NLJ 250 Placement for C/O 2012 Forum

[banjo]

CLS/NYU clearly beat Penn in the tippy top firms, but it's not a blowout. In the V10 minus Davis Polk it's more like 75-90 grads versus 32. When you adjust for class size, not terrible.

[law2015]

CLS/NYU clearly beat Penn in the tippy top firms, but it's not a blowout. In the V10 minus Davis Polk it's more like 75-90 grads versus 32. When you adjust for class size, not terrible.

It is really cool that we have all this new information available. I am hoping that someone will make a list and compare how schools compare for V10, V10-V20 and such. By just glancing at the firms individually I thought NYU/CLS had a significant advantage at top firms over Penn.

[kaiser]

CLS/NYU clearly beat Penn in the tippy top firms, but it's not a blowout. In the V10 minus Davis Polk it's more like 75-90 grads versus 32. When you adjust for class size, not terrible.

It is really cool that we have all this new information available. I am hoping that someone will make a list and compare how schools compare for V10, V10-V20 and such. By just glancing at the firms individually I thought NYU/CLS had a significant advantage at top firms over Penn.

I figured that this was pretty common knowledge, that Penn may place a very large number into biglaw, but that the few schools above it such as NYU and CLS place more people into the "highest tier" of big firms.

[AllTheLawz]

Did Davis Polk really only hire 6 people that year? If not, I can see why this is incomplete data.

Yeah and it has Cooley with only 7. My guess is there just isn't any way to know exactly how many people the 60 firms who didn't respond to the survey hired, and for the 58 for whom they could find any data they decided incomplete was better than nothing. Would be nice if they'd have admitted that though. At least now with the firm by firm breakdown we can get a better idea for how rampant the underreporting issue is.

If somebody can collect a relative list of all the big firms that are completely under-represented here, we could probably build a pretty accurate picture. Or wait for the ABA data, I suppose.

Also fairly certain Arnold & Porter has more than the 5 listed in the data, Boies has more than 1, Brown Rudnick more than 2, the data doesn't even have an entry for King & Spalding, White & Case probably had more than 12 and who knows what else is off.

[Crowing]

Kirkland: NU 17, UChi 9

Is that typical?

[izy223]

CLS/NYU clearly beat Penn in the tippy top firms, but it's not a blowout. In the V10 minus Davis Polk it's more like 75-90 grads versus 32. When you adjust for class size, not terrible.

It is really cool that we have all this new information available. I am hoping that someone will make a list and compare how schools compare for V10, V10-V20 and such. By just glancing at the firms individually I thought NYU/CLS had a significant advantage at top firms over Penn.

add in paul weiss which i remember at their event saying they hired 20-25 (i forget exact number) NYU summers that year. lets say that on the low end they hired 10-15 that changes it from 75-90 to 85-110 it makes a big difference

[kaiser]

CLS/NYU clearly beat Penn in the tippy top firms, but it's not a blowout. In the V10 minus Davis Polk it's more like 75-90 grads versus 32. When you adjust for class size, not terrible.

It is really cool that we have all this new information available. I am hoping that someone will make a list and compare how schools compare for V10, V10-V20 and such. By just glancing at the firms individually I thought NYU/CLS had a significant advantage at top firms over Penn.

add in paul weiss which i remember at their event saying they hired 20-25 (i forget exact number) NYU summers that year. lets say that on the low end they hired 10-15 that changes it from 75-90 to 85-110 it makes a big difference

Yeah, no doubt lots of Paul Weiss kids at NYU. Among transfers alone, I know of 4 PW summers (class of 2013 though)

[chipchip]

I'll confirm that those numbers definitely are off for firms like W&C, Latham, and others for GULC, especially when you factor in clerks. (The only W&C hire there is a special case, as far as I'm aware.) Not to mention firms that aren't included anyway.

Just my .02 cents.

[skers]

Kirkland: NU 17, UChi 9

Is that typical?

Who the fuck knows really. Some people may have just preferred Jenner and Sidley. Chicago sent 16 summers to Kirkland last year, so if you have the grades and want to SHATTER THE MARKET you'll be fine.

[Samara]

Kirkland: NU 17, UChi 9

Is that typical?

Who the fuck knows really. Some people may have just preferred Jenner and Sidley. Chicago sent 16 summers to Kirkland last year, so if you have the grades and want to SHATTER THE MARKET you'll be fine.

I don't think there is usually such a disparity, but Kirkland traditionally hires a lot of NU people.

[JamesDean1955]

I stand by my earlier posts:

% of students obtaining biglaw at a certain school is roughly your % chance at said school. Placement stats /=/ placement ability, but if anything they underestimate placement ability, not overestimate.

The whole "T6" and "CCN > MCPB" thing is completely overrated and an arbitrary TLS invention. CCN may place more into the very prestigious firms, but that's it. Honestly I'm far more concerned with obtaining a NYC market paying job that I am "V10 or bust." If you're that much of a prestige whore...I don't even ...

Also I don't think MVP are complete "peers." But anyways, I know TLS doesn't agree with any of this. Carry on.

[Robespierre]

Another underrepresented firm is Sidley. The NLJ data has them at 38 new associates. Really it's close to 100 for all US offices.

[Sheffield]

When you land a (SA) firm that pays BL $$, does their rank matter? Is it significant that they have +300 attorneys or 50? In case it does matter, please expound. Thx.

[Aberzombie1892]

When you land a (SA) firm that pays BL $$, does their rank matter? Is it significant that they have +300 attorneys or 50? In case it does matter, please expound. Thx.

Rank? Are you serious? So, you're asking if the size of the firm matters? No. Assuming you receive more than one SA offer, what matters is the following in order: offer rate for SA's, yearly retention rate for hired associates, billable hour requirements for hired associates, benefits for hired associates (including bar stipends), associate/partner ratio, anything else of value to you (i.e. whether pro bono hours are counted as billable hours).

[keg411]

When you land a (SA) firm that pays BL $$, does their rank matter? Is it significant that they have +300 attorneys or 50? In case it does matter, please expound. Thx.

The V100 is basically "how preftigious is your NYC corporate work". What matters most is Chambers if you have a practice area preference.

Also, came here to LOL at Michigan.

[Elston Gunn]

Just curious since I figured you all would know, what are most Yale graduates doing? Are they going into private practice or something? I noticed they only place 30% into biglaw so assuming they found something better to do.

clerkships.

That, and people who want PI jobs can actually get them. (They're definitely not doing academia right out of school.)

[law2015]

When you land a (SA) firm that pays BL $$, does their rank matter? Is it significant that they have +300 attorneys or 50? In case it does matter, please expound. Thx.

Yes it matters. The higher ranked firms are likely to provide better exit options.

[guano]

When you land a (SA) firm that pays BL $$, does their rank matter? Is it significant that they have +300 attorneys or 50? In case it does matter, please expound. Thx.

Yes it matters. The higher ranked firms are likely to provide better exit options.

Although if you have a particular practice area in mind, Chambers is more authorative

[JamesDean1955]

When you land a (SA) firm that pays BL $$, does their rank matter? Is it significant that they have +300 attorneys or 50? In case it does matter, please expound. Thx.

Rank? Are you serious? So, you're asking if the size of the firm matters? No. Assuming you receive more than one SA offer, what matters is the following in order: offer rate for SA's, yearly retention rate for hired associates, billable hour requirements for hired associates, benefits for hired associates (including bar stipends), associate/partner ratio, anything else of value to you (i.e. whether pro bono hours are counted as billable hours).

+1. As long as we're talking about roughly V100 firms. Within the V100 I wouldn't think your exit options would be drastically different (maybe for the top 10 firms they might be slightly better). If anyone believes otherwise, I would love to see some actual evidence.

[Rahviveh]

It would be cool if there was a regional breakdown by location

[law2015]

When you land a (SA) firm that pays BL $$, does their rank matter? Is it significant that they have +300 attorneys or 50? In case it does matter, please expound. Thx.

Rank? Are you serious? So, you're asking if the size of the firm matters? No. Assuming you receive more than one SA offer, what matters is the following in order: offer rate for SA's, yearly retention rate for hired associates, billable hour requirements for hired associates, benefits for hired associates (including bar stipends), associate/partner ratio, anything else of value to you (i.e. whether pro bono hours are counted as billable hours).

+1. As long as we're talking about roughly V100 firms. Within the V100 I wouldn't think your exit options would be drastically different (maybe for the top 10 firms they might be slightly better). If anyone believes otherwise, I would love to see some actual evidence.

Options from a V10 are more likely than not significantly better than those coming from lower ranked firms. What evidence do you think someone can show you?

[dixiecupdrinking]

When you look at the breakdown by firm, it's actually sort of amazing how inaccurate this NLJ data is considering this has been the go-to "reliable" source for job placement power.

[zman]

When you look at the breakdown by firm, it's actually sort of amazing how inaccurate this NLJ data is considering this has been the go-to "reliable" source for job placement power.

well the data that schools report is similar and other organizations too.

[star fox]

Kirkland: NU 17, UChi 9

Is that typical?

Pretty sure Kirkland just made a big donation to Northwestern. So they probably like that school a lot (and its students with that previous work experience).

[star fox]

I stand by my earlier posts:

% of students obtaining biglaw at a certain school is roughly your % chance at said school. Placement stats /=/ placement ability, but if anything they underestimate placement ability, not overestimate.

The whole "T6" and "CCN > MCPB" thing is completely overrated and an arbitrary TLS invention. CCN may place more into the very prestigious firms, but that's it. Honestly I'm far more concerned with obtaining a NYC market paying job that I am "V10 or bust." If you're that much of a prestige whore...I don't even ...

Also I don't think MVP are complete "peers." But anyways, I know TLS doesn't agree with any of this. Carry on.

The legal world in a nutshell. With how competitive it is out there, everyone's a prestige whore.