Is Fordham Worth Sticker? Forum

[icouldbuyu]

Wow, does ANYONE agree with what Columbia Law is saying?

I'm not saying hes lying, I'm actually inclined to believe him, and that is what scares the living sh** out of me.

Struggle to get a 40k job? Unless you're top 5%? That is ridiculous. We should all just go to trade school and be plumbers and carpenters then. Recession proof, job security, and a lot of room for advancement into master craftsmanship. Am I right!??!

Is there ANY T30 school that has decent employment prospects ITE? Or is it just T14 now? Should everyone who can't make T14 give up any shot at practicing Law, and just be a waiter or a teacher and make 40-60K?

It's a tough market. A tougher one than you give are giving it credit for. The thing is after 2L OCI, finding any paying legal job becomes tough because there aren't a heck of a lot of them out there. It's not like biglaw stopped hiring and all other law firms kept up their hiring. The recession affects almost everyone. Your trade schools "plumber" and "carpenter" jobs aren't rescission proof either. After the housing market plummeted people started putting off things like home improvements or repairs in houses that don't really need it (e.g. if you have an extra house now that no one is willing to pay you anything decent for). It's crazy to even think that t14 students will have “decent employment prospects” simply because they attend a t14. I personally know a number of 3Ls at my school (a t14) that don’t have any paying legal employment lined up for after graduation. It’s not like your school and grades are going to convince a legal employer to take on an attorney that they have no need for (i.e. when firms are laying attorneys off because they can’t give them enough work, they aren’t all of a sudden going to hire you because you have a 3.49GPA and go to Fordham). But at the same time, I don’t think that this means that you should “give up any shot at practicing Law, and just be a waiter or a teacher and make 40-60K” because first off you probably won’t even find a job as a teacher ITE, and things eventually have to pick back up. It’s not like the legal profession is just going to die after this economy. People will always need lawyers. You just have to be more cautious entering into law school because the large law firm model is changing (it is shrinking in size/disappearing since their clients can no longer afford their high billable rates because the corporate clients themselves aren’t making any money). That means taking on something like $200k in debt to attend 3 years of law school at a school like Fordham might not be such a great idea anymore. Keep in mind the less debt you come out with, the more flexibility you have (i.e. paying off $40K in debt with a $50K /year salary isn’t that bad, paying off $200K in debt with a $50k /year salary is impossible).

TITCR. After you strike out at OCI, it becomes "eat what you kill." I'd say 50%+ of people in law school come from well off families, were taught their entire life to do good in school, and neglected at least SOME part of a social life to do well in school. These are the people who get hurt. If you have a hint of anti-social in you, it's going to show in the real world. The world we live in presents an absurd assumption that if you do well in school then you will have a job waiting. After OCI, it's about selling yourself--which most law students can't do.

I actually agree with this. I feel like most of the kids that go to HYS and CCN have no social skills, which will deff hinder their chances of getting a job. If interviewers don't believe you can communicate with clients and other employees, they arent going to hire you no matter how smart you are. But this doesn't mean that law school is a bad idea. It just means there are other factors like in any other industry, which determine how successful you'll be. In the long run, I'd bet there are more successful graduates from lower ranked schools than the T14. I personally know several millionaires from T3's and T4's.

[OperaSoprano]

My classmate 1Levening2013 is right. He has a lot more work experience than I do (I was only one year out of college when I came here) and I switched from evening to day, though I'm still taking mostly evening classes since I spend two days a week in the legal dept. at a company in my field. I spent the summer doing public interest work, so I think I can speak credibly to both sides of the equation.

I am paying sticker, with what has turned out to be some help with living expenses from my family. I had no desire at all for biglaw when I came here, but I participated in OCI at the urging of friends. I can and will absolutely say that people with top grades are fairly safe, though there is some disagreement about where the "top grades" line is, and personality still matters here, as it does everywhere. NYC biglaw was the first market to recover, and it is easier to get a biglaw job in New York than in Chicago or (God forbid, top quarter people at UVA have no guarantees here) DC.

This doesn't mean it's easy. I didn't get one. This can be explained at least in part by the fact that I didn't truly want one, and I am not really motivated enough by visions of $$$$ to give up quality of life and personal happiness. I also have an educational background in fashion, which could easily have sent interviewers at large firms running for the hills. In my case, not getting biglaw was a fairly large blessing in disguise, because I would not have been able to turn it down and I know I would have hated it. I believe, given my history at this school and connections I've been able to make, however, that I will either go to a small firm with a high QoL, or some type of nonprofit work. I am flexible, enjoy a great many things, and will take a lower salary plus IBR over golden handcuffs any day of the week.

So here is my analysis. If you CANNOT LIVE without biglaw, going to any school below about CCN is risky business. Some of my favorite people at T14s are still looking, and some of these schools have about half placement at present. Some of my favorite people at CCN are still looking, though the odds there are better. That said, Fordham students will not be unemployed. By graduation, my guess is that about 18-20% of students will have gotten biglaw (see my definition) through OCI, and an additional unknown number (around 10-15%, by my best guess) through family connections or on their own. This definition includes the entire NLJ250, and it is at best an educated guess from talking to my classmates, doing my research, and having this conversation with various school employees. I question everything, and I like to see empirical data, which I won't have until my classmates are well past graduation. Things were marginally better for us than for the class of 2011, because the most elite firms increased class size. Unfortunately, the trend did not necessarily trickle down to the lower half of the V100.

I will finish by saying that nobody knows for sure what the numbers are for my class. No one can give you more than an educated guess, but it is certainly possible to quash some of the misinformation floating around. We won't come close to 40% again, absent a major uptick in the economy and 3L OCI, but 5-10% is equally inaccurate. I have no regrets about paying sticker, but I also view law school as an end in itself. It's changed me in ways I could never have anticipated, and even knowing everything I know, I would do it again.

[jazzman]

My classmate 1Levening2013 is right. He has a lot more work experience than I do (I was only one year out of college when I came here) and I switched from evening to day, though I'm still taking mostly evening classes since I spend two days a week in the legal dept. at a company in my field. I spent the summer doing public interest work, so I think I can speak credibly to both sides of the equation.

I am paying sticker, with what has turned out to be some help with living expenses from my family. I had no desire at all for biglaw when I came here, but I participated in OCI at the urging of friends. I can and will absolutely say that people with top grades are fairly safe, though there is some disagreement about where the "top grades" line is, and personality still matters here, as it does everywhere. NYC biglaw was the first market to recover, and it is easier to get a biglaw job in New York than in Chicago or (God forbid, top quarter people at UVA have no guarantees here) DC.

This doesn't mean it's easy. I didn't get one. This can be explained at least in part by the fact that I didn't truly want one, and I am not really motivated enough by visions of $$$$ to give up quality of life and personal happiness. I also have an educational background in fashion, which could easily have sent interviewers at large firms running for the hills. In my case, not getting biglaw was a fairly large blessing in disguise, because I would not have been able to turn it down and I know I would have hated it. I believe, given my history at this school and connections I've been able to make, however, that I will either go to a small firm with a high QoL, or some type of nonprofit work. I am flexible, enjoy a great many things, and will take a lower salary plus IBR over golden handcuffs any day of the week.

So here is my analysis. If you CANNOT LIVE without biglaw, going to any school below about CCN is risky business. Some of my favorite people at T14s are still looking, and some of these schools have about half placement at present. Some of my favorite people at CCN are still looking, though the odds there are better. That said, Fordham students will not be unemployed. By graduation, my guess is that about 18-20% of students will have gotten biglaw (see my definition) through OCI, and an additional unknown number (around 10-15%, by my best guess) through family connections or on their own. This definition includes the entire NLJ250, and it is at best an educated guess from talking to my classmates, doing my research, and having this conversation with various school employees. I question everything, and I like to see empirical data, which I won't have until my classmates are well past graduation. Things were marginally better for us than for the class of 2011, because the most elite firms increased class size. Unfortunately, the trend did not necessarily trickle down to the lower half of the V100.

I will finish by saying that nobody knows for sure what the numbers are for my class. No one can give you more than an educated guess, but it is certainly possible to quash some of the misinformation floating around. We won't come close to 40% again, absent a major uptick in the economy and 3L OCI, but 5-10% is equally inaccurate. I have no regrets about paying sticker, but I also view law school as an end in itself. It's changed me in ways I could never have anticipated, and even knowing everything I know, I would do it again.

Thank you for your obvious candor. Great post.

[gbpackerbacker]

My classmate 1Levening2013 is right. He has a lot more work experience than I do (I was only one year out of college when I came here) and I switched from evening to day, though I'm still taking mostly evening classes since I spend two days a week in the legal dept. at a company in my field. I spent the summer doing public interest work, so I think I can speak credibly to both sides of the equation.

I am paying sticker, with what has turned out to be some help with living expenses from my family. I had no desire at all for biglaw when I came here, but I participated in OCI at the urging of friends. I can and will absolutely say that people with top grades are fairly safe, though there is some disagreement about where the "top grades" line is, and personality still matters here, as it does everywhere. NYC biglaw was the first market to recover, and it is easier to get a biglaw job in New York than in Chicago or (God forbid, top quarter people at UVA have no guarantees here) DC.

This doesn't mean it's easy. I didn't get one. This can be explained at least in part by the fact that I didn't truly want one, and I am not really motivated enough by visions of $$$$ to give up quality of life and personal happiness. I also have an educational background in fashion, which could easily have sent interviewers at large firms running for the hills. In my case, not getting biglaw was a fairly large blessing in disguise, because I would not have been able to turn it down and I know I would have hated it. I believe, given my history at this school and connections I've been able to make, however, that I will either go to a small firm with a high QoL, or some type of nonprofit work. I am flexible, enjoy a great many things, and will take a lower salary plus IBR over golden handcuffs any day of the week.

So here is my analysis. If you CANNOT LIVE without biglaw, going to any school below about CCN is risky business. Some of my favorite people at T14s are still looking, and some of these schools have about half placement at present. Some of my favorite people at CCN are still looking, though the odds there are better. That said, Fordham students will not be unemployed. By graduation, my guess is that about 18-20% of students will have gotten biglaw (see my definition) through OCI, and an additional unknown number (around 10-15%, by my best guess) through family connections or on their own. This definition includes the entire NLJ250, and it is at best an educated guess from talking to my classmates, doing my research, and having this conversation with various school employees. I question everything, and I like to see empirical data, which I won't have until my classmates are well past graduation. Things were marginally better for us than for the class of 2011, because the most elite firms increased class size. Unfortunately, the trend did not necessarily trickle down to the lower half of the V100.

I will finish by saying that nobody knows for sure what the numbers are for my class. No one can give you more than an educated guess, but it is certainly possible to quash some of the misinformation floating around. We won't come close to 40% again, absent a major uptick in the economy and 3L OCI, but 5-10% is equally inaccurate. I have no regrets about paying sticker, but I also view law school as an end in itself. It's changed me in ways I could never have anticipated, and even knowing everything I know, I would do it again.

Thank you for your obvious candor. Great post.

Wow. +1

[akcorps]

First of all, ITE any school for any major is no guarantee of anything. Period. You or your brother or whomever needs to understand this. Even once "safe" majors like engineering are not what they used to be (outsourcing, work visas for sub-contracting, etc.). However, remember that the economy goes through boom and bust and if you absolutely cannot ride the waves then you shouldn't think about going into a stressful career track as it is.

Second of all, do not listen to people like CLS. They are everywhere and the bottom line is that they buy into a lot of hot air about how there is only one legal market and it should be reserved for those who managed to make it into the right number buckets. Ridiculous. Do not listen to morons like this. There have been, are, and will continue to be people who graduate from less than T6 or T14 schools who have stellar legal careers. This is a fact, and even a small amount of quick research would back this up. From personal experience, a friend of mine who went to St. John's is presently in a judicial clerkship. Deal with it, CLS, you are in a midlaw position through family because you cannot land something on your own. You lack the entrepreneurial attitude you should have had with work.

Third, I have 15 years of work experience. I worked my way through college, and I have seen who advances and who doesn't. Sometimes credentials get you in, it's true. It can also be alumni networks, which Fordham has in spades when it comes to the NY biglaw market. Most of all, it takes confidence in yourself and the realization that past-performance is no indication of future results. Most CEOs of Fortune 500 companies do not have MBA's for example. Maybe our generation will change that, I have no idea. The truth of the matter is that nobody can tell you whether or not you will be successful in life. You have to have the winning combination of talents, education, intelligence, and networking opportunities. I strongly suspect that CLS has some, but not all of these.

Fourth, and this is probably the answer to the OP, this is a personal decision. What do you want out of it (or you brother in this example)? Do you want biglaw? Do you think that the market will not change in 3 years? Do you think that you would be willing to start off a low wage and work your way up to a higher way within 5 years? Are you willing to go to a lesser school and work your ass off to get into the top 10% of a second tier school instead of remaining in the top half of Fordham? These are things to consider, and they are very much dependent upon your own ambitions. Nobody on a posting board is going to be able to give you a good answer because none of us know you.

Lastly, remember that the baby boomers are beginning to retire. While law has many people who work well past regular retirement age, there is going to be a huge upward trend within all employment categories within the next 10 years. Do not be discouraged by recession fears, I have lived and worked through two of them already, and I was fine and continue to be so. I myself may not like the idea of getting into the amount of debt of Fordham at sticker (irregardless of full time or part-time), but that doesn't mean you should feel the same way I do. Always keep in mind where the advice you accept is coming from and what the motivations are behind the person giving it. For example, why the hell does CLS post on so many Fordham threads?

[Blindmelon]

TCR is this is all about perspective - everyone thinks the best school they can get into is the cut off for good school worth sticker or whatever. I always say I wouldn't go anywhere worse than BU, but thats because thats what I got into - I frankly don't think any law school is worth sticker - its just too much damn money <- but then again, I'm paying 120k for a school that isn't nearly as secure as a lot of others.

I'm sure Yale/Stanford students think Columbia is a festering TTT because employment isn't a given. Its all perspective.

Also - whoever said HYS students don't have social skills or whatever is complete BS. There are people at TTTTs with no social skills, people at HYS that are fine. The issue comes up when you have people who think their pedigree is at the point where they think they're better than everyone else (the CLS troll) - people like that have no social skills. But I think people like him are the exception, not the rule. The fact that he vents on message boards sort of confirms this.

[Stringer6]

I'm sure Yale/Stanford students think Columbia is a festering TTT because employment isn't a given. Its all perspective.

some perspectives, like the one quoted above, are stupid.

[Blindmelon]

I'm sure Yale/Stanford students think Columbia is a festering TTT because employment isn't a given. Its all perspective.

some perspectives, like the one quoted above, are stupid.

I don't disagree. But I think someone asserting that only 5% of Fordham is secure ITE is also a stupid perspective.

[akcorps]

I think anyone announcing any legal job as ever being secure in any economy = logic fail barring an actual offer or equivalent, especially in a ridiculously unpredictable market like this one.

I know I am long winded, but read up on the legal market and long-term trends and think about how you fit into all of this. These 160K jobs that everyone covets are the result of the Cravath model of paying top dollar for top talent, and other firms in the market has followed suit in order to maintain their own prestige and competitiveness. Presently, there has been a HUGE demand for lateral hires, but very little for recent grads. This is mainly due to the business model law firms use being a POS, and a terrible way to run any business. Unfortunately, MBA=/=JD and vice versa. I suspect that as laterals are in higher demand than there is a supply, the hiring will increase for recent grads, but the pay scale may suffer for entry level even at top firms.

The point is this. If you are decent material for being a lawyer, you can lateral up after you have trained at being a lawyer in some firm or another. You do not have to go into biglaw right away to eventually make big money. The bimodal income curve is not the whole story for your career. Lawyers on the whole are very well paid and will continue to be indefinitely for a whole host of reasons. The reasons to not pay sticker price for Fordham are whether or not you want to take your chances on the market right off or whether you want to have greater flexibility in where you receive your actual, practical, how-to-be a lawyer training that follows law school.

[concurrent fork]

I feel like most of the kids that go to HYS and CCN have no social skills, which will deff hinder their chances of getting a job.

Whatever makes you feel better.

How many T6 students do you know btw?

[Cosmo Kramer]

Full tuition certainly isn't a great idea, but whoever said you must be top 5-10% is just ridiculous.

[VictoryFord]

Honestly, top 5% safe for biglaw. 10% for a good chance.

I actually like this flame. paying full tuition at fordham isn't a great idea because a lot of people don't get biglaw, BUT a lot don't get biglaw at nyu/cls either. I think you should flame them too. I'm sure the 30%+ of your classmates who struck out would agree. However, he is right about fordham.

But, for those who want to know for real: top 10% is a safe, while top 33% has a very good chance. I'm not sure about the rest of the top half. i think this seems right?

[MrAnon]

I feel like most of the kids that go to HYS and CCN have no social skills, which will deff hinder their chances of getting a job.

Right. Then why don't firms just go back to high school and pick the 5 coolest kids to be associates? Maybe because they want the smartest kids. The kids at the 40th ranked law school are not that.

[Columbia Law]

I feel like most of the kids that go to HYS and CCN have no social skills, which will deff hinder their chances of getting a job.

Right. Then why don't firms just go back to high school and pick the 5 coolest kids to be associates? Maybe because they want the smartest kids. The kids at the 40th ranked law school are not that.

Talking shitlaw bro, where it is more sales than anything else. Not biglaw.

[Aqualibrium]

Paying full tuition at fordham isn't a great idea because a lot of people don't get biglaw, BUT a lot don't get biglaw at nyu/cls either.

30% < 60%+

[VictoryFord]

Paying full tuition at fordham isn't a great idea because a lot of people don't get biglaw, BUT a lot don't get biglaw at nyu/cls either.

30% < 60%+

I'm sure the 30%+ of your classmates who struck out would agree. However, he is right about fordham.

no way! i was pretty clear that full price at fordham isn't worth it. let me help you out...

is a 1/3 extra chance worth paying 135k+8% interest at cls? (note: you only gain that extra 33% chance if you would have fallen in the bottom two thirds at fordham as well. I think that at least some of those 66-33 pertcentilers at cls/nyu would finish top 1/3 at fordham). My point is, rather than getting 200k in debt to go to cls and competing with peers, with a 33% chance of not getting biglaw, some people should consider taking a scholarship at fordham, beating people with lower LSAT scores and gpas, and then taking biglaw. If they fail to get top 1/3 at fordham, would they have gotten top 2/3 at cls? possibly, but is that chance worth 200k? maybe. some people obviously think so, I'm not as convinced. i think this applies to schools other than fordham who will offer money to cls/nyu admits as well.

[Aqualibrium]

Paying full tuition at fordham isn't a great idea because a lot of people don't get biglaw, BUT a lot don't get biglaw at nyu/cls either.

30% < 60%+

I'm sure the 30%+ of your classmates who struck out would agree. However, he is right about fordham.

no way! i was pretty clear that full price at fordham isn't worth it. let me help you out...

is a 1/3 extra chance worth paying 135k+8% interest at cls? (note: you only gain that extra 33% chance if you would have fallen in the bottom two thirds at fordham as well. I think that at least some of those 66-33 pertcentilers at cls/nyu would finish top 1/3 at fordham). My point is, rather than getting 200k in debt to go to cls and competing with peers, with a 33% chance of not getting biglaw, some people should consider taking a scholarship at fordham, beating people with lower LSAT scores and gpas, and then taking biglaw. If they fail to get top 1/3 at fordham, would they have gotten top 2/3 at cls? possibly, but is that chance worth 200k? maybe. some people obviously think so, I'm not as convinced. i think this applies to schools other than fordham who will offer money to cls/nyu admits as well.

You're missing the fact that 33% and top 1/3 are not the same thing. Regardless though,I find it hard to believe that 33% of Fordham students are getting big law ite.

[VictoryFord]

Paying full tuition at fordham isn't a great idea because a lot of people don't get biglaw, BUT a lot don't get biglaw at nyu/cls either.

30% < 60%+

I'm sure the 30%+ of your classmates who struck out would agree. However, he is right about fordham.

no way! i was pretty clear that full price at fordham isn't worth it. let me help you out...

is a 1/3 extra chance worth paying 135k+8% interest at cls? (note: you only gain that extra 33% chance if you would have fallen in the bottom two thirds at fordham as well. I think that at least some of those 66-33 pertcentilers at cls/nyu would finish top 1/3 at fordham). My point is, rather than getting 200k in debt to go to cls and competing with peers, with a 33% chance of not getting biglaw, some people should consider taking a scholarship at fordham, beating people with lower LSAT scores and gpas, and then taking biglaw. If they fail to get top 1/3 at fordham, would they have gotten top 2/3 at cls? possibly, but is that chance worth 200k? maybe. some people obviously think so, I'm not as convinced. i think this applies to schools other than fordham who will offer money to cls/nyu admits as well.

You're missing the fact that 33% and top 1/3 are not the same thing. Regardless though,33% of Fordham students aren't getting big law ite.

that is true, i bet it's more like a quarter getting it, but I think if you are top 1/3 and don't screw up bidding/interviewing you will get biglaw at fordham. also, we aren't factoring in transfers which probably make up a good percentage of the biglaw number at cls/nyu (5-10%?), but not as much at fordham (where they can't do oci).

[Columbia Law]

30% < 60%+

I'm sure the 30%+ of your classmates who struck out would agree. However, he is right about fordham.

no way! i was pretty clear that full price at fordham isn't worth it. let me help you out...

is a 1/3 extra chance worth paying 135k+8% interest at cls? (note: you only gain that extra 33% chance if you would have fallen in the bottom two thirds at fordham as well. I think that at least some of those 66-33 pertcentilers at cls/nyu would finish top 1/3 at fordham). My point is, rather than getting 200k in debt to go to cls and competing with peers, with a 33% chance of not getting biglaw, some people should consider taking a scholarship at fordham, beating people with lower LSAT scores and gpas, and then taking biglaw. If they fail to get top 1/3 at fordham, would they have gotten top 2/3 at cls? possibly, but is that chance worth 200k? maybe. some people obviously think so, I'm not as convinced. i think this applies to schools other than fordham who will offer money to cls/nyu admits as well.

You're missing the fact that 33% and top 1/3 are not the same thing. Regardless though,33% of Fordham students aren't getting big law ite.

that is true, i bet it's more like a quarter getting it, but I think if you are top 1/3 and don't screw up bidding/interviewing you will get biglaw at fordham. also, we aren't factoring in transfers which probably make up a good percentage of the biglaw number at cls/nyu (5-10%?), but not as much at fordham (where they can't do oci).

33% a Fordham???? OH HAI 2006!

[VictoryFord]

that is true, i bet it's more like a quarter getting it, but I think if you are top 1/3 and don't screw up bidding/interviewing you will get biglaw at fordham. also, we aren't factoring in transfers which probably make up a good percentage of the biglaw number at cls/nyu (5-10%?), but not as much at fordham (where they can't do oci).

33% a Fordham???? OH HAI 2006!

actually oci 2006 the number was around 44% http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... =2&t=61206

I don't know what to tell you if you don't believe that 25% of fordham students are getting biglaw. sorry about your 200k cls diploma


EDIT: also, I want to try and stop the 0Ls from getting buried in debt at schools where they'll have no employment prospects. I thought you were doing the same, just in a more flamey way. BUT I think the actual numbers should do this pretty easily

double edit... i'm done arguing with flames. got to polish up the ol' resume and see what's out there for 2L summer

[MrAnon]

It is not worth it. You can attend a cheaper school anywhere else in the nation. If you do well enough there then you can get a job in NYC. If you do not do well there, well, then you would never have stood a chance at Fordham, and you should be thankful you are no longer pigeonholed into the NYC market.

[Stringer6]

actually oci 2006 the number was around 44%

he's not concerned with facts

[Columbia Law]

that is true, i bet it's more like a quarter getting it, but I think if you are top 1/3 and don't screw up bidding/interviewing you will get biglaw at fordham. also, we aren't factoring in transfers which probably make up a good percentage of the biglaw number at cls/nyu (5-10%?), but not as much at fordham (where they can't do oci).

33% a Fordham???? OH HAI 2006!

actually oci 2006 the number was around 44% http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... =2&t=61206

I don't know what to tell you if you don't believe that 25% of fordham students are getting biglaw. sorry about your 200k cls diploma


EDIT: also, I want to try and stop the 0Ls from getting buried in debt at schools where they'll have no employment prospects. I thought you were doing the same, just in a more flamey way. BUT I think the actual numbers should do this pretty easily

double edit... i'm done arguing with flames. got to polish up the ol' resume and see what's out there for 2L summer

Why are you showing me 2007 and telling me it's 2006? Not saying that I know the exact number off the top of my head. Also not saying that my post wasn't satirical. But where the FUCK in anything you posted does it say the 2006 numbers?

[Stringer6]

But where the FUCK in anything you posted does it say the 2006 numbers?

hahaha

[Ratchet Jackson]

People, please. Do not let Columbia Law attempt to proliferate inaccurate information on this thread. Clearly, he has no experience with starting salaries at law firms across the nation. I have worked at three law firms in the past three years in Los Angeles and Orange County, CA and the file clerks are the only employees that make 35-40k. Paralegals are being brought in at almost $70k, Law Clerks make anywhere from $65-85k, and first year associates at my firm are brought in on the low end at $95k, upwards of $115k. And the firm I work at is mid-range in terms of prestige overall. I work with people who have graduated from Stanford and Columbia Law all the way down to Southwestern and Whittier College in California. It is purely inaccurate to believe that a law degree from Fordham would not enable a prospective attorney to make a comfortable high five figure/low six figure salary. We are all aware that you (Columbia Law) attended CLS. None of us here would ever scoff at your impressive accomplishments, but please do not let this arrogant "I went to the best school in NY state" attitude affect the quality/accuracy of information you post here. Especially when it is not backed up by a shred of empirical evidence or hard data points.