*shakes head* Like kicking an ant colony.talibkweli wrote:their tepid lsat range makes me worry about the quality of class discussion. interesting backgrounds and great essays =/= intellectual horsepower.
there, i said it
Berkeley Haters Forum
- stratocophic
- Posts: 2204
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
- sirchristaylor
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:33 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Of course I have a sense of humor. That's why I'm still laughing at you!talibkweli wrote:ad hominem attack + not having a sense of humor ftw?sirchristaylor wrote:I laugh at you.talibkweli wrote:their laughably tepid lsat range makes me worry about the quality of class discussion. interesting backgrounds and great essays =/= intellectual horsepower.
there, i said it
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
- Dignan
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
I don't understand the argument/sentiment. Each graduate program is, of course, ranked in its own respective area. Are they saying that each program benefits from the exchange of ideas and sharing of resources with other programs? If that's true, it seems like an argument for Berkeley, not against it.deadatheist wrote: fwiw, i [strike]think[/strike] know there's a handful of people in academia who think the reason berkeley's grad programs are ranked so high is bc there are so many of them. there's what... ~30 berkeley grad programs ranked in the top 10 in their respective areas, more so than any other school - does that sound right? some think each program on its own may not be able to hold out such good rankings. don't necessarily buy that, but it is a sentiment out there.
-
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:55 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
in a way it is an argument for berkeley, but it's a bit of a bash against some individual programs. i suppose some people think the programs actually aren't that great - they just get a boost for being part of berkeley (since berkeley already has so many highly ranked grad programs?). really, absurdly dumb analogy that comes to mind? "she'd probably be like a 6 in ny, but she's a 7 in scranton.”Dignan wrote:I don't understand the argument/sentiment. Each graduate program is, of course, ranked in its own respective area. Are they saying that each program benefits from the exchange of ideas and sharing of resources with other programs? If that's true, it seems like an argument for Berkeley, not against it.deadatheist wrote: fwiw, i [strike]think[/strike] know there's a handful of people in academia who think the reason berkeley's grad programs are ranked so high is bc there are so many of them. there's what... ~30 berkeley grad programs ranked in the top 10 in their respective areas, more so than any other school - does that sound right? some think each program on its own may not be able to hold out such good rankings. don't necessarily buy that, but it is a sentiment out there.
please note though, these are just comments i've heard in passing when i worked in academia. not my view, not implying the comments were directed at the law school,and def doesn't explain berkeley hate as discussed per se. but maybe does convey a negative -probably minority- sentiment that i suppose is out there.
- The Brainalist
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:12 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
1. Its University of California at Berkeley. I went to a UC (not one of the flagship ones) and I just am intrinsically not impressed by it. I don't get the rest of the nation's fascination with this public school except as it relates to the 60's, which has nothing to do with the giant public school it is now.
2. It can't even claim to be public as far as the law school goes, because of its desire to phase out in-state tuition. That was the best thing it had going for it. Otherwise, there are intrinsic benefits to attending an ivy-equivalent private school that can't be matched by a University of California. There is something additionally special about going to USC and Stanford that the UC's don't really have.
3. Other than the 60's and Jonathan Yoo, I can't plug in to anything great about berkeley's grads or its profs. No Supreme Court Justices, no presidents or high-level appointments (except Jonathan Yoo). It is ranked high, but there is no mystique.
4. Has been ranked as low as 13th in the last 10 years.
5. People's defense of it comes down to love of California or pure location, which, even as a californian, seems weak. Berkeley ain't that great, and it isn't IN San Francisco. The Bart is pretty weak, Berkeley can be mostly described as Oakland-adjacent, and housing is way overpriced. Most people overstate the attractiveness of the city of berkeley.
6. Defenders are the main proponents of the self-selection defense or the east-coast bias defense. They claim that poor placement in NLJ250 is either because people at berkeley would rather not work at those places, or there aren't that many of them in California. For a number of reasons I don't buy it, but I don't have time to write it all here. Lets just start with the fact that Stanford is in CA and has never had to raise the east-coast bias defense and leave it there for now.
7. Berkeley being tied with Chicago in the rankings seems a joke, for a lot of the above reasons, but for a lot of things that make Chicago a hot topic on these boards. It makes it a nice target to get knocked off a pedestal.
2. It can't even claim to be public as far as the law school goes, because of its desire to phase out in-state tuition. That was the best thing it had going for it. Otherwise, there are intrinsic benefits to attending an ivy-equivalent private school that can't be matched by a University of California. There is something additionally special about going to USC and Stanford that the UC's don't really have.
3. Other than the 60's and Jonathan Yoo, I can't plug in to anything great about berkeley's grads or its profs. No Supreme Court Justices, no presidents or high-level appointments (except Jonathan Yoo). It is ranked high, but there is no mystique.
4. Has been ranked as low as 13th in the last 10 years.
5. People's defense of it comes down to love of California or pure location, which, even as a californian, seems weak. Berkeley ain't that great, and it isn't IN San Francisco. The Bart is pretty weak, Berkeley can be mostly described as Oakland-adjacent, and housing is way overpriced. Most people overstate the attractiveness of the city of berkeley.
6. Defenders are the main proponents of the self-selection defense or the east-coast bias defense. They claim that poor placement in NLJ250 is either because people at berkeley would rather not work at those places, or there aren't that many of them in California. For a number of reasons I don't buy it, but I don't have time to write it all here. Lets just start with the fact that Stanford is in CA and has never had to raise the east-coast bias defense and leave it there for now.
7. Berkeley being tied with Chicago in the rankings seems a joke, for a lot of the above reasons, but for a lot of things that make Chicago a hot topic on these boards. It makes it a nice target to get knocked off a pedestal.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- im_blue
- Posts: 3272
- Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
1. Yeah, everyone in California knows someone who went to Berkeley, so it's not exactly jaw-dropping.The Brainalist wrote:1. Its University of California at Berkeley. I went to a UC (not one of the flagship ones) and I just am intrinsically not impressed by it. I don't get the rest of the nation's fascination with this public school except as it relates to the 60's, which has nothing to do with the giant public school it is now.
2. It can't even claim to be public as far as the law school goes, because of its desire to phase out in-state tuition. That was the best thing it had going for it. Otherwise, there are intrinsic benefits to attending an ivy-equivalent private school that can't be matched by a University of California. There is something additionally special about going to USC and Stanford that the UC's don't really have.
3. Other than the 60's and Jonathan Yoo, I can't plug in to anything great about berkeley's grads or its profs. No Supreme Court Justices, no presidents or high-level appointments (except Jonathan Yoo). It is ranked high, but there is no mystique.
4. Has been ranked as low as 13th in the last 10 years.
5. People's defense of it comes down to love of California or pure location, which, even as a californian, seems weak. Berkeley ain't that great, and it isn't IN San Francisco. The Bart is pretty weak, Berkeley can be mostly described as Oakland-adjacent, and housing is way overpriced. Most people overstate the attractiveness of the city of berkeley.
6. Defenders are the main proponents of the self-selection defense or the east-coast bias defense. They claim that poor placement in NLJ250 is either because people at berkeley would rather not work at those places, or there aren't that many of them in California. For a number of reasons I don't buy it, but I don't have time to write it all here. Lets just start with the fact that Stanford is in CA and has never had to raise the east-coast bias defense and leave it there for now.
7. Berkeley being tied with Chicago in the rankings seems a joke, for a lot of the above reasons, but for a lot of things that make Chicago a hot topic on these boards. It makes it a nice target to get knocked off a pedestal.
3. To be fair, MVP don't have Supreme Court justices or presidents either.
4. Yes, and despite Berkeley's rapid ascent in USNWR, legal perception hasn't quite caught up.
5. Agreed, Stanford and UCLA have much better locations.
-
- Posts: 248
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:18 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
MVPB all have at least one sc justice, i thinkim_blue wrote:1. Yeah, everyone in California knows someone who went to Berkeley, so it's not exactly jaw-dropping.The Brainalist wrote:1. Its University of California at Berkeley. I went to a UC (not one of the flagship ones) and I just am intrinsically not impressed by it. I don't get the rest of the nation's fascination with this public school except as it relates to the 60's, which has nothing to do with the giant public school it is now.
2. It can't even claim to be public as far as the law school goes, because of its desire to phase out in-state tuition. That was the best thing it had going for it. Otherwise, there are intrinsic benefits to attending an ivy-equivalent private school that can't be matched by a University of California. There is something additionally special about going to USC and Stanford that the UC's don't really have.
3. Other than the 60's and Jonathan Yoo, I can't plug in to anything great about berkeley's grads or its profs. No Supreme Court Justices, no presidents or high-level appointments (except Jonathan Yoo). It is ranked high, but there is no mystique.
4. Has been ranked as low as 13th in the last 10 years.
5. People's defense of it comes down to love of California or pure location, which, even as a californian, seems weak. Berkeley ain't that great, and it isn't IN San Francisco. The Bart is pretty weak, Berkeley can be mostly described as Oakland-adjacent, and housing is way overpriced. Most people overstate the attractiveness of the city of berkeley.
6. Defenders are the main proponents of the self-selection defense or the east-coast bias defense. They claim that poor placement in NLJ250 is either because people at berkeley would rather not work at those places, or there aren't that many of them in California. For a number of reasons I don't buy it, but I don't have time to write it all here. Lets just start with the fact that Stanford is in CA and has never had to raise the east-coast bias defense and leave it there for now.
7. Berkeley being tied with Chicago in the rankings seems a joke, for a lot of the above reasons, but for a lot of things that make Chicago a hot topic on these boards. It makes it a nice target to get knocked off a pedestal.
3. To be fair, MVP don't have Supreme Court justices or presidents either.
4. Yes, and despite Berkeley's rapid ascent in USNWR, legal perception hasn't quite caught up.
5. Agreed, Stanford and UCLA have much better locations.
-
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:35 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Ever heard of Chief Justice Earl Warren?Tofu wrote:MVPB all have at least one sc justice, i thinkim_blue wrote:1. Yeah, everyone in California knows someone who went to Berkeley, so it's not exactly jaw-dropping.The Brainalist wrote:1. Its University of California at Berkeley. I went to a UC (not one of the flagship ones) and I just am intrinsically not impressed by it. I don't get the rest of the nation's fascination with this public school except as it relates to the 60's, which has nothing to do with the giant public school it is now.
2. It can't even claim to be public as far as the law school goes, because of its desire to phase out in-state tuition. That was the best thing it had going for it. Otherwise, there are intrinsic benefits to attending an ivy-equivalent private school that can't be matched by a University of California. There is something additionally special about going to USC and Stanford that the UC's don't really have.
3. Other than the 60's and Jonathan Yoo, I can't plug in to anything great about berkeley's grads or its profs. No Supreme Court Justices, no presidents or high-level appointments (except Jonathan Yoo). It is ranked high, but there is no mystique.
4. Has been ranked as low as 13th in the last 10 years.
5. People's defense of it comes down to love of California or pure location, which, even as a californian, seems weak. Berkeley ain't that great, and it isn't IN San Francisco. The Bart is pretty weak, Berkeley can be mostly described as Oakland-adjacent, and housing is way overpriced. Most people overstate the attractiveness of the city of berkeley.
6. Defenders are the main proponents of the self-selection defense or the east-coast bias defense. They claim that poor placement in NLJ250 is either because people at berkeley would rather not work at those places, or there aren't that many of them in California. For a number of reasons I don't buy it, but I don't have time to write it all here. Lets just start with the fact that Stanford is in CA and has never had to raise the east-coast bias defense and leave it there for now.
7. Berkeley being tied with Chicago in the rankings seems a joke, for a lot of the above reasons, but for a lot of things that make Chicago a hot topic on these boards. It makes it a nice target to get knocked off a pedestal.
3. To be fair, MVP don't have Supreme Court justices or presidents either.
4. Yes, and despite Berkeley's rapid ascent in USNWR, legal perception hasn't quite caught up.
5. Agreed, Stanford and UCLA have much better locations.
- Dignan
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Thank you. Yeah, no one of note has graduated from Berkeley, except for a guy who happens to be the most famous supreme court justice of the 20th century.jimmyd11011 wrote:Ever heard of Chief Justice Earl Warren?Tofu wrote:MVPB all have at least one sc justice, i thinkim_blue wrote:1. Yeah, everyone in California knows someone who went to Berkeley, so it's not exactly jaw-dropping.The Brainalist wrote:1. Its University of California at Berkeley. I went to a UC (not one of the flagship ones) and I just am intrinsically not impressed by it. I don't get the rest of the nation's fascination with this public school except as it relates to the 60's, which has nothing to do with the giant public school it is now.
2. It can't even claim to be public as far as the law school goes, because of its desire to phase out in-state tuition. That was the best thing it had going for it. Otherwise, there are intrinsic benefits to attending an ivy-equivalent private school that can't be matched by a University of California. There is something additionally special about going to USC and Stanford that the UC's don't really have.
3. Other than the 60's and Jonathan Yoo, I can't plug in to anything great about berkeley's grads or its profs. No Supreme Court Justices, no presidents or high-level appointments (except Jonathan Yoo). It is ranked high, but there is no mystique.
4. Has been ranked as low as 13th in the last 10 years.
5. People's defense of it comes down to love of California or pure location, which, even as a californian, seems weak. Berkeley ain't that great, and it isn't IN San Francisco. The Bart is pretty weak, Berkeley can be mostly described as Oakland-adjacent, and housing is way overpriced. Most people overstate the attractiveness of the city of berkeley.
6. Defenders are the main proponents of the self-selection defense or the east-coast bias defense. They claim that poor placement in NLJ250 is either because people at berkeley would rather not work at those places, or there aren't that many of them in California. For a number of reasons I don't buy it, but I don't have time to write it all here. Lets just start with the fact that Stanford is in CA and has never had to raise the east-coast bias defense and leave it there for now.
7. Berkeley being tied with Chicago in the rankings seems a joke, for a lot of the above reasons, but for a lot of things that make Chicago a hot topic on these boards. It makes it a nice target to get knocked off a pedestal.
3. To be fair, MVP don't have Supreme Court justices or presidents either.
4. Yes, and despite Berkeley's rapid ascent in USNWR, legal perception hasn't quite caught up.
5. Agreed, Stanford and UCLA have much better locations.
-
- Posts: 6244
- Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
These threads bring out the worst this community has to offer
Last edited by Borhas on Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- rayiner
- Posts: 6145
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
Pwnt.jimmyd11011 wrote:Ever heard of Chief Justice Earl Warren?Tofu wrote:MVPB all have at least one sc justice, i thinkim_blue wrote:1. Yeah, everyone in California knows someone who went to Berkeley, so it's not exactly jaw-dropping.The Brainalist wrote:1. Its University of California at Berkeley. I went to a UC (not one of the flagship ones) and I just am intrinsically not impressed by it. I don't get the rest of the nation's fascination with this public school except as it relates to the 60's, which has nothing to do with the giant public school it is now.
2. It can't even claim to be public as far as the law school goes, because of its desire to phase out in-state tuition. That was the best thing it had going for it. Otherwise, there are intrinsic benefits to attending an ivy-equivalent private school that can't be matched by a University of California. There is something additionally special about going to USC and Stanford that the UC's don't really have.
3. Other than the 60's and Jonathan Yoo, I can't plug in to anything great about berkeley's grads or its profs. No Supreme Court Justices, no presidents or high-level appointments (except Jonathan Yoo). It is ranked high, but there is no mystique.
4. Has been ranked as low as 13th in the last 10 years.
5. People's defense of it comes down to love of California or pure location, which, even as a californian, seems weak. Berkeley ain't that great, and it isn't IN San Francisco. The Bart is pretty weak, Berkeley can be mostly described as Oakland-adjacent, and housing is way overpriced. Most people overstate the attractiveness of the city of berkeley.
6. Defenders are the main proponents of the self-selection defense or the east-coast bias defense. They claim that poor placement in NLJ250 is either because people at berkeley would rather not work at those places, or there aren't that many of them in California. For a number of reasons I don't buy it, but I don't have time to write it all here. Lets just start with the fact that Stanford is in CA and has never had to raise the east-coast bias defense and leave it there for now.
7. Berkeley being tied with Chicago in the rankings seems a joke, for a lot of the above reasons, but for a lot of things that make Chicago a hot topic on these boards. It makes it a nice target to get knocked off a pedestal.
3. To be fair, MVP don't have Supreme Court justices or presidents either.
4. Yes, and despite Berkeley's rapid ascent in USNWR, legal perception hasn't quite caught up.
5. Agreed, Stanford and UCLA have much better locations.
- ShibaDan
- Posts: 337
- Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:34 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
I actually haven't heard much hating on Berk, much more on Cornell and G-town, which is to be expected given they are at the bottom of the T14 and most people here have an HYS or bust attitude.
- James Bond
- Posts: 2344
- Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:53 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
TITCRvanwinkle wrote:I always figured it was all the unbathed hippies.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:44 am
-
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
-
Last edited by fortissimo on Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
-
Last edited by fortissimo on Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- daesonesb
- Posts: 499
- Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:18 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
I went there, and thought that berkeley was a pretty awesome city. I'd love to live there.The Brainalist wrote: 5. People's defense of it comes down to love of California or pure location, which, even as a californian, seems weak. Berkeley ain't that great, and it isn't IN San Francisco. The Bart is pretty weak, Berkeley can be mostly described as Oakland-adjacent, and housing is way overpriced. Most people overstate the attractiveness of the city of berkeley.
-
- Posts: 248
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:18 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
wiliam rufus day, but yeahfortissimo wrote: Michigan Law graduated Supreme Court justices William Day Rufus, Frank Murphy, and George Sutherland....
i didn't feel like listing MVPBs' justices haha
-
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 am
Re: Berkeley Haters
-
Last edited by fortissimo on Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
-
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:05 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
.
Last edited by LSlobbyist on Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- Aeon
- Posts: 583
- Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:46 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
Considering that Ken is a Boalt alumnus, I'd think there's actually a decent pro-Berkeley contingent here on TLS. ![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
![Cool 8)](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
- crackberry
- Posts: 3252
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
While I agree that Berkeley's ranking seems a bit inflated (I think it is firmly below HYSCC but on par with NYU and MVP), I absolutely love the school. People on here who think its grad programs' rankings are inflated know nothing and all the California haters are just resorting to inane ad hominem attacks that have little to no relevance on this discussion. New Haven sucks. No one is bashing Yale. Morons.
- Tangerine Gleam
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:50 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
+1. Changed America forever; no big deal.jimmyd11011 wrote:
Ever heard of Chief Justice Earl Warren?
- The Brainalist
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:12 pm
Re: Berkeley Haters
This has to be my favorite kind of arguing that takes place on TLS.crackberry wrote:While I agree that Berkeley's ranking seems a bit inflated (I think it is firmly below HYSCC but on par with NYU and MVP), I absolutely love the school. People on here who think its grad programs' rankings are inflated know nothing and all the California haters are just resorting to inane ad hominem attacks that have little to no relevance on this discussion. New Haven sucks. No one is bashing Yale. Morons.
Thanks for the Warren reminder. It does actually help me have a more positive image of berkeley in my mind (although I still don't have any good recent affiliations other than Yoo).
I'm not saying Berkeley sucks, I'm just saying its overhyped and oversold. Berkeley's pretty nice, but not hands down the best place ever. At the end of the day, there are great things to be said about living in NY, Chicago, DC, and Boston. There are great things to be said about schools located in San Francisco, which Berkeley is not. But for certain people, it isn't even a question worth exploring: Could there be some value in leaving your nest in California and living in another major metropolitan city for a couple years? It is as if berkeley lovers have joined some kind of cult and can't be reasoned with. ITT, for example, 2/3 of berkeley's favorable arguments go like this: <3 [end rationale].
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login