2014 Rankings Released Forum

[Bildungsroman]

I think we can all agree that if a graduate is able to secure a position at any hard to attain PI job (whether that's 100% of all PI jobs, or 90%, etc.), said graduate would have been able to attain biglaw and/or an AIII clerkship.

What the hell are you talking about? In what universe can you assume that someone who is able to secure one position is therefore able to secure another? Are you a 0L or something? Are you guys seriously thinking that employment prsopects is a numbers game like LS admissions? I think I'm done trying to make any sense of this drivel.

Listening to 0Ls talking about how to get legal jobs with other 0Ls is frighteningly idiotic

Dood has almost 300 posts on top-law-schools.com doe; he must be some kind of expert.

[rad lulz]

I think we can all agree that if a graduate is able to secure a position at any hard to attain PI job (whether that's 100% of all PI jobs, or 90%, etc.), said graduate would have been able to attain biglaw and/or an AIII clerkship.

What the hell are you talking about? In what universe can you assume that someone who is able to secure one position is therefore able to secure another? Are you a 0L or something? Are you guys seriously thinking that employment prsopects is a numbers game like LS admissions? I think I'm done trying to make any sense of this drivel.

Listening to 0Ls talking about how to get legal jobs with other 0Ls is frighteningly idiotic

Dood has almost 300 posts on top-law-schools.com doe; he must be some kind of expert.

Dude I bet his dad is the hiring atty at a rlly preftigious PI org and he is just stylin on all of us

[Bildungsroman]

Dude I bet his dad is the hiring atty at a rlly preftigious PI org and he is just stylin on all of us

Nah he heard it firsthand from a 1L who talked with a partner at a meet-and-greet.

[Void]

I think we can all agree that if a graduate is able to secure a position at any hard to attain PI job (whether that's 100% of all PI jobs, or 90%, etc.), said graduate would have been able to attain biglaw and/or an AIII clerkship.

What the hell are you talking about? In what universe can you assume that someone who is able to secure one position is therefore able to secure another? Are you a 0L or something? Are you guys seriously thinking that employment prsopects is a numbers game like LS admissions? I think I'm done trying to make any sense of this drivel.

Listening to 0Ls talking about how to get legal jobs with other 0Ls is frighteningly idiotic

Dood has almost 300 posts on top-law-schools.com doe; he must be some kind of expert.

Oh snap you're right- he has more top-law-schools.com poasts than I do. I retract my experience-based knowledge and defer to his nonsensical speculation.

[rad lulz]

Dude I bet his dad is the hiring atty at a rlly preftigious PI org and he is just stylin on all of us

Nah he heard it firsthand from a 1L who talked with a partner at a meet-and-greet.

I'm impressed; it don't get much better than that level of experience and research

[JamesDean1955]

I think we can all agree that if a graduate is able to secure a position at any hard to attain PI job (whether that's 100% of all PI jobs, or 90%, etc.), said graduate would have been able to attain biglaw and/or an AIII clerkship.

What the hell are you talking about? In what universe can you assume that someone who is able to secure one position is therefore able to secure another? Are you a 0L or something? Are you guys seriously thinking that employment prsopects is a numbers game like LS admissions? I think I'm done trying to make any sense of this drivel.

Yes, I am an 0L, and yes, I don't know much about PI jobs, but anyone with a little common sense can figure out ranking schools based on employment numbers (based on all the publicly available data we now have).

And regarding the bolded, what the fuck are you talking about Void? Are you a fucking moron? What a goddamn over-generalization. Um, yes, a lot of jobs are actually a numbers game. One of the most common things said on TLS (and I have personally observed from working in biglaw you fucking twat) is how grades oriented clerkship and biglaw hiring is.

And in what universe can you assume someone who can land one job can land another? Oh, idk, people who can land AIII clerkships can pften land biglaw, given that they are both primarily based on grades and the former requires equal or greater grades to obtain than the latter.

So, Void, how about you just shut the fuck up? I'm done with responding to POS TLSers like yourself.

[rad lulz]

Yes, I am an 0L

This is where I stopped reading

[Void]

Yes, I am an 0L

This is where I stopped reading

But he works in biglaw, you twat.

[Bildungsroman]

Yes, I am an 0L, and yes, I don't know much about PI jobs

Stopped reading here b/c quality post. I assume the rest was about something unrelated to legal employment.

[rad lulz]

Yes, I am an 0L

This is where I stopped reading

But he works in biglaw, you twat.

oh SHIT bro

Aren't you looking for a job?

I hope we didn't piss him off

This could be the chance to probe the brain

Of a job-search masterman

[Bildungsroman]

Yes, I am an 0L

This is where I stopped reading

But he works in biglaw, you twat.

oh SHIT bro

Aren't you looking for a job?

I hope we didn't piss him off

This could be the chance to probe the brain

Of a job-search masterman

Maybe he can tell us some protips from the interviews he's conducted for summer associate hiring.

Don't worry that it will take too much time. We're not asking for the entire drawn-out explanation, just the tip.

[battlerifle13]

Honestly, all JamesDean wants is people to assure him that he is attending a school superior to Michigan, Virginia and Berkeley. Give him peace. Go Penn!

[Void]

I think we can all agree that as long as law students have good grades, they're equally likely to get biglaw, federal clerkships, or pretigious and important PI jerbs. I mean, the whole devestating legal employment crisis thingie was caused by a sudden shortage of law students with good grades, amirite?. But the 0Ls in this thread will have great grades because they will try super hard- and if things don't work out they'll just grab one of those public interest jobs that is handed to them on a silver platter just because they have achieved law student status. That's how it works, you twats.

[grapefruits]

I think we can all agree that if a graduate is able to secure a position at any hard to attain PI job (whether that's 100% of all PI jobs, or 90%, etc.), said graduate would have been able to attain biglaw and/or an AIII clerkship.

What the hell are you talking about? In what universe can you assume that someone who is able to secure one position is therefore able to secure another? Are you a 0L or something? Are you guys seriously thinking that employment prsopects is a numbers game like LS admissions? I think I'm done trying to make any sense of this drivel.

Yes, I am an 0L, and yes, I don't know much about PI jobs, but anyone with a little common sense can figure out ranking schools based on employment numbers (based on all the publicly available data we now have).

And regarding the bolded, what the fuck are you talking about Void? Are you a fucking moron? What a goddamn over-generalization. Um, yes, a lot of jobs are actually a numbers game. One of the most common things said on TLS (and I have personally observed from working in biglaw you fucking twat) is how grades oriented clerkship and biglaw hiring is.

And in what universe can you assume someone who can land one job can land another? Oh, idk, people who can land AIII clerkships can pften land biglaw, given that they are both primarily based on grades and the former requires equal or greater grades to obtain than the latter.

So, Void, how about you just shut the fuck up? I'm done with responding to POS TLSers like yourself.

Damn bruh, u mad.

[Antrim]

[04102014]

Honestly, all JamesDean wants is people to assure him that he is attending a school superior to Michigan, Virginia and Berkeley. Give him peace. Go Penn!

[JCougar]

Public interest has totally different requirements that Biglaw/Clerkships. They care less about grades and more about a background that demonstrates interest in the field. More prestigious PI does still tend to be elitist re: law schools, though. If you want to work at the ACLU or The Southern Poverty Law Center, you better go to Berkeley or better.

Someone in the top third at Columbia with an i-banking background and a summer internship at SullCrom is going to have a much more difficult (read: nearly impossible) time securing a position at the SPLC than someone with median grades from Berkeley that interned with the ACLU 1L summer and worked in public interest for two years before attending law school.

And the converse is not true. Someone with median grades from Berkeley will not land a gig with SullCrom nor will they get an Article III clerkship. Nor are they even a lock for any Biglaw at all.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Yeah graduates who get PI often have the worst grades but show the most commitment. Honestly if you are below median at most law schools after 1L you should either drop out or start on the PI track. Now, this is usually not for federal level PI, and maybe dean meant something different than say, a Public Defender, when he said "good PI."

I know PD types here that already have offers and have a B- average. This is the bottom of the class. These people aren't getting Art lll clerkships.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

What would be an example of a shit PI job? Other than school funded jobs that lead to nowhere

Problem with this is, at my school pretty much all the school funded group who were placed in DA offices found placement, likewise with the PDs and city attorneys. Being able to earn a salary to essentially volunteer at a PDs office for 6 months is huge. Even if that office doesn't have an opening the graduate will get experience and rec letters. Something like 13 of the 16 from 2011 were at these offices, and within a year they were all placed or took another full time legal jerb. I guess I'm sympathetic to school funded because I'm sure at a lot of schools it is massively helpful.

My biggest issue is counting these school funded jobs as long term. Many schools, W&M with 40 and GW with 80, count 100% of these as long term. That's just kinda lying.

[eph]

Yeah graduates who get PI often have the worst grades but show the most commitment. Honestly if you are below median at most law schools after 1L you should either drop out or start on the PI track. Now, this is usually not for federal level PI, and maybe dean meant something different than say, a Public Defender, when he said "good PI."

I know PD types here that already have offers and have a B- average. This is the bottom of the class. These people aren't getting Art lll clerkships.

Drop out. That's kind of funny. What do you think the drop out rate is at the t14?

[dixiecupdrinking]

What would be an example of a shit PI job? Other than school funded jobs that lead to nowhere

Problem with this is, at my school pretty much all the school funded group who were placed in DA offices found placement, likewise with the PDs and city attorneys. Being able to earn a salary to essentially volunteer at a PDs office for 6 months is huge. Even if that office doesn't have an opening the graduate will get experience and rec letters. Something like 13 of the 16 from 2011 were at these offices, and within a year they were all placed or took another full time legal jerb. I guess I'm sympathetic to school funded because I'm sure at a lot of schools it is massively helpful.

My biggest issue is counting these school funded jobs as long term. Many schools, W&M with 40 and GW with 80, count 100% of these as long term. That's just kinda lying.

Public interest is just such a wild card that all you can do is take the employment numbers with a grain of salt. In my opinion, it also means when looking at employment numbers, people ought to give the benefit of the doubt to schools that tend toward having student bodies more interested in public interest and government, like NYU, Berkeley, Georgetown, because a bigger chunk of that "public interest" percentage probably opted into it—even the ones who ended up getting school funded jobs. I say that because as a student at one of these schools I can think of probably between 5-10% of the class just off the top of my head who never had any interest in working for a law firm. But it's fair to be skeptical of the numbers, it just is not the kind of thing that is easily broken down into "shit PI" and "desirable PI" based on the data, as crazy as that tends to make hyper-rational 0Ls trying to make the right decision.

[seacow]

So t-minus 24 hours eh?

Will the new employment data for c/o 2012 be included?

[resnez]

So t-minus 24 hours eh?

Will the new employment data for c/o 2012 be included?

set your phone's countdown

[wannabelawstudent]

So t-minus 24 hours eh?

Will the new employment data for c/o 2012 be included?

i've heard rumors that they will prematurely leak any minute this morning, hence i can't sleep.

They usually leak a couple of hours before midnight.....so I don't know if id stay up....

[qwertyboard]

it was leaked that members of the top 10 group remain the same.. I bet that Penn and Berkley will change positions.. does it matter? no