Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School: #TrustTheProcess Forum

[rpupkin]

I hope this thread is the final nail in the coffin for garbage schools like Cornell, Michigan, GULC, and Penn

What?!?!? Michigan is ascendant. A +7 rise here, a +3 rise in USNWR. At first, I thought Michigan was merely trying to scratch and claw its way back into the ol' MVPB tier of the late oughts. But I am sensing greater ambitions. By 2018, we're going to be talking about CCM.

[gazorpazorp]

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[rpupkin]

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. The hiring plan was effectively dissolved by 2012. This is just pure BS from Cornell.

Sure, a ton of judges had moved off-plan, but Cornell students in c/o 2014 continued getting clerkships with on-plan judges during their 2L summer.

Yeah, and so did students at all of the other law schools.

The biggest unraveling of the plan happened for the classes of 2012 and 2013. By the class of 2014 (and certainly by the class of 2015), everyone knew that you applied to judges both on and off plan.

Look, I appreciate that Cornell is embarrassed by its clerkship placement; they had to say something. But what they came up with is complete nonsense.

[Tiago Splitter]

Absolutely disturbing numbers from GULC. Their current offer blows my other TTTop choice of the water (Michigan), but this is going to be a tougher call than I thought.

Just look at GULC the way you'd look at UCLA/Vandy/UT. GULC is probably still better than those given the PI/Gov self-selection, but even if it isn't going to one of those places for like 10k a year wouldn't be frowned upon in this establishment.

[Biglaw1990]

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[gazorpazorp]

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[star fox]

If some brave soul wants to post something like 3 year averages now that things have sort of stabilized out across the landscape in terms of entry level hiring that would probably be more useful to 0Ls considering intra-school wild swings from year to year (Generic T14 +8, different Generic T14 -8) are just noise. Employers aren't FLEEING Cornell in droves or anything, these numbers are real people and the number of people included in these numbers are not such a large sample (200 something a lot of times) that a year to year swing (good or bad) in percentages can easily just be based on a bunch of factors relating to who those individual people are. Increasing the sample by looking at numbers for more than just the most recent year is going to be more beneficial. TLDR; focus not on trends but broader data.

As for Georgetown, they have a small endowment so they want as much tuition dollars as possible in order to be a "preftigious law school" that has all the things "preftigious law schools" have. They're not gonna cut their class size or stop taking in a bunch of transfers if they really don't have to.

[Biglaw1990]

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[Lavitz]

Yeah, and so did students at all of the other law schools.

The biggest unraveling of the plan happened for the classes of 2012 and 2013. By the class of 2014 (and certainly by the class of 2015), everyone knew that you applied to judges both on and off plan.

Look, I appreciate that Cornell is embarrassed by its clerkship placement; they had to say something. But what they came up with is complete nonsense.

Let's back up. Cornell has not said anything. These are my explanations. So if you want to call my explanation nonsense, that's fine. But my explanation was not "the plan fell apart." My explanation was "the plan fell apart and we had no clerkship person helping anyone at that time." I'm willing to admit maybe that doesn't explain much because everyone should have already known that they should be applying to on and off-plan judges. After all, the c/o 2014 managed. But, based on my personal experiences with the PI office when they were in charge of clerkships, I can tell you that they were not good at conveying info. Even when they finally realized that they needed to explain to 1Ls that they should get ready to apply during 2L, they neglected to tell any of us how to apply via paper apps; it was all about using OSCAR. Hence my explanation about why clerkship numbers were down: there was little institutional support at a time when it was needed. Also, I stand by my personal knowledge of the c/o 2015 and their lack of interest in clerking compared with my class and the class before them. And so they ended up with 7 people with federal clerkships right after graduation. A few others who caught on later and got them in 2016. Then we got a clerkship coordinator, smaller class sizes, and a push for faculty to make more calls.

That's the context of what happened over here. Yes, our numbers sucked. It was probably a combination of the school's fault and general lack of interest. The school has increased institutional support. That's all I wanted to say.

[dietcoke1]

Berkeley is up

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/wp-content ... f-2015.pdf

[stretchedtoothin]

Berkeley is up

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/wp-content ... f-2015.pdf

these numbers are meh, even if you add PI gigs . . . what gives?

[UVAIce]

~56% BL + FC, not exactly a stellar showing by Berkeley.

[yost]

Berkeley is up

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/wp-content ... f-2015.pdf

56.4%

[Tiago Splitter]

Berkeley is up

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/wp-content ... f-2015.pdf

these numbers are meh, even if you add PI gigs . . . what gives?

Class size has increased since then too.

[rpupkin]

Berkeley is up

https://www.law.berkeley.edu/wp-content ... f-2015.pdf

these numbers are meh, even if you add PI gigs . . . what gives?

Interesting. They have over 30 grads (over 10% of the class) at firms with fewer than 100 attorneys, which is a high number for a T14.

[yost]

Cornell people: I know you're not used to this like I am (Michigan), but people are half kidding. Also, 7% of a 180-person class is 12 people. That's six additional people striking out and six choosing PI, or whatever story you want to come up with. The numbers are surprising given the rest of the T14, but this is hardly a big deal.

[Leonardo DiCaprio]

GULC is still the most prestigious Law Center in the country

[Dr. Nefario]

BU Law is 39% biglaw(100+)+clerkship

This is roughly the same as 2014, but 2013 was 29%.

at least according to this
http://www.bu.edu/law/careers/employmen ... s-of-2015/


ETA: corrected and this is all ten months after grad

[UVAIce]

NYU has self-published numbers that when roughly calculated equal to about ~67% FC + BL. It really looks like everyone was fairly stable with some noise.

[star fox]

Clerkships outside of Yale, Harvard, and Stanford are going to be such a small % of the class generally, and only really going to be in play for a small % of the class to begin with that it's an area where whoever at the school is running Clerkships are a particular time and without a doubt, self-interest, are really going to make a major difference year to year. At the end of the day, we're talking about the difference between 19 people having a Federal Clerkship and 7 people having one. When the class size is under 200 that's a big swing in percentages, but probably not super indicative of one's ability to obtain a clerkship out of Cornell.

[UVAIce]

Cornell people: I know you're not used to this like I am (Michigan), but people are half kidding. Also, 7% of a 180-person class is 12 people. That's six additional people striking out and six choosing PI, or whatever story you want to come up with. The numbers are surprising given the rest of the T14, but this is hardly a big deal.

And you'll see that the biggest percentage changes in BL+FC are from smaller schools.

[sudijajd]

Berkeley: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/wp-content ... f-2015.pdf

[BigZuck]

I hope this thread is the final nail in the coffin for garbage schools like Cornell, Michigan, GULC, and Penn

What?!?!? Michigan is ascendant. A +7 rise here, a +3 rise in USNWR. At first, I thought Michigan was merely trying to scratch and claw its way back into the ol' MVPB tier of the late oughts. But I am sensing greater ambitions. By 2018, we're going to be talking about CCM.

Gonna need a ruling from the mods on whether it's acceptable for an adcom to masquerade as a practicing attorney before I comment on this one rpumpkin.

Or should I say, rzearfoss???

(Mods plz)

Anyway Berkeley is dead to me too. Shut it down.

[jbagelboy]

Yeah, and so did students at all of the other law schools.

The biggest unraveling of the plan happened for the classes of 2012 and 2013. By the class of 2014 (and certainly by the class of 2015), everyone knew that you applied to judges both on and off plan.

Look, I appreciate that Cornell is embarrassed by its clerkship placement; they had to say something. But what they came up with is complete nonsense.

Let's back up. Cornell has not said anything. These are my explanations. So if you want to call my explanation nonsense, that's fine. But my explanation was not "the plan fell apart." My explanation was "the plan fell apart and we had no clerkship person helping anyone at that time." I'm willing to admit maybe that doesn't explain much because everyone should have already known that they should be applying to on and off-plan judges. After all, the c/o 2014 managed. But, based on my personal experiences with the PI office when they were in charge of clerkships, I can tell you that they were not good at conveying info. Even when they finally realized that they needed to explain to 1Ls that they should get ready to apply during 2L, they neglected to tell any of us how to apply via paper apps; it was all about using OSCAR. Hence my explanation about why clerkship numbers were down: there was little institutional support at a time when it was needed. Also, I stand by my personal knowledge of the c/o 2015 and their lack of interest in clerking compared with my class and the class before them. And so they ended up with 7 people with federal clerkships right after graduation. A few others who caught on later and got them in 2016. Then we got a clerkship coordinator, smaller class sizes, and a push for faculty to make more calls.

That's the context of what happened over here. Yes, our numbers sucked. It was probably a combination of the school's fault and general lack of interest. The school has increased institutional support. That's all I wanted to say.

Hes completely trolling you bro

[jnwa]

I hope this thread is the final nail in the coffin for garbage schools like Cornell, Michigan, GULC, and Penn

What?!?!? Michigan is ascendant. A +7 rise here, a +3 rise in USNWR. At first, I thought Michigan was merely trying to scratch and claw its way back into the ol' MVPB tier of the late oughts. But I am sensing greater ambitions. By 2018, we're going to be talking about CCM.

Shrink the class size to 50, cut out all the PI losers. 100% employment/100% BL+FC. HYM.