Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships) Forum

[Stringer Bell]

I agree with your assumptions, and this list obviously has a high probability of looking different with '09 clerkship data, but I think assuming static clerkship placement is more useful than just looking at '08. I work on an analytics desk and we make these kinds of assumptions internally in the absence of actual data when we have to. You just have to understand you are dealing with incomplete data.

The conclusion that you can draw from this is that the '09 placement breakout by school MIGHT look different than most of us thought it would.

So in your job they think it's a good idea to assume that data will remain consistent from one year to the next even when there are major reasons for believing things will be very different, and when the release of similar data has already confirmed that things will be very different?

I'm no analyst but that seems like a stupid idea.

Also, just FYI. Wrong data =/= "incomplete data".

In all honesty we would try to dig further and find out the answers to questions like what % of each school that tries for clerkships gets them and extrapolate that across the theoretical % of no offered students that will be looking for clerkships. For example, I might take a clerkship or two from each school and give it to Harvard. My point was that to predict what '09 looked like, I would rather have data for one variable and make a very crude assumption for another piece than just look at '08.

[Stringer Bell]

Except NLJ data on its own is more valuable than NLJ + misused clerkship data

They each have their own merits.

[kittenmittons]

Except NLJ data on its own is more valuable than NLJ + misused clerkship data

They each have their own merits.

Incorrect. The second one has no merit.

hth

[RVP11]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

[kittenmittons]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

I just don't see the benefit

[Kronk]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

In a fluctuating economy it makes no sense to combined outdated data with actual data. hth

[09042014]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

I just don't see the benefit

Pretend you are going to UVa and feel inferior about your school (for some unknown reason, wtf is it always UVa students?!?).

Now do you see it?

[Fancy Pants]

Except NLJ data on its own is more valuable than NLJ + misused clerkship data

They each have their own merits.

Incorrect. The second one has no merit.

hth

Credited.

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

Who is complaining about the "resulting ranks"? We're complaining about the uselessness of it all.

This is a neat graph:



It's also useless. And if you posted a thread about it, I would post about how it's a useless graph that doesn't tell you anything worthwhile. And if you tried to say it was better than having no graph at all, I would say that's stupid.

[Stringer Bell]

Except NLJ data on its own is more valuable than NLJ + misused clerkship data

They each have their own merits.

Incorrect. The second one has no merit.

hth

You are completely wrong. A more useful data set might be '09 NLJ plus a 3 year average of clerkship data. You could also throw in a 3 year average of academia and make assumptions on prestigous PI too.

The point is that in the real world people do analysis with incomplete numbers numbers and assumptions instead of saying "eff it, I'm not looking at this until I have actuals." hth

[kittenmittons]

Except NLJ data on its own is more valuable than NLJ + misused clerkship data

They each have their own merits.

Incorrect. The second one has no merit.

hth

You are completely wrong. A more useful data set might be '09 NLJ plus a 3 year average of clerkship data. You could also throw in a 3 year average of academia and make assumptions on prestigous PI too.

The point is that in the real world people do analysis with incomplete numbers numbers and assumptions instead of saying "eff it, I'm not looking at this until I have actuals." hth

We have actuals. Now we are just extrapolating with weak data for fun. How is this hard?

[Stringer Bell]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

In a fluctuating economy it makes no sense to combined outdated data with actual data. hth

Yep. It's much better to just look at old data by itself and project from there.

[RVP11]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

In a fluctuating economy it makes no sense to combined outdated data with actual data. hth

Ending snarky comments with "hth" does not add any force to your points. 0L.

[kittenmittons]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

In a fluctuating economy it makes no sense to combined outdated data with actual data. hth

Ending snarky comments with "hth" does not add any force to your points. 0L.

To be fair, neither does ending it with 0L.

hth

[09042014]

Here is 2008, Yale has an unknown NLJ 250 so it is omitted.

school nlj clerk Total

SLS 56.3 23 79.3
CLS 70.5 8.6 79.1
Penn 67.7 10.9 78.6
Chi 68.6 10 78.6
HLS 57.5 18.1 75.6
Cornell62 10.9 72.9
NYU 65.4 7.3 72.7
Duke 61.8 10.9 72.7
UCB 62.6 8.1 70.7
NU 62.9 6.8 69.7
UVA 57.2 12.4 69.6
Umich 55 13.9 68.9
GULC 49 5.6 54.6
Vandy44.6 7.9 52.5
Fordham43.75.9 49.6
BC 45.8 3.4 49.2
GW 43.5 4.9 48.4
UCLA 42.4 6 48.4
BU 41.2 1 42.2

Holy Shit UVA and Mich suck!>!!>!

[awesomepossum]

It's nice to see that this thread is as unpleasant as before. It's like a tradition.


hth. 0L. wtf lol fwiw mrkb.

[RVP11]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

In a fluctuating economy it makes no sense to combined outdated data with actual data. hth

Ending snarky comments with "hth" does not add any force to your points. 0L.

To be fair, neither does ending it with 0L.

hth

Bad irony radar?

[Fancy Pants]

You are completely wrong. A more useful data set might be '09 NLJ plus a 3 year average of clerkship data. You could also throw in a 3 year average of academia and make assumptions on prestigous PI too.

The point is that in the real world people do analysis with incomplete numbers numbers and assumptions instead of saying "eff it, I'm not looking at this until I have actuals." hth

The fact that "the real world" (whatever that is) uses incomplete data to make predictions really doesn't change how you should feel about using wrong data to make predictions.

Also, you mention "assumptions" but fail to realize that the whole point of what we're saying is that the assumption is that the 2009 data is going to be very different from 2008.

[kittenmittons]

Ending snarky comments with "hth" does not add any force to your points. 0L.

To be fair, neither does ending it with 0L.

hth

Bad irony radar?

Is that like in that Alanis song?

[miamiman]

This is a neat graph:



It's also useless. And if you posted a thread about it, I would post about how it's a useless graph that doesn't tell you anything worthwhile. And if you tried to say it was better than having no graph at all, I would say that's stupid.

i literally spat the coffee out of my mouth in laughter upon seeing this.

[RVP11]

I think we should return to TTT-LS's point.

What matters is how YOU do. No one who gets the job they want from a T4 should feel bad about their school. No one who pulls an utter fail at a T6 is going to be reassured by the fact that 60% or more of their classmates are able to pay off their loans.

[09042014]

You are completely wrong. A more useful data set might be '09 NLJ plus a 3 year average of clerkship data. You could also throw in a 3 year average of academia and make assumptions on prestigous PI too.

The point is that in the real world people do analysis with incomplete numbers numbers and assumptions instead of saying "eff it, I'm not looking at this until I have actuals." hth

The fact that "the real world" (whatever that is) uses incomplete data to make predictions really doesn't change how you should feel about using wrong data to make predictions.

Also, you mention "assumptions" but fail to realize that the whole point of what we're saying is that the assumption is that the 2009 data is going to be very different from 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_m ... it_ratings

[Stringer Bell]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

I just don't see the benefit

Pretend you are going to UVa and feel inferior about your school (for some unknown reason, wtf is it always UVa students?!?).

Now do you see it?

If we look at NLJ 250 by itself for '09, UVA is 5th. My self esteem from looking at that list by itself instead isn't going to take a big hit. The reason this list still holds value is because it takes some account of clerkship data for Yale and Stanford.

If you want to look at the NLJ list by itself and claim NU is #1, knock yourself out.

[Kronk]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

In a fluctuating economy it makes no sense to combined outdated data with actual data. hth

Ending snarky comments with "hth" does not add any force to your points. 0L.

I'm rejecting your school even with the 90k they gave me. hth

[kittenmittons]

As long as someone isn't hiding their methodology or outright fabricating, I don't get why anyone complains about the resulting ranks. The flaws of incomplete data are apparent; we're law students and future law students. But no one's stopping you from compiling your own statistics if you think those others present are inaccurate or misleading in any way.

I just don't see the benefit

Pretend you are going to UVa and feel inferior about your school (for some unknown reason, wtf is it always UVa students?!?).

Now do you see it?

If we look at NLJ 250 by itself for '09, UVA is 5th. My self esteem from looking at that list by itself instead isn't going to take a big hit. The reason this list still holds value is because it takes some account of clerkship data for Yale and Stanford.

If you want to look at the NLJ list by itself and claim NU is #1, knock yourself out.

Using any of this data as a proxy for actual rankings is prolish.

[Stringer Bell]

Using any of this data as a proxy for actual rankings is prolish.

That is fair. I'm not at all saying we look at these lists and say VM pwned Chicago in '09, I'm merely saying we can look at these data sets and say we have SOME evidence that VM may have outplaced Chicago in these 2 categories in '09.