realize this is TLS.

Exactly. Then I worry about what kind of people I will have in my classes.

[dissonance1848]

SLS, hands down. Smaller class size + self-selection = commodity. Throw in the fact that Harvard changes its grading system (yes, there are grades at Harvard to a greater extent than Stanford), and that the number of people from SLS becoming partners seems to be comprable to HLS, and this is no issue.

HLS is overrated, SLS is underrated.

[DoubleChecks]

HLS is underrated, SLS is overrated on TLS.

FTFY

[ArthurDigbySellers]

Yeah, Harvard, what a diploma mill...

[polevaulter]

Yeah, Harvard, what a diploma mill...

Diploma mill = cooley law school

[jcunni5]

either option is great but if it was me i'd pick stanford small class size, better weather, prolly less elitists that chose a school cause it's ivy/ uber prestigious