The fundamental problem with 0L's. Forum

[rad lulz]

Anyone able to give a summary of lit similar to the one that TSL gave of corporate?

Receive complaint

Be like "this is bullshit they didn't state a claim I don't think these duties they alleged wrt the investment even exist" or whatevr

Do research and draft memo re those duties

Help draft motion to dismiss then reply to Ps response

Claim survives, rabble rabble

Draft discovery junk like requests for production and subpoenas and rogs

Bicker about P not producing you stuff. Bicker about you not wanting to produce stuff to P. Motions to compel

Review discovery (doc review)

Move for summary judgment. Help draft the thing and they reply to Ps response

Probably settle if you haven't done so already

Trial is probs not gonna happen

[ggocat]

The deals and cases are legitimately gigantic and important

You're transactional, right? Speaking as someone whose only experience with biglaw was a summer stint in litigation (and being a law clerk for cases handled by biglaw), most litigation matters seem very unimportant. If I have to work another mass tort insurance dispute, shoot me.

[Mal Reynolds]

Anyone able to give a summary of lit similar to the one that TSL gave of corporate?

Receive complaint

Be like "this is bullshit they didn't state a claim I don't think these duties they alleged wrt the investment even exist" or whatevr

Do research and draft memo re those duties

Help draft motion to dismiss then reply to Ps response

Claim survives, rabble rabble

Draft discovery junk like requests for production and subpoenas and rogs

Bicker about P not producing you stuff. Bicker about you not wanting to produce stuff to P. Motions to compel

Review discovery (doc review)

Move for summary judgment. Help draft the thing and they reply to Ps response

Probably settle if you haven't done so already

Trial is probs not gonna happen

I laughed throughout this post but then realized it's also probably reality.

[jbagelboy]

Anyone able to give a summary of lit similar to the one that TSL gave of corporate?

Receive complaint

Be like "this is bullshit they didn't state a claim I don't think these duties they alleged wrt the investment even exist" or whatevr

Do research and draft memo re those duties

Help draft motion to dismiss then reply to Ps response

Claim survives, rabble rabble

Draft discovery junk like requests for production and subpoenas and rogs

Bicker about P not producing you stuff. Bicker about you not wanting to produce stuff to P. Motions to compel

Review discovery (doc review)

Move for summary judgment. Help draft the thing and they reply to Ps response

Probably settle if you haven't done so already

Trial is probs not gonna happen

I laughed throughout this post but then realized it's also probably reality.

Why did we sit thru months of civil procedure..? through in R56 and it's basically this ^

(and the jurisdictional/choice of law stuff, but who cares about that)

[ggocat]

Anyone able to give a summary of lit similar to the one that TSL gave of corporate?

Receive complaint

Be like "this is bullshit they didn't state a claim I don't think these duties they alleged wrt the investment even exist" or whatevr

Do research and draft memo re those duties

Help draft motion to dismiss then reply to Ps response

Claim survives, rabble rabble

Draft discovery junk like requests for production and subpoenas and rogs

Bicker about P not producing you stuff. Bicker about you not wanting to produce stuff to P. Motions to compel

Review discovery (doc review)

Move for summary judgment. Help draft the thing and they reply to Ps response

Probably settle if you haven't done so already

Trial is probs not gonna happen

Awesome.

[thesealocust]

The deals and cases are legitimately gigantic and important

You're transactional, right? Speaking as someone whose only experience with biglaw was a summer stint in litigation (and being a law clerk for cases handled by biglaw), most litigation matters seem very unimportant. If I have to work another mass tort insurance dispute, shoot me.

NB: Importance is governed exclusively by the number of zeroes following the dollar sign.

[spleenworship]

Anyone able to give a summary of lit similar to the one that TSL gave of corporate?

Receive complaint

Be like "this is bullshit they didn't state a claim I don't think these duties they alleged wrt the investment even exist" or whatevr

Do research and draft memo re those duties

Help draft motion to dismiss then reply to Ps response

Claim survives, rabble rabble

Draft discovery junk like requests for production and subpoenas and rogs

Bicker about P not producing you stuff. Bicker about you not wanting to produce stuff to P. Motions to compel

Review discovery (doc review)

Move for summary judgment. Help draft the thing and they reply to Ps response

Probably settle if you haven't done so already

Trial is probs not gonna happen

I laughed throughout this post but then realized it's also probably reality.

This is actually really similar to small firm plaintiffs work.

[banjo]

Anyone able to give a summary of lit similar to the one that TSL gave of corporate?

Receive complaint

Be like "this is bullshit they didn't state a claim I don't think these duties they alleged wrt the investment even exist" or whatevr

Do research and draft memo re those duties

Help draft motion to dismiss then reply to Ps response

Claim survives, rabble rabble

Draft discovery junk like requests for production and subpoenas and rogs

Bicker about P not producing you stuff. Bicker about you not wanting to produce stuff to P. Motions to compel

Review discovery (doc review)

Move for summary judgment. Help draft the thing and they reply to Ps response

Probably settle if you haven't done so already

Trial is probs not gonna happen

Wow I actually know what all this stuff is. Can someone do this for M&A or RE finance or another corporate-y area?

[rad lulz]

Anyone able to give a summary of lit similar to the one that TSL gave of corporate?

Receive complaint

Be like "this is bullshit they didn't state a claim I don't think these duties they alleged wrt the investment even exist" or whatevr

Do research and draft memo re those duties

Help draft motion to dismiss then reply to Ps response

Claim survives, rabble rabble

Draft discovery junk like requests for production and subpoenas and rogs

Bicker about P not producing you stuff. Bicker about you not wanting to produce stuff to P. Motions to compel

Review discovery (doc review)

Move for summary judgment. Help draft the thing and they reply to Ps response

Probably settle if you haven't done so already

Trial is probs not gonna happen

Wow I actually know what all this stuff is. Can someone do this for M&A or RE finance or another corporate-y area?

Not surprised you do bc 1L year actually tells you the process behind litigation


The rules of civ pro drive most of what I do and they apply to all lit

[withoutapaddle]

Can someone explain how you get pushed out of big law after three years?

Like do you f up or laid off?

[Pneumonia]

Can someone explain how you get pushed out of big law after three years?

Like do you f up or laid off?

What most ITT thread have been saying is that it's much much more common for people to leave of their own accord by/at year 3 then to be asked to look for another position.

[bk1]

Pneumonia is right, but I understand why you're asking the question (because ray said "leave or pushed out"). It is rare for people to be pushed out in 3 years or less. I can only really see that sort of thing happening consistently if the firm isn't financially healthy or the practice group you work in is quite slow.

[Pneumonia]

Since there is such a high concentration of older posters ITT thread at present I have a question that I haven't seen answered:

Are work and practice group assignments really random? Like surely there is some work that is less shitty than other work, and I would guess that the people assigning it are aware of that. What determines who gets assigned what and where? Is it really random?

Is there a "less shitty" track for junior associates who the firm likes or do they just not make any distinctions at any point before it comes time to move people up?

[spleenworship]

Re: being pushed out - I've heard from credible sources at 50 - 75 lawyer firms (my region's equivalent of biglaw) that sometimes, about once every three or four years, they'll hire someone who doesn't go looking for work when they aren't busy and ends up getting fired because they didn't make billables. But that seems to be the exception (these firms generally hire 2 - 4 associates a year).


They said that a few years ago they hired one guy who just came in and sat at his desk every day surfing facebook or whatever for like 3 months doing absolutely no billables because the partner who showed him around the first day did another kind of work and the area he was supposed to practice in didn't realize he was there to work with them. Everyone assumed this guy was working for someone else. Dude pulled in like $20k for driving to work and sittin in an office all day before they fired him.

[bk1]

Are work and practice group assignments really random? Like surely there is some work that is less shitty than other work, and I would guess that the people assigning it are aware of that. What determines who gets assigned what and where? Is it really random?

Practice group assignments aren't random (depending on the firm you might ask to be assigned to a group, you might apply to a group, you might try during your summer to work with people in the group you want, etc), but there isn't necessarily a guarantee you will get what you want (exceptions exist of course such as at firms where you can apply to specific groups during the OCI process or where your credentials/experience make you a good fit for a group and that makes the group really want you).

Work assignment isn't random but again the issue is that the junior associate doesn't necessarily have a ton of control over it. For example, the work that a given litigation case needs can vary dramatically. Maybe the case has dozens of depos and thus one or a few get assigned to you as a junior associate. Maybe the case has no depos and just crap tons of doc review that you get stuck on for months on end. As a junior you're not really going to be able to predict what kind of work will be required for a case even if you are able to choose which partners/senior associates you are working with (which isn't always possible depending on how the firm is structured).

The key issue is that these things aren't random but as an associate you don't necessarily have a ton of control over them (though sometimes you may have some control).

[Pneumonia]

Thanks bk that helps. I guess what I'm wondering about is whether or not certain juniors are "selected" for good projects and what goes into that selection. Clearly its not something that they have any direct control over, but I read in another thread recently that some people are just intentionally assigned better work from the beginning and that school prestige and other factors can play a role in that. I guess what I'm wondering is whether there is any truth to this.

[bk1]

Thanks bk that helps. I guess what I'm wondering about is whether or not certain juniors are "selected" for good projects and what goes into that selection. Clearly its not something that they have any direct control over, but I read in another thread recently that some people are just intentionally assigned better work from the beginning and that school prestige and other factors can play a role in that. I guess what I'm wondering is whether there is any truth to this.

It's true that some people will get an in with a senior associate or partner and get better work. That said, I think (and could easily be wrong so actual biglaw people feel free to correct me) that what you get assigned has more to do with the person assigning than the relationship you have with them (e.g. an assigning associate may just always dump crap on those below him/her rather than caring about the professional development of the person they are assigning work to). And as noted above, the work you get assigned often has a lot to do with the case/deal.

[rayiner]

Thanks bk that helps. I guess what I'm wondering about is whether or not certain juniors are "selected" for good projects and what goes into that selection. Clearly its not something that the dirlanguagrr, but I read in another thread recently that some people are just intentionally assigned better work from the beginning and that school prestige and other factors can play a role in that. I guess what I'm wondering is whether there is any truth to this.

No, I was something a 0L said who has never worked at a law firm. There are two primary models for assigning work to junior associates. Some firms have an assignment coordinator that staffs cases by law looking at people's availability (based on periodic availability reports you submit). Others are free market and have you go to partners for work.

As far as partners are concerned, the 100+ first years are completely fungible. In a free market system, your ability to go badger partners from work will matter, but other than that nobody really differentiates. The exception is if you have a specific background or language skill.

[paulinaporizkova]

Also just to chime in: if you have any mental health issues before entering law school (depression, anxiety, tendency to abuse substances, etc.) law school and legal practice will seriously aggravate what might have been a manageable issue before. It can be a huge unforeseen consequence, even when you have your grades and your biglaw gig lined up and the whole bit just like everyone wants when they start out in school.

I think this is a really important consideration when figuring out your school/career goals, and not enough people talk about it around here.

[HRomanus]

Rookie question: I enjoy watching Suits solely as a drama, but how realistic is their work product? For example, the associates seem to work on both litigational and transactional law assignments. One week they are drafting motions to dismiss and the other they are working on a corporate merger. Is this normal or would you specialize in one area?

[bk1]

Rookie question: I enjoy watching Suits solely as a drama, but how realistic is their work product? For example, the associates seem to work on both litigational and transactional law assignments. One week they are drafting motions to dismiss and the other they are working on a corporate merger. Is this normal or would you specialize in one area?

No you would not work in both litigational and transactional in today's biglaw (there might be some minor exceptions I can't think of right now for certain types of attorneys such as employment/IP but even most of these people have specialized in either lit or trans).

[kalvano]

Rookie question: I enjoy watching Suits solely as a drama, but how realistic is their work product? For example, the associates seem to work on both litigational and transactional law assignments. One week they are drafting motions to dismiss and the other they are working on a corporate merger. Is this normal or would you specialize in one area?

It's fiction. Total fiction.

[nouseforaname123]

Thanks bk that helps. I guess what I'm wondering about is whether or not certain juniors are "selected" for good projects and what goes into that selection. Clearly its not something that the dirlanguagrr, but I read in another thread recently that some people are just intentionally assigned better work from the beginning and that school prestige and other factors can play a role in that. I guess what I'm wondering is whether there is any truth to this.

No, I was something a 0L said who has never worked at a law firm. There are two primary models for assigning work to junior associates. Some firms have an assignment coordinator that staffs cases by law looking at people's availability (based on periodic availability reports you submit). Others are free market and have you go to partners for work.

As far as partners are concerned, the 100+ first years are completely fungible. In a free market system, your ability to go badger partners from work will matter, but other than that nobody really differentiates. The exception is if you have a specific background or language skill.

You may be too cavalier about the importance of work allocation systems. IME, in a free market system, first years become part of deal/lit teams early on as they form relationships with seniors and partners. Don't get me wrong, free market comes with its own set of problems. This also isn't to say that certain first years get good or bad projects in a free market system, only that they'll get specific types of projects. Also, this probably matters more in corporate as opposed to lit.

[nouseforaname123]

Rookie question: I enjoy watching Suits solely as a drama, but how realistic is their work product? For example, the associates seem to work on both litigational and transactional law assignments. One week they are drafting motions to dismiss and the other they are working on a corporate merger. Is this normal or would you specialize in one area?

No you would not work in both litigational and transactional in today's biglaw (there might be some minor exceptions I can't think of right now for certain types of attorneys such as employment/IP but even most of these people have specialized in either lit or trans).

Bankruptcy allows attorneys to claim to do both lit and trans work, but I can't think of any other examples.

[IAFG]

Rookie question: I enjoy watching Suits solely as a drama, but how realistic is their work product? For example, the associates seem to work on both litigational and transactional law assignments. One week they are drafting motions to dismiss and the other they are working on a corporate merger. Is this normal or would you specialize in one area?

No you would not work in both litigational and transactional in today's biglaw (there might be some minor exceptions I can't think of right now for certain types of attorneys such as employment/IP but even most of these people have specialized in either lit or trans).

Bankruptcy allows attorneys to claim to do both lit and trans work, but I can't think of any other examples.

It's a weird version of lit and a weird version of trans tho.