Vale of Tears is the Most Horrifying Thread on TLS Forum

[rpupkin]

It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.

The observation that follows is based on anecdotes (like pretty much everything else ITT), but I've noticed that the gunning is far worse outside the T14. A T14 student at median still has a decent chance at a job that can pay off loans. For a T1 student to have that same chance, he or she generally needs to be top 10% or better. I think that students, overall, study harder outside the T14.

[84651846190]

It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.

The observation that follows is based on anecdotes (like pretty much everything else ITT), but I've noticed that the gunning is far worse outside the T14. A T14 student at median still has a decent chance at a job that can pay off loans. For a T1 student to have that same chance, he or she generally needs to be top 10% or better. I think that students, overall, study harder outside the T14.

At the mid- to low-T14s, I think there is a subset of students, maybe 25-50%, who study just as hard as students at any other law school. This subset makes it difficult to crack the top 10% by out-studying everyone else. Thus, I think it is just as difficult to crack the top 10% at a non-HYS T14 as it is at any other law school, but I think it may be easier to get/maintain median grades.

[Moneytrees]

It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.

Ok since you apparently can't read your own posts:

I will say that there seems to be a current of thought on TLS that goes something like this: "at every T1, every student is gunning for top 10% and studying incessantly"

Nobody says these things. If you don't want people to call you out on your bullshit reductionism, don't do it in the first place.

It's at least implied numerous times throughout this thread.

[ymmv]

It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.

Ok since you apparently can't read your own posts:

I will say that there seems to be a current of thought on TLS that goes something like this: "at every T1, every student is gunning for top 10% and studying incessantly"

Nobody says these things. If you don't want people to call you out on your bullshit reductionism, don't do it in the first place.

It's at least implied numerous times throughout this thread.

You people keep saying shit like this but I don't see the evidence. And if anyone anywhere is implying this it's obviously patently stupid and not worth engaging.

[Moneytrees]

It's not my strawman. I'm not saying only 40% of trying, like the guy above me. I have no idea what percentage it is. But a lot of people on these boards assume it's the vast majority, and I'm not so sure about that. Maybe at the T14, probably not at the rest of the T1.

Ok since you apparently can't read your own posts:

I will say that there seems to be a current of thought on TLS that goes something like this: "at every T1, every student is gunning for top 10% and studying incessantly"

Nobody says these things. If you don't want people to call you out on your bullshit reductionism, don't do it in the first place.

People actually do say this. It's very strongly implied throughout this thread as well.

[cal2013]

0L here, so take my anecdote with a pillar of salt.

My undergrad program was run by a T14 law school (all the professors taught at the law school, same administration, and same grading curve). If law school exam grading is anything like my program's was, then random is a great word to describe it. You could put an exam that got an "A" right next to one that got a "B-" and not be able to identify which got which grade. It's almost like they just pulled grades from a hat.

[JCougar]

Anecdotally, I'd say around 40% of people legitimately try as hard as 0Ls imagine they are going to try.

This wasn't accurate at my school. It was much higher than this. People didn't gun in class, but I feel like this number was closer to 80% when you factored in who was doing around 4 hours of studying per night, who was prepared for class, who was doing study groups, etc.

Of course, my school was a known trap school, and everyone kind of knew that they had to really hustle to be eligible for Biglaw.

[twenty]

0Ls reading this thread need to understand before anything else that "hard work", whether at a T1 or at Harvard, is not predictive of your overall grades. The whole idea of "studying hard" is ridiculously illusory, and a great way to justify a burnout halfway through your first semester.

[romothesavior]

Why is this thread still going

[rpupkin]

Why is this thread still going

It's because the thread itself is vying to become the "most horrifying thread on TLS." Very meta.

[gotsnork2]

I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.

[84651846190]

Why is this thread still going

[2014]

Why is this thread still going

I wondered this 3 weeks ago I'm stunned it's still a thing. Unfortunately it's like click bait because the title seems interesting and has nothing to do with the content STILL.

[bjsesq]

Why is this thread still going

Because you didn't lock it, ya pussy.

[Pragmatic Gun]

I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.

Which part of the thread provoked this reaction?

[JCougar]

I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.

Sounds like she's making a very wise decision.

[Pragmatic Gun]

I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.

Sounds like she's making a very wise decision.

[gotsnork2]

I skimmed through this thread while bored at work today, and I showed it my office mate who responded: "Wow, that's either the dumbest, most trite thing I've ever read or it's perfectly indicative of why no one likes lawyers." She's not applying to law school, FYI.

Which part of the thread provoked this reaction?

Nothing in particular--kind of the whole thing together.

[prezidentv8]

Why is this thread still going

we have nothing better to do bro

[Pragmatic Gun]

This thread has become the awkward exchange of stares one sees on "The Office".

[Pragmatic Gun]

Btw, this subforum is 60% "don't go to law school". Have we jumped the shark?

[JCougar]

Btw, this subforum is 60% "don't go to law school". Have we jumped the shark?

Nah, the legal field is a pretty miserable one full of stress, poverty, and unfulfilled dreams. Even the good jobs are a lot of rote busywork and there's so many people that desperately want them that you can be fired and replaced on a whim. And even if you're not fired, some partners that happen to be tyrannical assholes know this and figure "who cares if this person quits, we'll just get another." So they may not fire you, but they'll act like a mini-Caligula in the office until you get sick of it and quit.

Way, way too many people competing for a very finite set of jobs.

100 law schools need to be forced to close before things get any better. So far, there's only Hamline and one of Cooley's many campuses. There's a lot more work to be done!

[gotsnork2]

This thread has become the awkward exchange of stares one sees on "The Office".

Haha! Nice imagery.

[cal2013]

Btw, this subforum is 60% "don't go to law school". Have we jumped the shark?

Words

100 law schools need to be forced to close before things get any better. So far, there's only Hamline and one of Cooley's many campuses. There's a lot more work to be done!

Pipe dream

[JCougar]

Btw, this subforum is 60% "don't go to law school". Have we jumped the shark?

Words

100 law schools need to be forced to close before things get any better. So far, there's only Hamline and one of Cooley's many campuses. There's a lot more work to be done!

Pipe dream

I don't think we'll see anything close to 100, but we are approaching the breaking point where a lot of schools have been running in the red for 2-3 years and there's no sign of a quick turnaround in applicants. Another 2-3 years of this, and I can see about 30-40 of them closing...including a lot of the for-profit ones (thank god).