Cornell (Half) vs. StJohn's (Full) Forum

[cavalier1138]

Of course bubbles are fun because they shield you to the reality of the world outside...

I suspect that the irony of this statement is lost on you...

[silverdoe91]

Of course bubbles are fun because they shield you to the reality of the world outside...

I suspect that the irony of this statement is lost on you...

Are you insisting that I am living and operating within a bubble? If that is so, in my defense, I've done all that I could to get myself outside of whatever bubble I may be in by working in corporate, public as well as private law firm settings, and trying to converse with as many people as possible to get their takes on it.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Cornell isn't any more a bubble than any other law school, and their employment statistics make clear that people do just fine with the amount of experience Ithaca provides. For one thing, people outside of cities have legal issues, too. There's a lot of poverty in upstate New York, it's just not urban poverty.

(You also don't see the reality of NYC law firms until you actually work for one full time, but that's a different issue.)

[Dcc617]

Please retake and reapply.

[AntsInMyEyesJohnson]

Please retake and reapply.

+1 just outta respect for your persistence with this.

[pterodactyls]

Are you still deciding or have you deposited by now?

Man this has to be one of the most lopsided polls I've ever seen. If OP doesn't go to Cornell he/she is gonna be TLS famous.

[somethingElse]

I find it hard to believe that these deposit deadlines haven't passed yet...

[pterodactyls]

I find it hard to believe that these deposit deadlines haven't passed yet...

If OP turns out to be a troll I'm honestly going to congratulate him/her on a job well done.

[bretby]

From my (admittedly limited) experience, if you are committed to doing PI in NYC, then staying in NYC for school will be a significant boost. Most PI organizations care much more about commitment to the cause than they do about school rank, and if you are in the city you will have a lot of opportunities to do internships, externships, networking, etc. outside of the two summer gigs you would get from Cornell. And a lot of people who start school committed to PI go to firms when they realize the amount of debt they have taken on is unsustainable on a PD (or equivalent) salary. Having very little debt really frees you up to do the kind of work you want to do, and that is priceless.
There will be trade-offs for choosing a lower-ranked school, but so long as you are aware of what those are and use your time in school to position yourself for the kind of PI job you want coming out, I don't think it is an indefensible decision.

[robertwabisabi]

In the early stages of this application cycle I attended a webinar. The purpose of the webinar was purportedly to help those in attendance choose the best law school, based on individual goals.

Several (associate) deans of admission served as panelists, including the dean of admissions for Cornell. She shared a story about an applicant that had recently visited campus. This applicant brought up the "Ithaca legal market" and asked the dean to compare it to the nyc legal market. The applicant also wanted to know if the lack of competition in Ithaca artificially raised the employment data for Cornell, especially when compared with NYC law schools.

I wonder if OP is the same applicant...

[eph]

I've learned two things from this thread. Dean Geiger of Cornell retired. I didn't go there but he was wonderfully insightful as I made my choice. Great guy. And that the OP is a/an...

[pancakes3]

is OP's Cardozo scholly full ride? Stips? I fade in and out of blackout whenever I read this thread.

[awkwardporcupine]

Also, another qualm I have is that the incoming students there have a GPA/LSAT range that is way below mine, so Idk if I'll be learning with peers, but I figure either that means I'll stand out, or if they are smarter than their numbers make them look then I will have intellectual peers.

You've proven about 15x that you have the reasoning skills of an overripe banana, so I'm not sure why you're so concerned about students at lower ranked schools being beneath you.

[silverdoe91]

is OP's Cardozo scholly full ride? Stips? I fade in and out of blackout whenever I read this thread.

It's a full ride with no stipulations for all three years.

[silverdoe91]

In the early stages of this application cycle I attended a webinar. The purpose of the webinar was purportedly to help those in attendance choose the best law school, based on individual goals.

Several (associate) deans of admission served as panelists, including the dean of admissions for Cornell. She shared a story about an applicant that had recently visited campus. This applicant brought up the "Ithaca legal market" and asked the dean to compare it to the nyc legal market. The applicant also wanted to know if the lack of competition in Ithaca artificially raised the employment data for Cornell, especially when compared with NYC law schools.

I wonder if OP is the same applicant...

Lol, no that's not me, but that's a good point. What was the answer?

[silverdoe91]

From my (admittedly limited) experience, if you are committed to doing PI in NYC, then staying in NYC for school will be a significant boost. Most PI organizations care much more about commitment to the cause than they do about school rank, and if you are in the city you will have a lot of opportunities to do internships, externships, networking, etc. outside of the two summer gigs you would get from Cornell. And a lot of people who start school committed to PI go to firms when they realize the amount of debt they have taken on is unsustainable on a PD (or equivalent) salary. Having very little debt really frees you up to do the kind of work you want to do, and that is priceless.
There will be trade-offs for choosing a lower-ranked school, but so long as you are aware of what those are and use your time in school to position yourself for the kind of PI job you want coming out, I don't think it is an indefensible decision.

This is exactly why I was considering a debt free law school education in the city as opposed to Cornell. However, if I don't know exactly what kind of public interest law I want to focus on, will that prevent me from gaining the amount of experience I'll need in order to get a job from a lower tiered school? Many law school grads I know who got jobs in Public Interest (especially from lower-tiered schools) tended to focus their internships entirely on one area of public interest law (such as housing or immigration or employment) and ended up with a job in exactly that area of law. If I don't know right now exactly which type of law I want to go into, and instead do many internships in a variety of different public interest or related areas of law, would that put me at a disadvantage when trying to get a job, especially coming from a lower-tiered school?

[robertwabisabi]

Lol, no that's not me, but that's a good point. What was the answer?

I think she informed the person that there is no "Ithaca law" then directed the applicant to the most recent ABA data:
http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... t-Data.pdf

[Dcc617]

Please retake and reapply.

[silverdoe91]

I decided to go for Cardozo because of the unconditional full scholarship they gave me and they have many programs/clinics I like.

I would've taken a year off to reapply to NYU but I was working all summer so I didn't have enough time to study for the LSAT and I'm not prepared to take it in September. If I wait to take it in December, I would miss the application deadline for their scholarships, and I don't want to pay sticker for all 3 years.

I noticed that my classmates at Cardozo are very bright (some coming from NYU, Barnard, even Harvard) so it would be difficult to be in the top percent of my class as many of you have indicated. So transferring might be difficult if it's even possible at all. Also, I learned during orientation that apparently they have a new policy where you're not allowed to be on both the moot court team and a journal. I wanted to have the opportunity to be on both, but it seems that's not an option anymore. I've been considering dropping out, but if I do that will it stay on my record and ruin my chances at admission at other law schools?

For the record, I'd rather not drop out because I like my classes and not taking out loans. Plus I figure a 67% employment rate for full time legal jobs is not so bad. But now that I see how competitive my classmates are I'm a bit worried about my job prospects, since many of you have indicated that it is important to be in the top percentage of your class for some jobs if you are coming from a Tier 2 school.

[Nachoo2019]

Fucking LOL. Can't say we didn't Warn you.

[cavalier1138]

I decided to go for Cardozo because of the unconditional full scholarship they gave me and they have many programs/clinics I like.

I would've taken a year off to reapply to NYU but I was working all summer so I didn't have enough time to study for the LSAT and I'm not prepared to take it in September. If I wait to take it in December, I would miss the application deadline for their scholarships, and I don't want to pay sticker for all 3 years.

I noticed that my classmates at Cardozo are very bright (some coming from NYU, Barnard, even Harvard) so it would be difficult to be in the top percent of my class as many of you have indicated. So transferring might be difficult if it's even possible at all. Also, I learned during orientation that apparently they have a new policy where you're not allowed to be on both the moot court team and a journal. I wanted to have the opportunity to be on both, but it seems that's not an option anymore. I've been considering dropping out, but if I do that will it stay on my record and ruin my chances at admission at other law schools?

For the record, I'd rather not drop out because I like my classes and not taking out loans. Plus I figure a 67% employment rate for full time legal jobs is not so bad. But now that I see how competitive my classmates are I'm a bit worried about my job prospects, since many of you have indicated that it is important to be in the top percentage of your class for some jobs if you are coming from a Tier 2 school.

Quoted for posterity.

OP, I have no idea of your age, race, gender, etc., but in my mind's eye, you are Gob Bluth after making a terrible mistake. Just magnificent.

To at least try to help (although you've already shown that you don't really do the whole "advice" thing), dropping out of a law school before you have any posted grades will not be a significant problem down the line. It may raise some eyebrows, and you probably won't get into Cardozo again (then again, beggars can't be choosers). But it won't be as bad as you're thinking.

[Mikey]

OP, I know several people who go/went to Cardozo and they like the school itself, but can't get a damn job. One of them was someone who graduated in 2014 that I know was median, and couldn't find a damn thing, even with bar passing. Wanna know what she told me when I asked her if she'd recommend dozo? "Definitely take the time to do well on the LSAT. Cardozo is a good school, but it's hard to find a job when you're competing with a whole bunch of other grads from better schools".

Keep in mind that I met her at an unpaid bullshit internship for college students and first year law students AFTER she was a year out of dozo. Also met 4 other dozo students last year at the same place but they were only 1Ls. Now this was only her case, but I would assume others at median struggled/are struggling as well.

Should've gone to Cornell, lol, good luck OP!

[mathis1490]

I had an uncle that turned down a lower T14 Ivy for a full scholarship at a small school in NYC. He often speaks of how he regrets not attending the Ivy. When I say often, I mean he tells me that each time we speak.

For what it's worth, he went into PI.

My uncle heads a support group in Queens on Tuesday nights. BYOB.

[silverdoe91]

OP, I know several people who go/went to Cardozo and they like the school itself, but can't get a damn job. One of them was someone who graduated in 2014 that I know was median, and couldn't find a damn thing, even with bar passing. Wanna know what she told me when I asked her if she'd recommend dozo? "Definitely take the time to do well on the LSAT. Cardozo is a good school, but it's hard to find a job when you're competing with a whole bunch of other grads from better schools".

Keep in mind that I met her at an unpaid bullshit internship for college students and first year law students AFTER she was a year out of dozo. Also met 4 other dozo students last year at the same place but they were only 1Ls. Now this was only her case, but I would assume others at median struggled/are struggling as well.

Should've gone to Cornell, lol, good luck OP!

I keep hearing this narrative that Cardozo students cannot find jobs, yet according to the statistics 67% are employed with full time legal jobs, with another 17% who have jobs in other professions. So the statistics seem to contradict this notion. Unless you assume that their stats are made up, in which case, what basis do we have to believe that any of the school's stats are not made up or skewed to show their school in a positive light?

[Dcc617]

OP, I know several people who go/went to Cardozo and they like the school itself, but can't get a damn job. One of them was someone who graduated in 2014 that I know was median, and couldn't find a damn thing, even with bar passing. Wanna know what she told me when I asked her if she'd recommend dozo? "Definitely take the time to do well on the LSAT. Cardozo is a good school, but it's hard to find a job when you're competing with a whole bunch of other grads from better schools".

Keep in mind that I met her at an unpaid bullshit internship for college students and first year law students AFTER she was a year out of dozo. Also met 4 other dozo students last year at the same place but they were only 1Ls. Now this was only her case, but I would assume others at median struggled/are struggling as well.

Should've gone to Cornell, lol, good luck OP!

I keep hearing this narrative that Cardozo students cannot find jobs, yet according to the statistics 67% are employed with full time legal jobs, with another 17% who have jobs in other professions. So the statistics seem to contradict this notion. Unless you assume that their stats are made up, in which case, what basis do we have to believe that any of the school's stats are not made up or skewed to show their school in a positive light?

So what's your objective with this debate? Earlier you asked for advice and then ignored it completely. Now you've made your decision and are in school. Why bother resurrecting this thread?