Top15-30 2011 US News Predicitons Forum

[weee]

[strike]ITT[/strike] In over half the threads on this site: people waste their time and no knowledge is gained.

[danquayle]

I predict IU-Bloomington will rise. They have paid dearly to encourage students to go there. Full rides, well into $100,000 per student. Hard to resist I am sure.

You couldn't pay me 100k, hell, even 200k or 250k to move to Indiana for what could very well be a large chunk of my career and life. Believe me, they tried and it didn't work.

I think there's a sizable amount of people who feel similarly.

Just out curiosity... where have you been in Indiana?

[jstn1104]

I predict IU-Bloomington will rise. They have paid dearly to encourage students to go there. Full rides, well into $100,000 per student. Hard to resist I am sure.

You couldn't pay me 100k, hell, even 200k or 250k to move to Indiana for what could very well be a large chunk of my career and life. Believe me, they tried and it didn't work.

I think there's a sizable amount of people who feel similarly.

Ha! I totally agree. Indiana is probably the most unlikable state I've ever spent time in.

[JCougar]

I predict IU-Bloomington will rise. They have paid dearly to encourage students to go there. Full rides, well into $100,000 per student. Hard to resist I am sure.

Rise? They rose 13 spots last year because of a one-time donation that will not be occurring again. It's almost certain they will bounce back...the only question is how much. A lot of their competitors offer full rides to much better students.

And from the looks of their LSN profile, their LSAT median isn't going to be going up this year anyways. At least they're not admitting absolutely everyone above a 164 this year, and are trying to be a little more selective.

[danquayle]

I predict IU-Bloomington will rise. They have paid dearly to encourage students to go there. Full rides, well into $100,000 per student. Hard to resist I am sure.

Rise? They rose 13 spots last year because of a one-time donation that will not be occurring again. It's almost certain they will bounce back...the only question is how much. A lot of their competitors offer full rides to much better students.

And from the looks of their LSN profile, their LSAT median isn't going to be going up this year anyways. At least they're not admitting absolutely everyone above a 164 this year, and are trying to be a little more selective.

People keep saying they rose because of the one time donation. How do you think that actually caused the increase? The real effects of that money are only taking hold now as they dish out massive scholarships and hire new faculty.

What metric do you suppose rose so dramatically as a result of the donation in the 4 months it was given and the release of the new rankings. The only one I can figure is the expenditure per student, but even that's limited to what they can do in 4 months. Its not like they were paying janitors 6 times as much money.

The rankings rise had very little to do with the Maurer donation. It was just good synergy. It may have been partially related the Eli Lilly donation of 25 million, which occurred the previous year. But for the most part, it just had to do with Indiana's effectively gaming the system. And hey, you play the game you're given.

[JCougar]

I predict IU-Bloomington will rise. They have paid dearly to encourage students to go there. Full rides, well into $100,000 per student. Hard to resist I am sure.

Rise? They rose 13 spots last year because of a one-time donation that will not be occurring again. It's almost certain they will bounce back...the only question is how much. A lot of their competitors offer full rides to much better students.

And from the looks of their LSN profile, their LSAT median isn't going to be going up this year anyways. At least they're not admitting absolutely everyone above a 164 this year, and are trying to be a little more selective.

People keep saying they rose because of the one time donation. How do you think that actually caused the increase? The real effects of that money are only taking hold now as they dish out massive scholarships and hire new faculty.

What metric do you suppose rose so dramatically as a result of the donation in the 4 months it was given and the release of the new rankings. The only one I can figure is the expenditure per student, but even that's limited to what they can do in 4 months. Its not like they were paying janitors 6 times as much money.

The rankings rise had very little to do with the Maurer donation. It was just good synergy. It may have been partially related the Eli Lilly donation of 25 million, which occurred the previous year. But for the most part, it just had to do with Indiana's effectively gaming the system. And hey, you play the game you're given.

Variations in the expenditure per student category can actually give you a fairly sizable boost. The category is weighted nearly as much as undergrad GPA. If that number spikes up, you could see a dramatic improvement. What else would have caused their sudden rise? Their LSAT median hasn't moved up more than a point in the last five years, their GPA numbers are among the worst of their peers (and so are their LSAT numbers, for that matter). Maybe all the money gave them a quick reputation boost, but I still don't see what else it might have been.

IU-Bloomington is not a bad school, it just doesn't have the markings of a top 30 school. It probably belongs in the mid-30s somewhere. The Maurer money and the Lilly money definitely mean good things for the school's future, too. The rise is not due to their gaming the system. They were gaming the system in the years before, and all their peers are also gaming the system in the exact same way. Check out Minnesota, WUSTL, Illinois, Emory, W&L, George Washington, etc. They all game the same system in the same way, and have much better numbers to show for it. In 5+ years, maybe they will be able to be a top 25 regular, but for now and the near future, their class profile and employment prospects simply don't compete with their new peers.

[jay115]

all i'm saying is that the number of elite law schools in the country with national reach is 14. it doesn't matter where us news ranks the schools in any particular year. thus, if ucla/texas/vandy make it into the "t-14", it won't matter to anyone except those who live and die by the us news rankings. if georgetown or Princeton Law falls to 15 or 16, it will still be a more prestigious school than ucla/texas/vandy.

I dont think you can argue that the reputation as a T13 school and lay reputation aren't interconnected. The reason USWNR is as influential as it is in regards to law schools because its essentially the only game in town and to some degree fosters lawl skool reputation/prestige. The same can't be said of business schools because there are several different prestigious business school rankings - USWNR lawl skool rankings overshadows Cooley/superlawyers/princeton/whatever else lawl skool ranking.

Why else would law schools tailor the way they function and operate to fit USWNR measurement criteria? I'm guessing it's not just for shits and giggles.

Maybe because employers don't really look at annual rankings? A lot of employers still think schools are ranked wherever they were when they went to school there. Contrary to what you guys may think, employers, unlike TLSers don't obsess over rankings. And if they were planning on going to OCI at X school, they are probably going to go to the school regardless of its rank in that year.

Not shitting you when I say that my 2L friend who went through OCI had an employer ask him what the current ranking is for our school. I don't think this employer has looked at the rankings for over 10 years.

As for secondary markets, they care even less about rankings than biglaw employers in primary markets. Some know what the top schools are, but I doubt they know what the "mini-tiers" are in the top 14.

i was wondering what had happened to all the strange post edits, but one of the mods must be on a rampage to try and institute tier thirteen vs tier fourteen distinction.

Whether employers value the USWNR rankings is marginally relevant to our discussion - in fact, our discussion is actually not on whether going to a tier fourteen vs non-tier fourteen school has any impact on exit employment options. It's rather on whether or not it's plausible tier eighteen schools will break into the tier fourteen sooner or later.

[fancifulthings]

So about what, 14 days till this nonsense speculation stops?

[legalease9]

So about what, 14 days till this nonsense speculation stops?

More like 13 days 14 hours, 56 minutes, and 59 seconds.

[acstas87]

what's the legitimate probability of W&L holding a place T30? I'm kind of concerned about this.

+1

It was in the top 20 just a few years ago.

This is a concern for myself as well. They will likely fix their high acceptance rate through the elimination of the application fee but I don't want to commit to place that is on the decline.

Fortunately they pushed back their scholly deposit date to the 15th so I guess we'll find out before we have to commit.

[irish017]

15. UCLA
16. Texas
17. Vanderbilt
18. USC
19. Emory
20. WashU
21. Notre Dame
22. BU
23. Minnesota
24. BC
25. Illinois
26. Indiana
27. GWU
28. Fordham
29. Iowa
30. St. John's


see what i did?

Blatant pro Queens bias.

[mavsman88]

Are these going to be leaked again this year? Its getting down to crunch time with no word of anyone having any access to an early copy.

[legalease9]

Are these going to be leaked again this year? Its getting down to crunch time with no word of anyone having any access to an early copy.

They aren't going to be leaked because they are coming out online before they come out in print. There print edition won't sell much, but it won't be leaked before they release it on the web.

[acstas87]

what's the legitimate probability of W&L holding a place T30? I'm kind of concerned about this.

+1

It was in the top 20 just a few years ago.

This is a concern for myself as well. They will likely fix their high acceptance rate through the elimination of the application fee but I don't want to commit to place that is on the decline.

Fortunately they pushed back their scholly deposit date to the 15th so I guess we'll find out before we have to commit.

+1

I want to see them arrest the slide as well before putting down the kind of cash they want on a deposit.

[swc65]

No leaks (plausible leaks anyway) yet? Sheesh whose cousin works at a USNEWS mag. distributor?

[Speedzie]

I'll be optimistic: No drop for Illinois.

Current 1Ls have a median GPA of 3.8 vs. 3.6 for the 2Ls. Also, Dean Smith (our new dean) = awesome.

edit: Vindicated!

[pjo]

Are these going to be leaked again this year? Its getting down to crunch time with no word of anyone having any access to an early copy.

They aren't going to be leaked because they are coming out online before they come out in print. There print edition won't sell much, but it won't be leaked before they release it on the web.

where did you hear this? according to USNEWS the come out Online on the 15th and in print on the 27th

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/college-ran ... -soon.html

[traehekat]

NOT THAT THIS WOULD INFLUENCE MY DECISION OR ANYTHING BUT...

... what are the chances that Wake Forest moves up in the rankings? They are currently below their "average" rank of about 37.67, and they beefed up their clinical program.