The fundamental problem with practicing lawyers Forum

[californiauser]

The #1 complaint I hear from my peers is about their inability to successfully date. I don't care if your dad and all 20 of your cousins are in biglaw. It's not compatible with a bustling social life.

bustling social life = having friends?

[IAFG]

The #1 complaint I hear from my peers is about their inability to successfully date. I don't care if your dad and all 20 of your cousins are in biglaw. It's not compatible with a bustling social life.

bustling social life = having friends?

If having friends = having Internet friends, everyone is fine. If having friends = keeping plans to actually spend time together, I have had the same dinner rescheduled over and over for 2 months running.

[KatyMarie]

didnt realize being a 0l precluded me from knowing people and having family members who work/have worked in big law

The attorneys at my firm at least pretend to have some personal relationships outside of work that they care about and actively cultivate...but they could all just be really good actors and they're actually dying inside.

[kalvano]

Welp.

[*]Big Law + debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + No Money + No Friends
[*]Big Law no debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + Some Money + No Friends
[*]Small Law = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + No Money + [Unclear on Friends/Job Insecurity situation here]
[*]Nothing in the middle exists.

Do any practicing lawyers have anything good to say about their jobs? I promise I won't run out go enroll in St. John's for sticker price if you give me an example of something you find enjoyable/rewarding about your career that you haven't found elsewhere.

I like smaller firm life. I've gotten a lot of work dumped on me right away, and it's a ton of client contact and negotiations. My new firm is also using what I got from my prior job to branch out some, and I'm the "the guy" for that work, which is super cool.

[jbagelboy]

The #1 complaint I hear from my peers is about their inability to successfully date. I don't care if your dad and all 20 of your cousins are in biglaw. It's not compatible with a bustling social life.

bustling social life = having friends?

If having friends = having Internet friends, everyone is fine. If having friends = keeping plans to actually spend time together, I have had the same dinner rescheduled over and over for 2 months running.

I already feel like I do this in law school with my college friends. Lol.

[rad lulz]

.

[KatyMarie]

Welp.

[*]Big Law + debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + No Money + No Friends
[*]Big Law no debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + Some Money + No Friends
[*]Small Law = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + No Money + [Unclear on Friends/Job Insecurity situation here]
[*]Nothing in the middle exists.

Do any practicing lawyers have anything good to say about their jobs? I promise I won't run out go enroll in St. John's for sticker price if you give me an example of something you find enjoyable/rewarding about your career that you haven't found elsewhere.

I like smaller firm life. I've gotten a lot of work dumped on me right away, and it's a ton of client contact and negotiations. My new firm is also using what I got from my prior job to branch out some, and I'm the "the guy" for that work, which is super cool.

Neat! I know everyone hates this phrase, but I don't know how else to ask, is the "work/life balance" better at your smaller firm job? (if you have biglaw to compare it to) Or do you basically find yourself working the same amount just on different sorts of assignments?

[ggocat]

Mods were generally a lot less tolerant of don't go to law school "fear mongering"

Back in the day TLS was much more about how to get in to school but as the userbase ages it's got a lot more intelligent employment stuff

And the general TLS advice was, "Go to the best school you get into," rather than, "Go to law school for free unless it's HY." JDU was more of "Don't go to law school unless it's HY," which, with age, is where TLS is approaching right now. The major difference between JDU posters and TLS is that JDU generally lost the law school game and TLS won it. Props to the TLS megaposters, who generally won the law school game, for bringing some reality to TLS.

[rad lulz]

Mods were generally a lot less tolerant of don't go to law school "fear mongering"

Back in the day TLS was much more about how to get in to school but as the userbase ages it's got a lot more intelligent employment stuff

And the general TLS advice was, "Go to the best school you get into," rather than, "Go to law school for free unless it's HY." JDU was more of "Don't go to law school unless it's HY," which, with age, is where TLS is approaching right now. The major difference between JDU posters and TLS is that JDU generally lost the law school game and TLS won it. Props to the TLS megaposters, who generally won the law school game, for bringing some reality to TLS.

I also agree w this

[Pneumonia]

Is HYS sticker still credited? Say for a splitter that doesn't have any T14 full rides or even big money anywhere really? Btw sticker at H is 315k now, at repayment, assuming COL and tuition increases etc.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Is HYS sticker still credited? Say for a splitter that doesn't have any T14 full rides or even big money anywhere really? Btw sticker at H is 315k now, at repayment, assuming COL and tuition increases etc.

Can't someone with this profile get big $ at Northwestern? It would be interesting to start a "People who have gone to HYS at sticker get in here" thread. Anecdotally someone I know who did H at sticker (and is big law now) told me he would have gone to the best school that would give him a full ride if he had it to do again.

[aboutmydaylight]

Is HYS sticker still credited? Say for a splitter that doesn't have any T14 full rides or even big money anywhere really? Btw sticker at H is 315k now, at repayment, assuming COL and tuition increases etc.

I've yet to see anyone advocate HYS sticker in the last 6 months or so. In fact, 90%+ of Choosing a Law School threads go with the lowest COA option.

[jk148706]

Is HYS sticker still credited? Say for a splitter that doesn't have any T14 full rides or even big money anywhere really? Btw sticker at H is 315k now, at repayment, assuming COL and tuition increases etc.

I've yet to see anyone advocate HYS sticker in the last 6 months or so. In fact, 90%+ of Choosing a Law School threads go with the lowest COA option.

I've definitely noticed a huge debt aversion trend on TLS. I'm thinking it's a good thing

[ggocat]

Given the lack of control over your work hours, isn't it likely that you'll just go home to masturbate the stress away and follow that up with netflix because your downtime is so unpredictable that it rarely coincides with your friends' free time?

Biglawyers don't have friends. HTH. There's this one thread in the secret forum for practicing lawyers in which everyone basically says, "I have no friends" and then they talk about how to get friends. Sad.

I'm just glad I have a family to come home to.

Uh, rules 1 and 2, bro.
edit: but yeah, that thread is so sad.

My personal life is sad no doubt

Ha. The only reason I don't post in that thread is because I've already come to the realization that it's virtually impossible to make friends outside of work. /sadfest

[rwhyAn]

Is HYS sticker still credited? Say for a splitter that doesn't have any T14 full rides or even big money anywhere really? Btw sticker at H is 315k now, at repayment, assuming COL and tuition increases etc.

Boy, I'm glad I'm too stupid to get into H. $315k is sickening. That's almost $450k on the 10-year repayment plan and $700k on the 25-year plan.

[IAFG]

Mods were generally a lot less tolerant of don't go to law school "fear mongering"

Back in the day TLS was much more about how to get in to school but as the userbase ages it's got a lot more intelligent employment stuff

And the general TLS advice was, "Go to the best school you get into," rather than, "Go to law school for free unless it's HY." JDU was more of "Don't go to law school unless it's HY," which, with age, is where TLS is approaching right now. The major difference between JDU posters and TLS is that JDU generally lost the law school game and TLS won it. Props to the TLS megaposters, who generally won the law school game, for bringing some reality to TLS.

I would attend the fuck out of NU all over again. It's not that I think LS is a bad idea. I just think attending LS is a bad idea given the end goal of biglaw. Biglaw is a short term gig, like clerking is. You better be in it for something on the other side.

[californiauser]

Is HYS sticker still credited? Say for a splitter that doesn't have any T14 full rides or even big money anywhere really? Btw sticker at H is 315k now, at repayment, assuming COL and tuition increases etc.

hell no

that's like 2k+ in interest a month

[Pneumonia]

What is even more sickening is that, assuming a 3L SA, aid at Harvard maxes at 90k over 3 years. So no way you're getting out of there for less than 200k if you're a poor, even if you live cheap. A few threads ago DF said HYS max are worth 150k which made me sad; its not that I think he's wrong, its just that as a poor it sucks to see that there is truth in that perspective.

[rad lulz]

Id much rather hit up Cornell or UVA or whatver the kids are calling "lower t14" these days (it's all the same shit) than take out sticker debt for H of all you want to do is do "business law" whatever that means to you

[aboutmydaylight]

What is even more sickening is that, assuming a 3L SA, aid at Harvard maxes at 90k over 3 years. So no way you're getting out of there for less than 200k if you're a poor, even if you live cheap. A few threads ago DF said HYS max are worth 150k which made me sad; its not that I think he's wrong, its just that as a poor it sucks to see that there is truth in that perspective.

Yea the more I run over the numbers, the more I realize that even financial aid only schools are still bad for median/low income families.

[ggocat]

I would attend the fuck out of NU all over again. It's not that I think LS is a bad idea. I just think attending LS is a bad idea given the end goal of biglaw. Biglaw is a short term gig, like clerking is. You better be in it for something on the other side.

<--- career clerk. Guess I'm a "love the law" nerd with the inability to deal with biglaw BS.

TBF, if I had gotten into T14 at sticker in 2006/2007, I probably would have gone. But now, going to law school with the short-term goal of biglaw is like saying, "Let me do what I can to have $0 debt in 8 years and a shot at a nice government ($70K) or in-house ($100K) gig." Law school at cost is a strange goal for most.

[kalvano]

Welp.

[*]Big Law + debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + No Money + No Friends
[*]Big Law no debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + Some Money + No Friends
[*]Small Law = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + No Money + [Unclear on Friends/Job Insecurity situation here]
[*]Nothing in the middle exists.

Do any practicing lawyers have anything good to say about their jobs? I promise I won't run out go enroll in St. John's for sticker price if you give me an example of something you find enjoyable/rewarding about your career that you haven't found elsewhere.

I like smaller firm life. I've gotten a lot of work dumped on me right away, and it's a ton of client contact and negotiations. My new firm is also using what I got from my prior job to branch out some, and I'm the "the guy" for that work, which is super cool.

Neat! I know everyone hates this phrase, but I don't know how else to ask, is the "work/life balance" better at your smaller firm job? (if you have biglaw to compare it to) Or do you basically find yourself working the same amount just on different sorts of assignments?

Definitely better. Difference in hours to bill is a big deal, and the partners are really good about making sure associates are comfortable with their workload and telling people to go home if they are working too much.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Welp.

[*]Big Law + debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + No Money + No Friends
[*]Big Law no debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + Some Money + No Friends
[*]Small Law = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + No Money + [Unclear on Friends/Job Insecurity situation here]
[*]Nothing in the middle exists.

Do any practicing lawyers have anything good to say about their jobs? I promise I won't run out go enroll in St. John's for sticker price if you give me an example of something you find enjoyable/rewarding about your career that you haven't found elsewhere.

Belatedly, and maybe inappropriately since this thread is almost all about biglaw, but I'm a government lawyer and I like my job a lot: reasonable hours, reasonable pay, reasonably interesting work. Probably the biggest difference, though, is that I run my own cases from start to finish [admittedly with lots and lots of help at this point], and the hierarchy is different. I'd say it's flatter - I have a supervisor, and then there's a division head above her, but obviously there aren't any partners (or aiming for partnership) and everyone in the office, unless they have a supervisory position, has the same title.

[baloneydanza]

Welp.

[*]Big Law + debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + No Money + No Friends
[*]Big Law no debt = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + Job Insecurity + Some Money + No Friends
[*]Small Law = Miserable Tedious Job + Long, stressful hours + No Money + [Unclear on Friends/Job Insecurity situation here]
[*]Nothing in the middle exists.

Do any practicing lawyers have anything good to say about their jobs? I promise I won't run out go enroll in St. John's for sticker price if you give me an example of something you find enjoyable/rewarding about your career that you haven't found elsewhere.

Belatedly, and maybe inappropriately since this thread is almost all about biglaw, but I'm a government lawyer and I like my job a lot: reasonable hours, reasonable pay, reasonably interesting work. Probably the biggest difference, though, is that I run my own cases from start to finish [admittedly with lots and lots of help at this point], and the hierarchy is different. I'd say it's flatter - I have a supervisor, and then there's a division head above her, but obviously there aren't any partners (or aiming for partnership) and everyone in the office, unless they have a supervisory position, has the same title.

Big law could probably benefit from a socialist structure. Make everyone a partner. Junior associates should probably go on strike (half-joking)

[spleenworship]

Is HYS sticker still credited? Say for a splitter that doesn't have any T14 full rides or even big money anywhere really? Btw sticker at H is 315k now, at repayment, assuming COL and tuition increases etc.

I've yet to see anyone advocate HYS sticker in the last 6 months or so. In fact, 90%+ of Choosing a Law School threads go with the lowest COA option.

I've definitely noticed a huge debt aversion trend on TLS. I'm thinking it's a good thing

Amen.

I wish I'd worked harder and gotten even less debt.