All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school? Forum

[gwuorbust]

And what I'm saying is the whole point of that source is that "A high deviation from the mean will likely result in a lower result next time", but with lower scores (even if they aren't quite below the average - I feel the average is artificially lower due to all the test takers going into it blindly) there's not the same statistical chance of a lower or equivalent score. Of course what romo said is 100% correct as well, but the Dean argument presented is made entirely on statistical grounds, so those are the premises I'm sticking to.

this is not just a feeling, TITCR. if you parsed them out, median would prob be like 159 or something. and that is with Kaplan level training. dedication to LSAT for a solid set of time can let you improve your score.

(I'm not really one to talk through, considering that I got the exact same score twice...)

[Grizz]

I retook a 167 and got a 168. That 168 probably netted me tens on thousands in scholarship money at my current school. Eminently worth it.

[Hey-O]

When's the last time people blasted a 168 to retake?
Regression works both ways, if someone scores very low and retakes, odds are they'll score higher the next time.

168 is the example in the interview. I was citing a source.

Here's another source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_to_the_mean and a statistic: the average LSAT is 151.

Plain and simple, I've never met a real person who did significantly better on their LSAT by retaking it, and I've met a lot who've retaken.

+1[/quote]

I retook and had a four point jump. 169 to 173. But I knew that 169 was not representative of my PTs or my ability. I was stressed and dealing with a personal illness and a close family member with a cancer. So I buckled down and re-took. I'm still not overjoyed at the final result, but it's much more representative. My average score was a 173-177. So the 169 was a huge disappointment. I knew when I retook it was a gamble, but I weighed my own abilities and decided to go for it. I think it's depends on the person.

I think it depends on why you got the 168 or whatever.

[romothesavior]

Here's another source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_to_the_mean and a statistic: the average LSAT is 151.

Plain and simple, I've never met a real person who did significantly better on their LSAT by retaking it, and I've met a lot who've retaken.

The fact that 151 the average proves nothing. There are so many law schools out there that many will take almost anyone. And tens of thousands of people take the LSAT every year, and the vast majority are not fit to go to law school and did zero studying.

Also, there are countless people (all real people) on here who did significantly better. I improved 6 points on a retake, and I didn't take it cold the first time.

[romothesavior]

I retook a 167 and got a 168. That 168 probably netted me tens on thousands in scholarship money at my current school. Eminently worth it.

Not just worth it. Eminently worth it.

[kalvano]

This thread is great. I fear my school will teeter over the precipice this time around.

[rman1201]

I retook a 167 and got a 168. That 168 probably netted me tens on thousands in scholarship money at my current school. Eminently worth it.

Not just worth it. Eminently worth it.

I lol'd

[Hey-O]

I retook a 167 and got a 168. That 168 probably netted me tens on thousands in scholarship money at my current school. Eminently worth it.

Not just worth it. Eminently worth it.

I never use the word eminently. Too much danger of confusing it with immanently. Never use a big word if there is the possibility of using it wrong.

[lisjjen]

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[Nogameisfair]

Its almost like people are intent on disproving the prisoner's dilemma.

Sure vicious competition might make sense in a one time game, but repeat play makes cooperation make sense in most instances.

Iterated prisoner's dilemma - sure you get rogue players, but with tit-for-tat reprisals they suffer.

I'm not sure how game theory would deal with this but it doesn't perfectly fit the model of an iterated game, the rounds are not of equal value, the first round is by far the most important.

Of course no model fits any reality perfectly... that's why it's a model. You wrongly assume that a "round" is the entire first year of school. We could just as easily look at a round as the first week, or the first set of exams, or the entire law school experience for that matter. Further, I realize that most first year students think that first year is the most important, but ask someone who is trying to make partner, or get into a USAO what "round" is most important? Intelligent forward looking law students realize how important it is to make friends in this industry, and that's why law school isn't quite as hellish as it could be.

[dstars823]

if u look at the LSAC release about people who retake u see once u hit 165+ the average for a retake is like +0.5 and if ur 170+ then the average retake is -0.9, though obviously if u think you can get a better score then go for it.

I went from a 162 to a 170 on my retake (december then february). I had the flu the first time I took it and thought stupidly i could make it through

[Zazelmaf]

I am going to a T4 school. Why? Because I liked Liar Liar a lot, and thought law would be intellectually stimulating.

[Jacobgoblin]

I am going to law school because i want to be a lawyer.
The mistake many students make is that they focus on law school instead of on careers in law. Law school can be a fun, intellectually challenging endeavor. It can also help you to please your parents and to postpone your career decision making for a few more years. But ultimately, law school is just that—three years of schooling that prepares you for a career in the law. You are not even a lawyer when you graduate! You won't know enough to be one. You'll need to take and pass the state bar exam before you can call yourself a lawyer, and you'll need to gain experience before you'll be comfortable with that label.

http://www.spam.com

[HeavenWood]

If ever a thread needed necromancing...

[Grizz]

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[Stanford4Me]

I am going to law school because i want to be a lawyer.
The mistake many students make is that they focus on law school instead of on careers in law. Law school can be a fun, intellectually challenging endeavor. It can also help you to please your parents and to postpone your career decision making for a few more years. But ultimately, law school is just that—three years of schooling that prepares you for a career in the law. You are not even a lawyer when you graduate! You won't know enough to be one. You'll need to take and pass the state bar exam before you can call yourself a lawyer, and you'll need to gain experience before you'll be comfortable with that label.

http://www.spam.com

Shut. Up.

[JazzOne]

I am going to law school because i want to be a lawyer.
The mistake many students make is that they focus on law school instead of on careers in law. Law school can be a fun, intellectually challenging endeavor. It can also help you to please your parents and to postpone your career decision making for a few more years. But ultimately, law school is just that—three years of schooling that prepares you for a career in the law. You are not even a lawyer when you graduate! You won't know enough to be one. You'll need to take and pass the state bar exam before you can call yourself a lawyer, and you'll need to gain experience before you'll be comfortable with that label.

http://www.spam.com

Shut. Up.

+1

[ResolutePear]

The lulz in this thread.
They delivered to me.

[dex8425]

People who are going to a non tier one school.....that's me. Is this a logical plan?
I'm from the Minneapolis area, and my Dad is a U of Mn law graduate who practices there. He owns his own building and employs 8 other lawyers. My uncle graduated from The U of North Dakota school of law and is a partner at a large firm in Fargo. With my numbers (3.62/155) I am likely not getting into Minnesota, but will get into North Dakota and probably get a scholarship. Since sticker at North Dakota is only 18/yr for Mn residents anyway, a scholarship would mean I would graduate with little debt, considering I could live with my uncle in Fargo for basically nothing.
If I graduate from the U of North Dakota law school, I would be perfectly content with practicing in Fargo, Grand Forks, etc. but I could also work for my dad in the Twin Cities. No reason for me to pay sticker at a tier one school (Minnesota, Wisconsin) even if I could get in, which I probably won't, when I could go to North Dakota and get a similar job (working for my dad or with my Uncle)
I'm also applying to other t2 and t3 schools to see if I could graduate with less debt than if I went to North Dakota.

[cinephile]

People who are going to a non tier one school.....that's me. Is this a logical plan?

For someone with your geographical and legal connections, it sounds like a great plan. But it's surprising how some people with no connection to North Dakota or other similar schools will move across the country to attend. Many of those who do this also do not have connections in the legal field.

[romothesavior]

Sweet necro. But yeah it sounds like a fine plan in your case.